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hassan Ibn Sabbah (old man of the mountain)

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posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 11:10 AM
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This is my first post as the first one I made was done before so it was taken off. I searched the site to see if anything was on about Hassan ibn Sabbah but only found him on threads about who’s the best leader, and about the number of degrees his ‘religion’ has, and so on and so forth. Here’s the site for this www.alamut.com...
Now for how this man came into power will be written below. Yes the game is based on this real organisation that existed back then and still do as Ismailis.
And for those who disagree about the saying its
'Nothing is Forbidden, Everything is Permitted'
not
'Nothing is Real, Everything is Permitted'
It is a subtle difference, but so much is based upon subtlety." - Terezakis.
For those who played assassins creed 1, Altair and his colleagues say this quote throughout the game. And remember the first part where the fortress is being invaded but the crusaders fail to seige it, the fort is on a mountain and the leader, forgot his name always stands by the table which the area is raised by 2-3 inches from the ground and is always staring at the sun. Well from what you will read from below, everything fits in. Remember the back garden in the game, well that’s where the ‘drugged’ assassins used to hang about in real life in ‘paradise’.
Now I will begin.
Two men in the year 1092 stood on the ramparts of a medieval castle - the Eagle's Nest - perched high upon the crags of the Persian mountains: the personal representative of the Emperor and the veiled figure who claimed to be the incarnation of God on earth. Hasan, son of Sabah, Sheikh of the Mountains and leader of the Assassins, spoke: "You see that devotee standing guard on yonder turret-top? Watch!"
He made a signal. Instantly the white-robed figure threw up his hands in salutation, and cast himself two thousand feet into the foaming torrent which surrounded the fortress.
"I have seventy thousand men - and women - throughout Asia, each one of them ready to do my bidding. Can your master, Malik Shah, say the same? And he asks me to surrender to his sovereignty! This is your answer. Go!"
Such a scene may be worthy of the most exaggerated of horror films. And yet it took place in historical fact. The only quibble made by the chronicler of the time was that Hasan's devotees numbered "only about forty thousand." How this man Sabah came by his uncanny power, and how his devotees struck terror into the hearts of men from the Caspian to Egypt, is one of the most extraordinary of all tales of secret societies. Today, the sect of the Hashishin (druggers) still exists in the form of the Ismailis (Ishmaelites), whose undisputed chief, endowed by them with divine attributes, is the Aga Khan.
Like many another secret cult, the Assassin organization was based upon an earlier association. In order to understand how they worked and what their objectives were, we must begin with these roots.
It must be remembered that the followers of Islam in the seventh century A.D. split into two divisions: the orthodox, who regard Mohammed as the bringer of divine inspiration; and the Shiahs, who consider that Ali, his successor, the Fourth Imam (leader), was more important. It is with the Shiahs that we are concerned here.
From the beginning of the split in the early days of Islam, the Shiahs relied for survival upon secrecy, organization and initiation. Although the minority party in Islam, they believed that they could overcome the majority (and eventually the whole world) by superior organization and power.

read the full source to understand more
www.phinnweb.org...
and their latter days
www.phinnweb.org...

From A History of Secret Societies by Arkon Daraul (Citadel Press 1961/1989)

[edit on 30-7-2010 by naeem11111]




posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 12:57 PM
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Originally posted by naeem11111
From A History of Secret Societies by Arkon Daraul (Citadel Press 1961/1989)
One of the first books I ever read about secret societies. To be fair, I haven't read too much about the Assassins from other sources, so I can't say how accurate Daraul is... need to see if I still own a copy so I can re-read it, or buy a used copy on Amazon... they're going from $600 to $1 depending on the seller.



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by naeem11111
It must be remembered that the followers of Islam in the seventh century A.D. split into two divisions: the orthodox, who regard Mohammed as the bringer of divine inspiration; and the Shiahs, who consider that Ali, his successor, the Fourth Imam (leader), was more important. It is with the Shiahs that we are concerned here.
From the beginning of the split in the early days of Islam, the Shiahs relied for survival upon secrecy, organization and initiation. Although the minority party in Islam, they believed that they could overcome the majority (and eventually the whole world) by superior organization and power.


