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Vatican hiding scriptures?

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posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 09:42 PM
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I heard a rumor that the Vatican has hidden scriptures written by Jesus. The reason they are hidden is it goes against the Vatican beliefs . iHas anyone heard this ? Another question have the churches ever let scientist carbon date the original scriptures ?




posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 09:44 PM
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i dun know but im sure the vatican has a #load of authentic stuff like untold history and some really good stuff they hide butIMO the vatican is obsolete.



posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 09:54 PM
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Just Finished The DaVinci Code (fiction) and it wraps some thruths into it's story : one namely is the assumption Jesus was married and had offspring . I'm sure there is a link in ATS somewhere that can help if you use the search . The premise does away with the divine nature of Jesus and lowers him to a mortal level . This is not an oppinion , just something I read in a book of fiction that may be a lead to something for you to look into . The Church would surely want something like that kept under wraps .



posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 09:55 PM
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allow me to expand upon what you're saying here.

the vatican, that is the say the roman church has censored, edited and compeltely omitted parts of scripture as it never fit their own agenda. this is a centuries old practice, literally. whatever didnt fit the pope's ideals, gone! whatever went agaisnt what THEY believed, gone.

so it would NOt surprise me if they did this in regards to jesus.

now on the other hand there are some on the other side of the coin that believe there are these lost books of the bible that tell a far different story of jesus. i believe they might be on to something however i dont think its what people believe to be the actual lost books of the bible. what i mean is there are books out about this that talk about and explain this but rather than using actual scripture which they've probably enver seen they create their own fiction.

now it would be no surprise to em that there probably was a darker side to jesus (this presumes jesus existed and the bible is real, we're making a lot of presumptions here!) but probably not as dark as some would like you to believe.



posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 09:58 PM
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Well, the Vatican Library is huge with tons of stuff hidden away in there. But, very hard to get permission to get in there.

Here are the requirements:

"It is open to qualified researchers and scholars who can provide documentation of their qualifications and their need to access the materials conserved in the Library. By accepting the Readers Pass and signing the form in the Secretariat, the Reader undertakes to obey the Rules for Readers of the Library."
Here are the Rules: bav.vatican.va...


Also, here is their main library site: bav.vatican.va...

Everything else will just be a rumor until someone can go in, read it, and let everyone know for sure.



posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 10:02 PM
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One thing i heard is the virgin Mary was refered to as an un-wed mother not a virgin in original scripures



posted on Jun, 17 2004 @ 10:07 PM
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see if you can email them and ask -

www.vatican.va... (official vatican site
)



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 09:17 AM
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Ref: IS THE VATICAN STILL HIDING SOME DEAD SEA SCROLLS FROM THE PUBLIC?

It has been rumoured for decades that the VATICAN has been hiding many incriminating documents and artifacts from Antiquity (additional 1st and early 2nd century gospels for example which sometimes use not-sopreverent words that portray a "Jesus" not quite in line with what they want to believe about him, i.e. more human

(i.e. "The Saviour used to love Miryam [of Magdala] more than other women, for he used to kiss her often on the [mouth]...and the disciples said to one another, Does the Saviour love her more than us?" ----from: The Coptic Gospel of Phillip, discovered at Nag Hammadi in Egypt in 1945).

Sometimes these "non canonical gospels" (most of which are later than the Gospel material, except perhaps the Greek version of The Gospel of Thomas...) and other non-church-authorised writings float to the surface in the public domain, but notice how quick the Vatican is to keep control of the dissemination of such material to the masses--------such as the 50 year delay in releasing some of the Dead Sea Scroll material-----some Scroll-copies of which actually date from the period in which "Jeeezuzz" lived (BC 12 to AD 36) use language which show that there were active in Palestine various groups of sects that were hoping for a Warrior (political Jewish Daviddic Messiah) Figure--- using some of the very same language put into "Jeezuz" mouth in the gospels----very disturbing to the Catholic Church (and to other Christian organizations) who do not want their own pre-fabricated image of the harmless little god-man-parable Preacher image tarnished or changed in any way.

[Such knowldge is dangerous...might put a hurt on the number of believers and then.....bottom line....affect the amounts in the tax free offering plate every week !]

