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'Worst Bush-era policies' becoming the 'new normal': ACLU

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posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 03:55 PM

'Worst Bush-era policies' becoming the 'new normal': ACLU

From the point of view of civil libertarians, the Obama administration has been an exercise in frustration, with every hopeful sign followed by failures to live up to its own promises.

The ACLU has just issued a report (pdf), titled "Establishing a New Normal: National Security, Civil Liberties, and Human Rights Under the Obama Administration," which focuses on this pattern of inconsistency.
(visit the link for the full news article)

posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 03:55 PM
I don't think I need to say a word. This thread will either fuel itself just fine or die a quick and painless death, but I think there's something for just about everyone here.

You might think there are enough inflammatory words in the title of this article and the report about basically inflammatory words to probably implode on itself. But do give the report a read if you're interested in this sort of thing.

The report is divided into seven sections covering transparency, torture and accountability, detention, targeted killing, military commissions, speech and surveillance, and watch lists. The most striking areas of the report, however, are those which focus not on torture or secret prisons but on less-publicized recent actions by the Obama administration.

There is a link to the report PDF in the story.
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 7/29/2010 by ~Lucidity]

posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 04:13 PM
reply to post by ~Lucidity

interesting report, unfortunately i have to agree, the same crap that bush pushed through that was in direct violation of our rights, served as a doorway to make more , and larger invasions into our lives...

The sad thing is I dont know if anyone can actually see this stopping, im not sure you can put the genie back into the bottle....

posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 04:15 PM
The "new normal" thing has been going on since the inception of government.

Take a little freedom today and there will be a small outcry. This time next year it's a given that that freedom is gone and you can take a little more. Keep whittling away until it's gone and people are looking at you funny for suggesting they might want to try liberty.

Gun owners experience this everyday.

posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 04:23 PM
reply to post by ~Lucidity

Hopefully this thread gets some legs - you'll at least get S&F and my 2cents from me.

I'm not really a fan of Obama, but I will admit that when he was elected I did hold hope that he would at least change some of these polices or do away with them all together.

That hasn't happened - for the most part they have either stayed the same or even expanded.

Like you said about putting the genie back in the bottle.

I guess it really doesn't matter what is said while campaigning or what side of the fence (left or right) those in power sit.

They simply like the power too much to give it up once they have it.

posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 04:33 PM
reply to post by Frogs

I was really hoping that since Obama was so hard lined left/progressive that he would have done away with a lot of the crap that Bush did, that even true conservatives were against... Part of it being with this whole "in the name of your security" bull crap

Im kind of surprised he hasnt, but looking at things now with the bigger picture, it serves him better if he continues it.....

Its a sad state of affairs our country is in friends

posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 04:39 PM
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

I've been voting for over 40 years, and I don't remember it getting this bad until the Clinton years...and it's been progressively going downhill since.

It really seems the parties and ideologies spend most of their time bickering and so little time doing anything. There is no more calm, logical, and rational discussion; no communication; no compromise; no civility.

And I believe this is directly responsible in large part for the mess that we're in. Americans fighting Americans while the country falls in ruins around them? Can there be any winners here?

posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 04:47 PM
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

Yeah - the problem is, what's the solution?

Clearly "Vote 'em out!!" has been tried. It seems to just replace the current with more of the same regardless of which brand they wear.

I swear when we argue politics of Democrats vs. Republicans here in the US we might as well be arguing about Coke vs Pepsi. At the end of the day there just isn't enough difference between the two to matter.

Maybe the problem is we've been going with too many "name brands" when it comes to politics?

The thing is, those in power are far from dumb. They have to know we don't like the way is - but they seem not care as they have faith we either can't or won't change it.

posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 05:05 PM
reply to post by ~Lucidity

What a surprise the president lied. What did you expect? Do liberals think that if a president is pro abortion or even late term abortion that will make him MORE moral? Come on. Even "right wing" presidents can't be trusted, how much less a pro late term abortionist? Liars usually make it to very high places in leadership, doesn't matter how they label themselves or how much they satisfy the itch in your ears. There are few exceptions.

[edit on 29-7-2010 by MermaidWatcher]

posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 05:17 PM
Makes me wonder if both parties are dancing to a secret tune.

2nd linearoonie

posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 05:18 PM
reply to post by MermaidWatcher

What did I expect? Pretty much what we're getting...more of the same. Guess that's why I'm maybe calmer about this than many people...both those who voted for him and those who didn'

posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 05:57 PM
Was just re-reading the report, and this stuck out:

The President cautioned federal agencies that “[t]he Government should not keep information confidential merely because public officials might be embarrassed by disclosure, because errors and failures might be revealed, or because of speculative or abstract fears.”2

I am of the opinion that there has been more transparency. Sometimes even too much. And hasn't the FOIA process been simplified too? I haven't have first-hand experience but have heard it's easier now.

Maybe Wikileaks was part of this
Kidding! (Sort of.)

posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 07:35 PM
Ok, this is really going to sound strange but I remember hearing more than once, Bush saying (under his breath, while shaking hands at gatherings and on video) ...."things aren't as they seem" and "things are going to get worse" and "pray".

