PLZ READ OP FIRST! The Atheist Delusion, page 3
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reply posted on 30-7-2010 @ 04:14 AM by IamBoon
reply to post by Amagnon


Don't flatter yourself. This isn't a vs thread either. I am an ATheist and I am attacking certain irrational ideologies ATHEISTS hold.


Instead of playing referee maybe you should read the post first.


reply posted on 30-7-2010 @ 04:17 AM by ChickenPie
Originally posted by Mike_A
reply to post by ChickenPie


Lack of empirical evidence can only bring you so far as to say that the probability of God existing is slim, but you cannot know God does not exist from that alone. So, if you don't know God does not exist, then that means you believe He doesn't exist.


Eh? If I don’t know something does not exist then I believe that it doesn’t exist? You’ve lost me.


That's because you don't know what atheism is... evidently. If the definition of an atheist is somebody who doesn't know if God exists, then that means everyone is an atheist.

[edit on 30-7-2010 by ChickenPie]


reply posted on 30-7-2010 @ 04:21 AM by IamBoon
Originally posted by -PLB-
Originally posted by IamBoon
reply to post by Mike_A


I cannot make it any simpler than this seeing as the original and subsequent posts were to complicated for you.

Most argument Atheists use can also be used by THeists. THis IS because of the subject. Watch.


THere is no empirical data proving god.
THere is no empirical data Disproving god.

Atheism is a lack of belief in god(s) existence.
Theism is a lack of belief in god(s) nonexistence.


See? Does that make Theism a non belief? NO. It is a flawed argument that Atheists use to make themselves seem superior. It is egotistical garbage.

Your "lack of belief" argument holds no water on the subject of existence. And admitting to there being a possibility of an object without 100% certainty is a belief also. ugh And I thought Christians were thick headed about certain dogmas.


You forget:

(Negative explicit) Atheism is a lack of belief god(s) do not exist.
Theism is the belief in god(s).


And exactly this makes one a belief and the other not.


YOu should try understanding instead of ignoring the point. I will show you again. Using your own argument.


(Negative explicit) theism is a lack of belief that god(s) do not exist.
Atheism is the belief in no god(s).


And exactly this makes one a belief and the other not.



reply posted on 30-7-2010 @ 04:22 AM by randyvs
reply to post by IamBoon




Instead of playing referee maybe you should read the post first.


You can't come into a thread and know what's going on just because you have a buz on. You still have to read. Boon it seems is taking the devils advocate here for the moment. OP has offered a point that I have seen no worthy argument against as of yet.

[edit on 30-7-2010 by randyvs]


reply posted on 30-7-2010 @ 04:24 AM by -PLB-
reply to post by IamBoon


Well as you can read in my post above, this just doesn't not make any sense, as I explain in the first paragraph.


reply posted on 30-7-2010 @ 04:25 AM by -PLB-
reply to post by ChickenPie


Wrong, I don't believe god(s) exists, and I also don't believe god(s) don't exist.



reply posted on 30-7-2010 @ 04:28 AM by ChickenPie
Originally posted by -PLB-
reply to post by ChickenPie


Wrong, I don't believe god(s) exists, and I also don't believe god(s) don't exist.


You say I'm wrong without giving reasons why I am wrong. What I'm saying is quite simple and logical.

You do not have certain knowledge that God does not exist. What you do have is reason to believe God does not exist--the reason being lack of evidence. But that alone is not certain knowledge. Now, if you do not have certain knowledge that God does not exist, then your conclusion that God does not exist is a belief.

Allow me to iterate: if you do not know, then you believe.

[edit on 30-7-2010 by ChickenPie]


reply posted on 30-7-2010 @ 04:30 AM by randyvs

Wrong, I don't believe god(s) exists, and I also don't believe god(s) don't exist.
reply to post by -PLB-


This isn't going to be that, good shoulder, bad shoulder, routine is it?

[edit on 30-7-2010 by randyvs]


reply posted on 30-7-2010 @ 04:32 AM by IamBoon
reply to post by ChickenPie

Exactly man. It is such a simple concept that I am amazed anyone can remain ignorant to it.

And what is funnier , is that the "rational , logical and evidence based "Atheists are showing the validity of the first point I made in the OP! LMAO!



reply posted on 30-7-2010 @ 04:35 AM by Mike_A
reply to post by IamBoon


Your OP wasn’t complicated it was just wrong, I know what you are saying I just disagree. Let’s not get pissy because someone doesn’t find your logic to be all that logical.

THere is no empirical data proving god.
THere is no empirical data Disproving god.


How does either argument make the lack of belief in a god or gods itself into a belief?

Nevertheless, there not being any empirical data proving god is reason to take the position of none belief but there not being any data disproving god is not reason to take the position of belief and leads to many logical problems.

If I use the former argument then I must naturally reject anything that equally shares a lack of evidence. That’s easy to do, nothing I believe or know conflicts with that principle.

However taking the latter argument I would have to accept anything that equally cannot be disproved. This inevitably leads to huge numbers of contradictions; I would have to accept the existence of everything from Santa to pink unicorns to aliens to just about anything else. Thus the latter is not a logical theistic argument


Atheism is a lack of belief in god(s) existence.
Theism is a lack of belief in god(s) nonexistence.


But theism is not the lack of belief in a god’s nonexistence. It just isn’t, the lack of belief in a god’s nonexistence is (weak) atheism or agnosticism. Theism is the positive belief in one or more gods. You can’t change that to win an argument. Saying “I don’t believe that god doesn’t exist” is not the same as saying “I believe god exists”.

Your "lack of belief" argument holds no water on the subject of existence


It doesn’t intend to; I am not arguing that there are no gods or that there is a reason to believe that there are no gods I am arguing against the notion that atheism is itself a belief.

And admitting to there being a possibility of an object without 100% certainty is a belief also.


Yes but it is a belief that is separate from my lack of belief in a god or gods; it may lead to my atheism but it is not the same thing. Just as my belief that alien life is possible is separate from my lack of belief in alien life.

reply to post by ChickenPie


If the definition of an atheist is somebody who doesn't know if God exists,


It’s not, it is someone who doesn’t believe that god exists.

reply to post by cushycrux


Again it’s not really the topic but as an addendum, killing someone because they have asked you to end their suffering most definitely is done out of love; as would defending a loved one in a violent manner. But that’s for another topic.






[edit on 30-7-2010 by Mike_A]
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