The Tea Parties, lets get something clear.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by badgerprints

 

By the very premises in the OP, the Tea Party is comprised of just about every ideology and concern across the entire spectrum, so that would be what as far as ideologies go? The entire country?

Nope. Not the entire country. Just a cross section of citizens who are fed up with the popular ideology running their lives.

You seem to be fixated on ideology.

The fact is that we don't have to all be on a side to take care of the citizens. Having extremely varied walks of life in one group is just fine as long as that group agrees on the most basic necessities. Neither of the primary parties or any one 'ideology' or plank/platform/special interest/core group can claim that.

So yes. This ideology is basically the entire country-citizens- who stand up for the citizens instead of the entrenched political crime syndicate of choice.

I for one still don't think they will be able to make an impact and create the needed change. There aren't enough people who have the ability to look past their own selfish ideologies to see what's good for the nation. They are too worried about rooting for their political team as if it were the superbowl.

Edited for the hell of it.

[edit on 29-7-2010 by badgerprints]

From the OP ~

I have been to a couple Tea Party events. I do not participate more than have a humorous sign of something benign and really just went to observe.

So. This person went to a couple TP events, said he/she did not participate - yet - they know all about the Tea Party.

WOW.

Really?

Must be psychic then.

reply to post by Whiffer Nippets

So. This person went to a couple TP events, said he/she did not participate - yet - they know all about the Tea Party.

It's not like I called them racist. I was actually defending them against unsubstantiated claims. And I don't know all about them.... never said I did. I did not intend to. I don't think anything I said was too speculative. People who carry LaRouchePAC signs are easy to spot and easy to understand what they believe. I wasn't reading their minds, I was reading their signs and talking to them.

WOW.

Mom, upsidedown

Really?

Yep....

Must be psychic then.

I can prove it.... look here ------>WOW

Let's get something clear about the Tea Parties: while I agree that they are not a cohesive group, the most potent elements among them (the ones the media chooses to pay attention to) are strongly aligned with the Republican party. Can anyone, ANYONE, name a single candidate endorsed by a Tea Party organization that is NOT a Republican? Are there any Democrats? Libertarians?

The simple truth is that the functional Tea Party movement (that is, the factions within it that are presented to you through the media as actually having political power) is controlled by Republicans. Tea Party enthusiasts may take offense to this accusation, but hear me this, and respond thus:

Don't have establishment politicians speak at your meetings. I've attended Tea Party demonstrations when the movement was in its infancy, and in fact organized some of them. In those days, the movement had three simple principles--anti-big government, anti-big spending, and pro-sovereignty.

The moment Sarah Palin spoke at a Tea Party demonstration, it became clear to me that the movement had been usurped by the Republican establishment. This woman has no understanding of economics, nor does she have any respect for your discretion as an individual. If she had her way, you'd have to DIE before having an abortion. She has no place, no role, and is antithetical to the liberty movement.

She is just an example. Don't let establishment politicians (nor their money) corrupt your anti-establishment movement. I fear it is already too late, and what once was a powerful grassroots movement has been taken over political forces. They recognized the power latent in your movement and have neutered it, so that you can't stir the pot.

Tea Party activists be aware: your passion is now being directed by the very powers you oppose.

reply to post by badgerprints

Again, my point is that, from the premise in the OP, which I happen to pretty much agree with, the party is comprised of almost as vast a cross-section as exists in the country.

I am far, far, far from fixated on ideologies. In fact, that word is about as I'm typically willing to go as far as assigning labels haphazardly. I actually break out in hives and rung when people begin throwing the C-word, L-word, D-word, R-word, and their like around. Mostly I sort of tune out.

It's the T.E.A. Partiers vs. the TWO Partiers.
The TWO Partiers, the Democrats and the Republicans are a formidable force, as demonstrated here on ATS.
Don't be a TWO Partier.
Become the change you want to see, the T.E.A. Party welcomes you. You can put Bush AND Obama on the same sign painted like a clown. You might get into a debate with a Bush lover, get over it. This is America, Pelosi won't be there to protect you.
(Especially after November)

Sarah Pallin has already hijacked the tea party, that's why if you ever see them doing anything to run for office, Pallin will be the candidate.

reply to post by hippomchippo

Quite a few subfaction have co-opted, coattailed, and otherwise taken the name of the Tea Party it seems. The neocons come to mind as well.


