PLZ READ OP FIRST! The Atheist Delusion

THIS IS NOT A VS THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Seeing as I basically made a duplicate thread I still wanted to espouse more on what an Atheist is and isn't.

So now for some misconceptions on what an Atheist will make you.

1.)Atheism makes you smart and means you are brighter than Theists.

This notion is contrived absurdity brought on by the modern Atheistic movement even alluding to Atheists as "brights" . Atheism neither makes someone smart or more rational than a non-Atheist. Many non-Atheists are very smart ... as are many people of every viewpoint. In short , Atheism doesn't make you smarter than anyone else it just makes you an Atheist.

2.) Atheism is not a belief.

This is hotly debated and rightly so. The sad fact is that Atheism is a belief in the nonexistence of theist deities. To illustrate this fact let us look at some examples on what constitutes a belief.

Belief

–noun
1.
something believed; an opinion or conviction: a belief that the earth is flat.
2.
confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof: a statement unworthy of belief.
3.
confidence; faith; trust: a child's belief in his parents.
4.
a religious tenet or tenets; religious creed or faith: the Christian belief.


Based on the above criteria Atheism is indeed a belief. Atheists often use the argument like "Atheism is the lack of belief." or " IS non-belief in Santa Claus a belief also?" And these are pretty good arguments if you consider erroneous assertions good arguments.

It is right to assert that a deity with a certain irrational framework cannot exist. For example , a deity that is all-loving and omnipotent is a logical paradox given the state of our reality and deductive arguments . Rational and empirical data gathered about the world we live in can assert that this god is impossible. However we are not arguing any specific god or deity.

A deity or god as a metaphysical construct cannot be proven nor disproved in the notion that it exists. The chances for a supernatural being or deity existing are 50/50 as the notion is not bound by any argument , rational , or observation of empirical data in our reality such as the Deist deity. So to assert such a being exists or not requires the same leap of faith. Both possibilities being equal. This is why you never hear an Atheist debate a Deist, there is no rational basis to do so as either assertion is equally correct in terms of possibility and logical coherency.

So unless deductive logic , observational coherence,and solid empirical data absolutely rule out a possibility on a subject , any stance on the unproven subject is by definition a belief.

3.) Atheism is rooted in science.

Science involves testable theories, peer review, and evidence based arguments. That should tell you that Atheism is not rooted in science at all by definition. That is like saying theism is rooted in science and we all know that is bad science.

Stay tuned for part 2 in which I try to explain the error in the top arguments theists use against Atheism. I am an Atheist so do not think any of this is biased . That is why I wrote the problem with Atheism first.




[edit on 30-7-2010 by IamBoon]

reply to post by IamBoon

So unless deductive logic , observational coherence,and solid empirical data absolutely rule out a possibility on a subject , any stance on the unproven subject is by definition a belief.

Then it is safe to say Atheism is the belief that God/Gods does/do not exist?

reply to post by randyvs


That's pretty much it! A belief is a belief. Whether it has to do with politics, religion or anything else of that. Faith has more to do with religion I believe.

reply to post by randyvs


THat is the point of me saying that. lol Atheism is a belief.

I typically wouldn't argue this point because it doesn't matter to me, but I don't see how atheism is not a belief.

From what I understand, atheists believe there is no God because there is no empirical evidence for one, at least no empirical evidence that is a blatant sign post pointing to the existence of one. They figure since there is zero empirical evidence, then the chances of a God existing are slim; so, they conclude that one must not exist or probably doesn't exist. But since no man knows with certainty whether or not God exists (i.e., they do not possess the knowledge), or at least cannot prove that they know with certainty, then all that is left is belief.

Now, whether or not the atheist belief is more reasonable than the theist belief is a completely different story.

[edit on 30-7-2010 by ChickenPie]

reply to post by IamBoon


Your first point is correct and I don’t think you’ll get anyone disagreeing however your second is not.

You say that atheism is a belief even when an actual atheist says that theirs is a lack of belief? Surely it is for the individual to state their opinion.

Breaking the word down into its constituent morphemes the definition is clear; the prefix “a” means “lacking”, “not” or “without”; the word theism means the belief in at least one deity. Thus atheism literally means without belief in a deity.

Some atheist may indeed believe that a god or gods categorically do not exist but the word atheism should be taken to confer that belief.

I agree with point three though I do think it is rooted in logic.

reply to post by IamBoon


Ya know you people keep me do'in the Linda blair so much. I'm not sure
what I believe.............