So here's what I began thinking just before Obama was sworn in.

I figured all he promised was going to go by the way-side because he has no clue what is REALLY going on in the higher government behind closed doors.
I figured once he was briefed as to tptb reality, his eyes would open to the truth and his promises would be history.
Maybe tptb bought his soul a long time ago. Maybe he was promised a free ride to the top.
I feel he was all for the power trip and knew it wasn't wise to ask questions, not that he probably cared to ask any questions.
Now that tptb have made good on their part of the deal, he mostly stays out of the picture (per orders), and when they pull his string, he jumps only to hide in the background again until he is summoned again.

Once they are in the Presidential shoes (in the know), they rarely follow through, imo.

[edit on 29-7-2010 by sweetliberty]

posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 07:58 PM
Outstanding thread, Lucidity. I have been noticing more and more over recent days that I find myself aligned with the ACLU.

Once a target for my contempt and disgust, I am starting to see them as the last best hope to save our nation. A team of lawyers fighting the corporate dragon using its own weapon of fire: law.

We will see. If not, that is just that much closer we are to being left with violence as an only solution. I am a pacifist. I hope to never see that day.

posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 08:10 PM
You gotta hand it to Dubya - who else could have shredded the Constitution while most of the American public cheered him on?

Since media consolidation back in the 80's the American public has had increasingly less real news and more distraction/propaganda spoon fed to them.

It looks like the boogeyman of "terrorism" was frightening enough to allow our rights to be so horribly abrogated. What this implies about the child-like mentality of most Americans goes without saying.

More and more people are waking up to the fact that we have been hoodwinked and quite badly at that, so perhaps there is hope. Yet the reality is so frightening (i'm talking about government here, not boogeymen) that many would as soon flip the channel and go back into their comfort zone of total disassociation via television as face the facts.

This is a sad legacy to leave our children and grandchildren. Despite having been active in exposing our government's misdoings for many years I have nothing to feel good about.

This story will probably have a sick, twisted ending like some fairy tale where the witch actually gets to eat the children. The quest for power destroys the humanity of some while it takes the critical mind from others.

The only real hope I entertain is that the system will collapse of it's own hubris and fiscal irresponsibility. Then perhaps will can rebuild again on the ashes of the old American dream.

posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 08:55 PM
reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan

Civil liberties are on all of our minds these days. Can't disagree that the ACLU may be our best hope.They've gotten a bum rap because of this too with some very biased MSM coverage. Funny how perspectives are changing.

reply to post by Asktheanimals

you're right. we have a lot of surprises in store for us. this report actually calmed me down a see it all laid out like that was...refreshing.

and the witch would be a liberal?
I'm kidding, of course...joke from another thread with antonia.

[edit on 7/29/2010 by ~Lucidity]

posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 08:59 PM

Originally posted by Frogs

Yeah - the problem is, what's the solution?

Clearly "Vote 'em out!!" has been tried. It seems to just replace the current with more of the same regardless of which brand they wear.

It actually hasnt been tried.

Not once have Americans voted en mass to remove both parties simultaneously. We have always assumed that the two parties are pursuing different agendas. Clearly, in the last several Presidencies, (from Regan on, at least) they are not.

We could still try to vote them out, by clearing both houses, and the oval office, and putting in all fresh meat. Kick both Parties to the curb, and try to rush through reform before the new electees are corrupted by those we cant vote out. (CIA, etc.)

posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 09:05 PM
reply to post by Illusionsaregrander

Actually, isn't this the idea of the vote out all incumbents drive? That's how I'm voting.

And on top of this, we have to challenge the SCOTUS ruling that took away the states' right to set term limits. With term limits corruption won't have time to sink its greedy claws in.

Two pronged attack

[edit on 7/29/2010 by ~Lucidity]

posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 09:20 PM
reply to post by ~Lucidity

I agree. The campaign contributions by corporations ruling has to be the first thing attacked. And oh so much more. But term limits is very important as well.

I am wary about voting out incumbents and replacing them with people from the same parties, however. I think it would help just getting incumbents out, but we also need to send them a message that we are willing to replace the parties altogether if they dont begin representing us again.

[edit on 29-7-2010 by Illusionsaregrander]

posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 09:31 PM

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
You gotta hand it to Dubya - who else could have shredded the Constitution while most of the American public cheered him on?


Hitler did it to the German constitution, 1930s Germans and 2010 repubs & dems are wiener cousins.. even cheering for their sociopath party leaders with a similar disturbing zeal.

1930s German national socialists:
Literature coined the phrases "heimat" refering to Germany, meaning "Homeland"... AND used "verscharfte vernehmung" on jews.. meaning "enhanced interrogation"

Had a paramilitary called "schwarzwasser" = "blackwater"
Unloaded war dead at night, out of public view.
Burned down their own parliament (false flag), used it as an excuse for war and called those who disagreed un patriotic.. then passed "clause 2" and the "enabling act" eroding Germans rights... mirroring the "PATRIOT ACT" allowing govt to read mail, monitor phone calls.

Joseph Grobbles championed embedding reporters with troops.

Hitler & bush even had the same patterns on their furniture.. lol..

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