Trying to get this straight in my head...so what all these people from all these backgrounds and ideologies have in common is a love for the country and its Constitution and a (did someone say) general dislike for the government? Isn't that more or less just about every American today?

Why have a "party" at all? Maybe if we didn't we'd do more free-thinking and debate individual issues and priorities, candidates, and ideas with more voice and more respect for everyone. That or get to the six or seven parties we probably should have by now for a nation as diverse as this one.

reply to post by DINSTAAR

Cheers:

I agree with your post, I see that as of now the tea party movement has little organized direction as everyone shows up with a laundry list of grievances against the government. The leadership (Sarah Palin) just wants to swing people to the republican party- I suggest gather top 10 issues, and vote leadership to spearhead these issues into main media, and into homes of Americans so that we can have a third choice when we vote.

Sarah Palin is the leadership No, are you being serious? Or did I miss an example you're referring to?

reply to post by ~Lucidity

Sarah Palin is the leadership No, are you being serious? Or did I miss an example you're referring to?

I think Sarah Palin killed whatever hope I had for the Tea Parties. She has a lot of clout with the right, sadly.

The Republicans have successfully taken over the TPM. I remember back when it was in its infancy, thinking that that was going to happen. I like how this coming November is like the 'day everything changes' for these people. Nothing will change, but I will at least stand up for them when it comes to unwarranted allegations of racism.

Originally posted by Zippidee
Sure its been infiltrated by the GOP and has been attempted to be torn apart by Liberals.

Same thing. Liberals will attack the TPM as long as it is managed to a large extent by the GOP.

Post election the lesson learned was love him or hate him, then candidate Obama demonstrated the power of grass-roots organizing. He wasn't only opposed by the GOP...Hillary was the Dems darling and chosen candidate. It was through a grass-roots iniative that Pres. Obama won the nomination and presidency.

So what does the GOP do? Scopes around and finds a growing grass-roots group and buys it via Dick Armey and Freedomworks. Gives it coverage via Fox and eventually other media outlets are obligated to follow.

What you end up with is a group that was literally founded on opposing President Bush and the Bailouts to a group that opposes financial regulation on those same banks...quite a dramatic turn and IMO the most damning evidence of how the GOP took the reigns.

Who is the Tea Party? well The Winston Group conducted a survey. The Winston group is Newt Gingrich's polling org.

65% called themselves Conservative
26% called themselves Moderates
8% Liberal

57% Have a favorable view of Republicans in Congress
16% Have a favorable view of Democrats in Congress

15% have a strongly Favorable view of Rep. In Congress
75% have a strongly Unfavorable view of Dems in Congress

37% have an Unfavorable view of Republicans in Congress
81% have an Unfavorable view of Democrats in Congress
winstongroup.net...


CBS Poll
Two thirds of Tea Partiers said they had a favorable opinion of Palin, according to the poll, conducted April 5 - 12, while 59 percent have a favorable opinion of Beck.

Fifty-seven percent of Tea Partiers also think well of former Republican President George W. Bush
www.cbsnews.com...

57% think well of GWB!!

How did that happen? A group that sprung up to protest the bailouts by President Bush?...now remember him fondly?

Hijacked...I wish it wasn't so, but that is what it is.





[edit on 29-7-2010 by maybereal11]

There is still a mixture of parties attending and supporting the TP.

What are they all in agreement on?

reply to post by DINSTAAR

I remember thinking that very thing as well when she first started being associated with the party. Frankly, it pissed me off because I aligned far, far more closely with Ron Paul, and I had a bit of hope that maybe for once in my 4 decades of voting I might actually be able to lend my voice and actions to a worthy cause that actually reflected what I believed in. Then all "this" happened.