There have been repeated stores from several sources claiming again and again that the Vatican has even has carted off several Dead Sea Scrolls (between 1946 and 1960) which will never be shown to the general public for fear it would undermine the basic tenets of the Christian Faith, by showing that the Dead Sea Sect Community at Qumran (BC 200 to AD 68) was a a kind of "model for the Church" and that their hero, the socalled Teacher of Righteousness (BC 196 to BC 104) prefigured the "suffering Righteous martyr" long before "Iesous" ever came to existence.

As for all those Dead Sea Scroll documents that "went missing" (!) after the Vatican came to take a look at them, there is an interesting story about one scroll in Particular: THE DANIEL SCROLL. Here's how the story is generally told:

There was a CIA employee back in 1947-1948 who apparently was living in Damascus (Syria) when he came across an Egyptian dealer in "black market" antiquities (related to the group around "Kando" who held several of the Cave One Scrolls for a time):

This CIA operative was named Miles Copeland. He and his wife (so the story goes...) actually held in their very hands (sometime in August of 1947----fairly early in the discovery of the caves, be in noted!) a 40 foot scroll of a copy of Daniel which was written (like our book of Daniel) in both Hebrew and Aramaic blocks according to some of the excerpts he showed to some linguists he happend to know.

Miles Copeland's title seems to have been something like "American CIA representative to Damascus". The fast-disintegrating scroll was said to have "come from rock caves near Jericho" ...but it is hard to trace black market materials once they hit...well, the black market !

Copeland and his wife agreed to photograph the scroll to see if he could find someone to identify it.

The socalled Daniel Scroll was carefully unrolled on the roof of the American Legation in Damascus and photographed in a stiff wind that peeled off large chucks of the scroll ends which blew away in the gust. (OUCH!) .

His wife later claimed privately that only 30 frames of film were taken (25 feet of scroll material) which was not enough to cover the entire approx. 40 foot scroll.

One unidentified American Embassy official in Beirut who saw the photographs is said to have tentatively identified it, yes, as indeed, part of the canonical Old Testament book of Daniel.

At least he could see that part of the Text at least was in Aramaic and part in Hebrew and it quoted our present day (hotchpotch) book of Daniel.

According to Miles Copeland's wife, the Egyptian merchant never returned to claim his Scroll, and soon after he photographed the scroll, someone from the CIA that had contacts within the Ecole Biblique (the Vatican controlled Study Group) got wind of the find, and prompty came and confiscated all copies of the photographs in his desk along with the actual scroll itself, and taken to the "vaults" of the Vatican, where it allegedly is housed to this day, far from public view.

One wonders what controversial subject matter was contained in the Daniel Scroll that would have caused it to be carted away so quickly----almost desperately.

Several tiny Fragments of at least 3 other copies of the book of Daniel were eventually found at Qumran in 1952, five years after the reported incident., so we know the book was important to the Dead Sea Community. These fragments can be dated from about BC 80 to about AD 30 based on the "paleography" (Herodian writing style)

Since the text of this scroll was so long (Mrs Copeland claimed it was over 40 feet) it must have been more than just the Book of Daniel we know today in the Masoretic Text (dated 980AD from a single MSS in Leningrad, the "official" version used by most Jews and Chrsitians today).

The common copy of Daniel that we read in our bibles could easily have been copied onto a scroll of about 25 feet. So why is the Daniel Scroll so Long?

Miles was no scholar himself, but he did elicit some opinons from people who knew more about the Dead Sea Scrolls than he did and several different people suggested the text might have been a PESHER (verse by verse commentary) on the Book of Daniel which would account for its double length.

Following each verse of a PESHER COMMENTARY SCROLL (e.g. thePesher on Select Psalms for all the Sons of Light in the Last Days, or Pesher on the Prophet Habakkuk in the Last Days etc.) would be a formulaic phrase like :

(e.g. "interpreted, this passage refers to....)

followed by a concrete "interpretation"applied to the Dead Sea Community such as (for example )something like:

" [this refers to] all the Sons of Light in the Last Days who have separated themselves from the Sons of Darkness and from the Wicked Priest who led them to try and harm the Teacher..." etc.)

Every verse would have a PESHER ("interpreted, this means..") That is one way the scroll could have been so long.