- sunni is not the orthodox branch of islam.
- the shias relied on secrecy as i believe it was due to the fact they were being hunted and killed just becuase of their faith and beliefs.
- the shias dont consider ali more important than muhammed but they believe is the rightful successor
- the difference between sunni and shia comes from hadiths.
- after i've read about the story of islam it has come to my attention that the shias have more truth in their sect, in fact the prophet did say i leave with you 2 thing, the quran and my family. you cannot deny that and that should be enough proof that they are the righteous.

when was the last time a shia wore an explosive belt and killed innocent people?

thank you



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by naeem11111
 


A most absorbing and fascinating topic, the Assassins. The link between them and the Templars is one of the great esoteric legends with substance there is, and has spawned many tales.

Here's an article for you on this subject:

Historynet.com: Holy Terror: The Rise of the Order of Assassins

Here's two books I've yet to read, the first very expensive to buy right now:

Gigapedia: The Order of Assassins - Marshall G.S. Hodgson

Sendspace: The History of the Assassins - Joseph von Hammer



posted on Jul, 31 2010 @ 07:24 AM
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reply to post by Extant Taxon
 


thanks i will check it out



posted on Jul, 31 2010 @ 07:36 AM
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reply to post by RizeorDie
 


sunni is not the orthodox branch of islam. I know just one of the two main branches

the shias relied on secrecy as i believe it was due to the fact they were being hunted and killed just becuase of their faith and beliefs. true as they were much lower in number and still are.

the shias dont consider ali more important than muhammed but they believe is the rightful successor. they believe Ali should have been the first caliph but Muhammed towards the end of his life made certain hints he wanted Abu bakr as his sucessor, such as leading prayer instead of himself when he was too weak etc and Ali accpeted anyway. whats done is done.

the difference between sunni and shia comes from hadiths.
you mean beliefs.

after i've read about the story of islam it has come to my attention that the shias have more truth in their sect, in fact the prophet did say i leave with you 2 thing, the quran and my family. nope he, said the quran and hadith and he didnt prefer family members to inherit posts, generation after generation, more towards those who had talent in those areas. not family but talent.

you cannot deny that and that should be enough proof that they are the righteous. righteous? they wip themselves (torture themselves) not all, most do because they believe it was their fault that hassan and hussain, ali's sons died and so blame themselves. is that righteous. no.

when was the last time a shia wore an explosive belt and killed innocent people? err hezbullah the last time I remember, well atleast they are making an effort to stop the ptb



posted on Jul, 31 2010 @ 08:31 AM
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reply to post by naeem11111
 


yes naeem you are very correct...i have read the book the gods of eden and it discusses about the topic of ismaili assassins so the that could be something worth looking into...i am shia muslim and everything naeem11111 says is correct because i have researched into the differences between sunni and shia islam and the fact of the matter is that the word shia is mentioned in the Quran many times and sunni hasn't been mentioned once there



posted on Aug, 22 2010 @ 11:54 AM
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Originally posted by shayanmh
reply to post by naeem11111
 


i have researched into the differences between sunni and shia islam and the fact of the matter is that the word shia is mentioned in the Quran many times and sunni hasn't been mentioned once there


It doesn't mean that if a word is mentioned in the Koran and the other hasn't, it means its the truth and the latter is false. Do you know the real reason why Islam split in to two groups, straight after the prophets death?



posted on Sep, 4 2010 @ 03:00 PM
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The Vatican created Islam in order to unite Middle Easterners into one religion (mostly for social structure, and to serve as a militant arm of the Catholic Church). The Shia system wasn't suitable for their purposes, so they simply created a new system. The Catholic Church split from the early Christians for the same reason.



posted on Oct, 27 2010 @ 11:08 PM
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Ahhhh I have to say the assassin's are wildly interesting to me, for many reasons I wish not to say.


But if you are interested in a good read that is very ...stimulating ... check out Alamut by Vladimir Bartol

In my opinion it is the best book ever written in the 20th century..



posted on Nov, 9 2010 @ 11:20 AM
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reply to post by fordrew
 

That's an interesting view, why is this book the greatest book of the 20th century? In your opinion?

and now for everything else.

Also in reference to the Hashashim being druggists, that's not necessarily true. In fact there's a large chance Hassan was anti intoxicant, you can come to your own conclusions considering he murdered his own son for drinking alcohol.