As for racism, yeah the fighting and bickering back and forth about it, the accusations and the anger and the frenzied half-baked lies, accusations, and defenses, was part of the "this" too.

My stance on racism, and any kind of divisive bickering like this aimed at agitating and evoking uncontrolled emotions or, yes, even hate, is pretty clear too...

If you ignore it, it goes away. Becomes a non-issue. The stories stop. The fighting stops. People don't get attention for it, it shrivels up and dies.

Feed it or defend it...either way you're guilty of perpetuating it and giving it power. You decide.

Excuse me OP but you ARE trying to make it out like you're an expert on this political group.

You have hung yourself with your own words. You claim these people are *not* racist and then you turn around and say you've been to only TWO meetings.

You do not have enough information to make a blanket statement.

And I see now you're trying to bolster your original story.

I've said this a thousand times but I'll say it again: if you are going to try to Propagandize for whatever cause you believe it - it helps greatly if you actually know what you're talking about.

This also includes not making glaringly simple mistakes like admitting that you don't really have any concrete information.

Try harder next time.

reply to post by maybereal11

Ugh...so now liberals are the opposite of the GOP? See, this is exactly one of my problem with labels. They confuse and cloud all the issues, and of course, the hives. Why can't we just talk about issues and values without labeling and therefore assuming stances.

And yes, there may be a small or even miniscule faction of these evil liberals who are out to get you...who wake up daily and say to themselves...hmmm what lie can I tell today to incinerate the TP?

But frankly, I don't think it's that large a threat if you just know what you stand for, hold your head high and proud, and keep working toward what you believe in...calmly, logically, and without shouting people down in anger or with rapid-fire arguments no one can even keep up with nevermind discuss reasonably or to any degree of compromise.

Why forfeit that much power to them? And why paint anyone and everyone who doesn't agree on a particular issue with such a broad brush that you inspire war and not compromise and cooperation? Whatever ideologies people have they're still part of your country and you have to live and work with them and run a government with them. Are you just going to keep fighting in this stupid way? As if someone can win? Because no one can win...and it's only our country that loses. We all lose.

What I just described is what it looks like to me, from the outside looking in, anyway.

[edit on 7/29/2010 by ~Lucidity]

reply to post by Whiffer Nippets


"Now lets get something clear about people, in general. Liberal or conservative, people generally want something better for all humanity. Its time to stop arguing over what people perceive others motivations to be. We all want to end human suffering and make a better tomorrow for all mankind, its time we start talking about that rather than bigoted accusations of malevolence."


That quote is from DINSTARR's OP.
May I ask you what you think about it?
...esp the part about other peoples motivations and bigoted accusations of malevolence.

reply to post by Whiffer Nippets

First, not so sure that's true, but having said that, even if it was true, would you not welcome a view of how your party is perceived by someone from outside of it? To see how perhaps you could grow and improve from that and maybe even get a new "member?"

Why assume the worst when someone merely asks a question or debates a point? Why assume the malevolence the OP talks about and sweetliberty also asks about? Do you honestly believe that's going to help your party? Your cause? Are you a closed group where only people exactly like you are welcome or something?

The OP's post was a brilliant opportunity for some really critical discussion of some very glaring problems within the Tea Party and how it is perceived...for whatever reasons..

Why it isn't being taken as such by some is beyond me.

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
reply to post by maybereal11

 

Ugh...so now liberals are the opposite of the GOP?
[edit on 7/29/2010 by ~Lucidity]

I didn't make the poll questions, newt Gingrich did.

The poll asked them to choose between "Conservative", "liberal" and "Moderate".

And between Rep. and Dem. Congressman.

Honestly I am not sure what you are speaking to, but agree issues are FAR more important than party or labels.

My "issue" is that the GOP is largely managing the issues that the TPM protests around.

You know what would make me see the TP movement differently?

If the National TP Organization had told Michelle Bachman...thank you, but no thank you, we don't need you or your GOP caucus representing us in congress, we have our own representitives and they will be there shortly after the Nov. elections.

Stop letting Sarah Palin be the voice.

Publicly tell Dick Armey Freedomworks to ef off.

Cut the leash.