Another reason may well have been that the copy of Daniel that Miles Copeland got a hold of was simply a longer text with more "prophecies" which perhaps the Early Church used themselves as a proof text...

Until we see the scroll itself, (or at least some of Miles' photographs of it) we may never know what was containted in it.

Who knows how MANY OTHER Dead Sea Scrolls have been hidden from the general public, especially in the first 2-3 years since the discovery of Cave #1 by the Bedouin in November 1946?

The Vatican Control Ecole Biblique heavilly censored any findings from the caves for 50 years-----until someone at the Huntington Library in California in 1991 finally decided to allow wider access, and now most of the material is in print and in modern translation.

There must have been explosive reasons why the Vatican thought the contents too damaging to publish---i.e. for the average "believer" to read

But how do we know how much is still being held back? Perhaps we will never know. ....

If anybody has any other information about Miles Copeland or the Missing Daniel Scroll, Please Step Forward !!!



posted on Jun, 18 2004 @ 12:00 PM
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That's some good research there Amadeus. Got any linkage?



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 11:01 PM
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reply to post by dexbiafra
 


Hi, i was actually in search of them, but the vatican apparently has retrieved scriptures which are the closest thing to Jesus' himself.
The reason they are considered bad is because the scriptures say things; such as: there is nothing between me and you, you and god. So attending church does not define you as a religious follower, nor is there any person closer to god or lord jesus christ themselves than yourself. SO it completely contradicts the Catholic system. Hence why the won't leak them



posted on Oct, 27 2008 @ 08:50 PM
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The Vatican has acted quite suspiciously in the past. No one had ever been allowed to see Codex Vaticanus until Napoleon took it to Paris, and it took until 1889 before the text became available -- after numerous roadblocks from the Church. It is really staggering how much of our history has only been known since the second half of the 19th century.

[edit on 27-10-2008 by Eleleth]



posted on Nov, 15 2008 @ 02:00 PM
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reply to post by dexbiafra
 


I can say without doubt you are correct. There has been people known to me that they kept one copy of all the scripture they supposed to have destroyed in their inquisitions. They also have mystics working under their wings. However they will of course denie the existance of any. There are numerous scripture they have not got hidden under Moscow's Kremlin. This is Czar Ivan I's library. A gift from the niece of the last Emperor of Constantinople, there are some 800 very sort after scripture. Alot of stuff out there in private collections too. The Gospel of Judas was one unearthed and heavily protected. Another that would cause some catastrophic problems is the Gospel of Simon Zealotes. Believeed to be somewhere in North Africa.



posted on Nov, 19 2008 @ 10:10 PM
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There is no way for anyone to know if the text that portrays Jesus more as a mortal than as a devine manifestation of God would hurt the christian faith. I believe in God Jesus and the bible 's teachings. I think that it may help christianity. People to see that he was a man he did love some one. It may just strengthen the the idea of a bond between mad and women.It may also show how a mortal man was killed and by the grace of God he was resurrected and ascended to heaven. I don't know just a thought of mine.



posted on Nov, 19 2008 @ 10:14 PM
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This is a rumor that has persisted for centuries. There have been rumors of confiscated material in regards to ancient spiritual wisdom being withheld by the "church" for many centuries. I am sure that if it's true, it is information which is detrimental to official dogma.

[edit on 19-11-2008 by SpeakerofTruth]



posted on Jan, 28 2009 @ 07:22 PM
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reply to post by dexbiafra
 


Yes this a true fact. The vatican never lets just on person translate the scriptures so they dont know what the hole thing says in its entirty Some time ago this came out as a leak and the one script said that Jesus said that you dont need the church to be with him and god somthing like that so thy locked up that one and some more Ive been searching for more info latley but hard to find



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 06:30 PM
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I was told that the vatican has not allowed anyone to see the Dead Sea Scrolls? They interpret the bible from the Hebrew language?

Is this correct?



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 07:25 PM
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Originally posted by oddtodd
Just Finished The DaVinci Code (fiction) and it wraps some thruths into it's story : one namely is the assumption Jesus was married and had offspring . I'm sure there is a link in ATS somewhere that can help if you use the search . The premise does away with the divine nature of Jesus and lowers him to a mortal level . This is not an oppinion , just something I read in a book of fiction that may be a lead to something for you to look into . The Church would surely want something like that kept under wraps .