Or.. don't believe? Scratches head kicks rocks. Mumbles.

reply to post by ChickenPie


If you read the entire section you would realize I am aseerting that Atheism IS a belief.

THere is no empirical evidence for or against the idea od a god existing. Both viewpoints are equal in every respect. There is no evidence for /or against such a concept as of now.

Originally posted by IamBoon
reply to post by ChickenPie

 

If you read the entire section you would realize I am aseerting that Atheism IS a belief.

You're right. I would have realized that if I had actually read your post. At least somebody has faith in me.

reply to post by IamBoon


So, do you believe in anything?

reply to post by Mike_A


Is Atheism a viewpoint?
THen it is belief.

Is there any concrete evidence for the basis of Atheism? Can it prove a deity cannot just "exist"?

If it cannot then it is a belief.


Instead of just stating the argument I literally destroyed in the OP , try disputing your irrational belief that Atheism is not a belief. I covered my bases and unless you find flaw within the argument itself .

Saying you assertion in something that cannot be proven or disproved by default constitutes belief. NOt here to argu though I stated what I did and I will let you people banter about how atheism is not a belief.

reply to post by catwhoknows


Boon is an Atheist. Which is to say, Boon believes there is nothing to believe in as far as Dieties go.

Boon
So it requires belief but not faith and is not a religion? Are we clear?

[edit on 30-7-2010 by randyvs]

reply to post by ChickenPie


That was towards ranyvs or sumthin.

Most argument Atheists use can also be used by THeists. THis IS because of the subject. Watch.


THere is no empirical data proving god.
THere is no empirical data Disproving god.

Atheism is a lack of belief in god(s) existence.
Theism is a lack of belief in god(s) nonexistence.


See? Does that make Theism a non belief? NO. It is a flawed argument that Atheists use to make themselves seem superior. It is egotistical garbage.

Originally posted by IamBoon
reply to post by ChickenPie

 

THere is no empirical data Disproving god.

For the lulz, what kind of empirical evidence could disprove the existence of God? I can't think of any...

Actually, yeah I can... I'm just le tired. I guess if it were proven that the universe were eternal or the natural processes that created it were eternal.

[edit on 30-7-2010 by ChickenPie]

why are people so concerned about what atheists believe or do not believe. Why is it so important to define what an atheist is? Every day on ATS there is a new thread claiming Atheism is this or that. The only thing I can conclude is that Religious folks are becoming more insecure. They see how their religion doesn't really fit in the world in which they live so lash out and question the actions and intentions of Atheists.

The majority of the worlds population are believers in some form of religion. If the religions you believe in with all your heart are true, then why does it matter what a small amount of Atheists believe or do not believe? If you believe in your religion surely it is strong enough to stand up to any atheist critique.

Originally posted by woodwardjnr

The majority of the worlds population are believers in some form of religion. If the religions you believe in with all your heart are true, then why does it matter what a small amount of Atheists believe or do not believe? If you believe in your religion surely it is strong enough to stand up to any atheist critique.

Take me for instance... I don't really care about what atheists think. I just like arguing with them for the lulz. They make me laugh.

However, I'm starting to wonder if I have some kind of moral obligation to try and convince people that God exists... hmmm....

reply to post by randyvs


Yet another person sitting on the wall.

Believe in the Lord, or do not believe in the Lord.

These people who are hedging their bets will fall through the middle.

Originally posted by IamBoon
So unless deductive logic , observational coherence,and solid empirical data absolutely rule out a possibility on a subject , any stance on the unproven subject is by definition a belief.

How about the stance "because of the lack of evidence there is no reason to believe its true, therefor I don't believe it to be true". I fail to see how not believing is a belief.

reply to post by IamBoon

See? Does that make Theism a non belief? NO. It is a flawed argument that Atheists use to make themselves seem superior. It is egotistical garbage.

Your point to me seems unarguable. Which is why, I prefer the role of student this time around. First to SnF.

catwhoknows

Yet another person sitting on the wall.

Not sure what you mean cat?

[edit on 30-7-2010 by randyvs]

Originally posted by catwhoknows
reply to post by randyvs

 

Yet another person sitting on the wall.

Believe in the Lord, or do not believe in the Lord.

These people who are hedging their bets will fall through the middle.

What's wrong with the middle? The middle of Oreos is arguably the best part. What say you?