1. Why kill your son for having a drink if everyones a druggist?

2. Stoners are sort of lazy and would probably not be great at assassinations. Apart from their couches of course.

In fact the garden was attributed to one story, it might be true, it might not be true AC the video game is based on popular myth, not necessarily how things went down. In fact, most of the stuff surrounding these people is myth, loads of fact checking to be done.



posted on Nov, 10 2010 @ 09:48 PM
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reply to post by ShadowScholar
 


It is simply because of the powerful philosophy presented in the book, and the absolutely tantalizing myths/tales of Hassan Ibn Sabbah.

Simply because the truth is unknowable.

I can go on and on about this book it brings me down to a personal level, about how people choose to believe in fairy tales instead of listening to the truth.



posted on Nov, 11 2010 @ 12:34 AM
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reply to post by fordrew
 


Sounds like my kind of book, I'll have to check it out.

I love the fantasy of all these conspiracies, but at the end of the day the most boring and logical explanations are often the most true, bit of a shame really.




posted on Nov, 11 2010 @ 08:12 AM
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Originally posted by ShadowScholar
reply to post by fordrew
 


Sounds like my kind of book, I'll have to check it out.

I love the fantasy of all these conspiracies, but at the end of the day the most boring and logical explanations are often the most true, bit of a shame really.



www.amazon.com...=dp_proddesc_0?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books

Read a review or two before you check into it, some parts of the book were slow to say the least. But I mean there are usually slow parts in books. You may also need at least know quite a bit about Islam too, and I found myself looking up many of the terms just because I was wildly interested.
edit on 11-11-2010 by fordrew because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2010 @ 10:57 PM
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reply to post by fordrew
 


After reading 'The New Knighthood' by Malcolm Barber, i could never consider another book slow in my life


It's an overly complete history of the knights templar, names, dates places, marriages, land titles. Sheer overload of info.

I am a nut for this period in time and am fairly familiar with Islam, so I'll definitely give it a go!

I wonder if anyone will ever again try this man of the mountain ploy, Bin Laden has come pretty close in many ways. 100 virgins, suicide attacks, lives in the mountains.

The new Hassan ibn Sabbah perhaps, sort of gives you an idea of the terror the real Hassan would've created back in the day and the feelings of the time.



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by fordrew
 


Thanks, I will be checking it out.



posted on Feb, 14 2011 @ 09:41 PM
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ever wonder where the term "if your buddy / if the president / if the church tells you to go jump off a bridge would you?" comes from??

It comes from the legend of the assassins.

ever wonder where the term "you will receive 99 virgins in heaven if you blow yourself up" comes from?

It comes partially from the Koran and the legend of the assassins.


the legend of the assassins, whether or not it be true, teaches a very valuable lesson which will become very clear if you read Alamut or if you read anything about the legends.



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 08:56 AM
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They struck fear into the hearts of all Muslim leaders, orthodox Shia and Sunni alike. There was NO ONE they couldn't touch.

I am not as well versed in this history as others on this website obviously, butt it was my understanding that the Old Man and his fanatical followers were of the ancient Pagan OLD SCHOOL and only looked and appeared as though they were normal Muslims. Is this completley false ?

I always wondered why Alamut was eventually overrun and sacked by Khans. Even though that is the case, wouldn't there have been secret assassins hiding elsewhere ?

Then again I suppose the Thuggee were brought down by a single British journalist, so anythings possible.
edit on 22-2-2011 by WormTyrant because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 22 2011 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by WormTyrant They struck fear into the hearts of all Muslim leaders, orthodox Shia and Sunni alike. There was NO ONE they couldn't touch.


Pretty much, in return for 'heaven.'



I am not as well versed in this history as others on this website obviously, butt it was my understanding that the Old Man and his fanatical followers were of the ancient Pagan OLD SCHOOL and only looked and appeared as though they were normal Muslims. Is this completley false ?


No its true. He starts his teachings in Egypt first but was then kicked out, but gradually through cunning he 'purchases' one fortress after another.




I always wondered why Alamut was eventually overrun and sacked by Khans. Even though that is the case, wouldn't there have been secret assassins hiding elsewhere ?


Yes, looking at it today its quite a trek but the Mongolians were good at seiging cities and also the leadership wasn't as good during Hasan's days. The assassins went underground and people then just started hiring them for their own purposes, kind of like a medieval hitman.

-Naeem




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