Hi, Jesus the man and flesh was obviously mortal, because he died. What people don't seem to get about Jesus is there is 2 different parts to Jesus. This is what he is talking about with being born anew and such.

Mary is NOT a virgin. She is not the virgin. The flesh of Jesus comes from Joseph and Mary, thus his line of flesh. These are his flesh parents. However, the virgin birth is real. The virgin is the father, god. This part of Jesus is spirit, it is not flesh. This is his soul, spirit and so forth.

Jesus doesn't recognize himself as being of the flesh. And so he denies his parents. People forget he also dismisses Mary as being his mother. Because he knows he is not flesh, he knows he is spirit/soul and that being born of spirit and soul means there is only 1 who is his father, the virgin who remains a virgin still.

So it is when you realize this, and when you realize your true nature and who your father is, then you understand why Jesus says the things he does, and how it applies to you. Jesus says and even greater things can you do, because all the things he says of himself can also be true of you, should you realize it.

So 2 births. We are born thinking we are of the flesh, Jesus was apparently born knowing all of this from the start. We grow up thinking we are of the flesh, and live our lives this way. We associate ourselves as being our body, our brain and so forth. And so we see ourselves as being merely a result of creation. But it is only our flesh that comes from this creation, our souls come from god. Thus, when your soul is a son of god and when you see yourself in this manner, then you are a son of god.

So when you come on this earth you still have to be born of the 2 birth. Technically you already are, but you haven't realized it yet. So thus you must be born anew. This happens on a specific time for people. It happens in John 14:20 - "At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.". Notice, it makes references to a specific point in time for you, on that day.

And then you become like a child, as your entire world view and how you see and understand things changes. When you are no longer worried about the flesh, and realize you are not the flesh, then you also realize that death isn't real and so forth, and the things Jesus says makes sense. John 14:20 is followed by the holy spirit when comes and teaches you(14:26). As again, you are like a child and your understanding is rebuilt.

This is also not exclusive to Christians. This is for all, no matter what your beliefs are. Again, from John 14. 14:24 "He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me. "

www.biblegateway.com...

The Vatican/whatever powers that be can hide scripture, manipulate things and such or whatever all they want. But they can't hide the truth from those who are willing to seek, as the kingdom of heaven and the answers are all within. Look inside and beyond your flesh and your body and you will find consciousness/soul. The only thing they can do is kill the flesh of those who dare speak of it. Which history shows them to pretty well efficient at.

Matthew 7

28And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:

29For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 07:42 PM
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I've always sort of wondered if instead of destroying the gnostic texts they kept them. Would be nice to see them of course, I can dream



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 02:06 PM
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Originally posted by JCMinJapan
Well, the Vatican Library is huge with tons of stuff hidden away in there. But, very hard to get permission to get in there.

Here are the requirements:

"It is open to qualified researchers and scholars who can provide documentation of their qualifications and their need to access the materials conserved in the Library. By accepting the Reader�s Pass and signing the form in the Secretariat, the Reader undertakes to obey the Rules for Readers of the Library."
Here are the Rules: bav.vatican.va...


Also, here is their main library site: bav.vatican.va...

Everything else will just be a rumor until someone can go in, read it, and let everyone know for sure.


Erm, it is very EASY to get into the Vatican library. All you need is a letter of introduction from an academic.

At the moment it is closed for refurbishment, tho.

All these stories are 19th century legends, when it really was hard to get in. But this wasn't a conspiracy; it was because the Pope used Italian librarians who were officious and lazy (and still are...). Around 1900 the then Pope got fed up with all the legend-making and put the library under the control of the Swiss guard. These, being Germans, are very efficient as a rule.

All the best,

Roger Pearse



posted on Mar, 6 2009 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by dexbiafra
 


The Vatican is the remnants of the Roman Empire and they didn't accept Christianity until much later. Their Bible is based on Alexandrian texts of which only 50 were ever written where the KJV is based on literally thousands of copies of manuscripts in many languages. No Jesus Books...

Carbon Dating wouldn't work on a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy it would only date the latest copy.




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