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A Challeng to ATS's most brilliant Mathamaticians

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posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 02:54 AM
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posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 02:56 AM
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posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 03:02 AM
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[edit on 29-7-2010 by NeutronAvenger]

Mod Edit:
DO NOT edit moderator actions.

[edit on 29-7-2010 by Gemwolf]

[edit on 29-7-2010 by NeutronAvenger]

Mod Edit:
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[edit on 29-7-2010 by Gemwolf]



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 03:05 AM
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Any language, be it mathematical or not, relies on arbitrary commonly agreed symbols. It is extremely difficult (or impossible) to guess the meaning of symbols. What you need is context, or a previous translation. Think about the Rosetta stone.

Maths is the universal language... of physics, useful for expressing relationships about quantities. You can't write "welcome, please land here" with maths.



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 03:06 AM
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posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 03:07 AM
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reply to post by ChicUFO
 


I'm not a brilliant mathematician. All I can offer is this:

This site is for collaboration, so...
Why don't you people get a life! He has a good idea here and all I've seen in the last page and a half is a gang of goons attacking him for no reason. If you have anything constructive to add, then do it, otherwise lay off.

PS to the OP: There is an "e" at the end of "challeg". Also, have you thought about Fibonacci numbers?



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 03:10 AM
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OK. Can we please try to stay focused on the topic.

If you cannot contribute to the thread, then please move on to the next thread.

Thank you.



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 03:12 AM
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Originally posted by Cygnis
As per requested, in Binary, space separated. "Welcome, Please land here"
01010111 01100101 01101100 01100011 01101111 01101101 01100101 00100000 01010000 01101100 01100101 01100001 01110011 01100101 00100000 01101100 01100001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01101000 01100101 01110010 01100101


The problem is you're binary combined with ascii to translate to "welcome, please land here"

What's to say that aliens have a different version of ascii to link binary combinations to letters/symbols ? It's likely all they would get is mumbled up letters and symbols

For instance a simple analogy would be sending this to a French person who understand binary & ascii but doesn't understand English, to them it would be meaningless.


As for sending a message it would need to be a language in it's simplest form and a little bit of faith that the aliens can translate from our language to their own.

For images you'd have to be careful as well, if you sent a picture of a human waving, to us that is friendly but to the alien culture it could be considered a declaration of war.

It's all very complicated really the factors you need to consider to send a friendly and understandable message to another culture you don't even know exists lol



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 03:16 AM
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I am not a mathematician, I can not even begin to design a set of symbol that would relay a message. I have asked the members in the hope that they can come up with a design. It seems that if people work together, they should be able to agree on a design. There should be a simple idea that anyone could easily understand.



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 03:22 AM
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Originally posted by nablator
Any language, be it mathematical or not, relies on arbitrary commonly agreed symbols. It is extremely difficult (or impossible) to guess the meaning of symbols. What you need is context, or a previous translation. Think about the Rosetta stone.

Maths is the universal language... of physics, useful for expressing relationships about quantities. You can't write "welcome, please land here" with maths.


Exactly nablator! You hit the nail on the head.

The only thing I can really think of is to transmit the atomic structure of water and oxygen (even though it may not be conducive to all walks of life in the galaxy). I'm not sure how we could quantify love in such a fashion though. Perhaps send them the atomic structure of ecstasy! LOL!

IRM



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 03:31 AM
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reply to post by ChicUFO
 


Bottom glyph looks like 3d Earth with moon, Someone showing off local ride perhaps


Normally a ufo would be fired on. Sorry i'm no good at maths.

Regards, robbo.



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 03:38 AM
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reply to post by ChicUFO
 


You know, it just hit me... All the crop circles we're seing are becoming more and more complex and mathematically intricate. Perhaps someone's already hit upon your idea and is laying out these circles in order to attract offworld attention. Just a thought.



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 03:47 AM
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reply to post by this_is_who_we_are
 


That is pretty much what I hope for, unfortunately, I don't think any of the crop circles have been interpreted. I don't think that the design needs to be as complicated as some of the crop circles that I've seen on the internet.



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 04:07 AM
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reply to post by ChicUFO
 


Actually i found a site where some crop circles have been interpreted by somebody i will see if i can find it and post link here.


Cheers, robbo.



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 05:12 AM
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That is pretty much what I hope for, unfortunately, I don't think any of the crop circles have been interpreted. I don't think that the design needs to be as complicated as some of the crop circles that I've seen on the internet.

Start from here.

www.cropcircleconnector.com...

Just type [ Crop Circles interpreted ] In google Lots of Utube movies also

Regards, robbo.



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 06:24 AM
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As a couple of people have said, though maths is said to be a language in itself, the person reading it would have to know the language it was translated from. So if you want to translate 'welcome', they would have to be able to understand English to get that it translates as welcome, and what that means. I didn't explain that well, but I'm sure you get what I mean.

Perhaps make a neon sign of a waving hand and a big smile
Then again, perhaps smiling is highly offensive to some species!

I do have one question about this post:


Originally posted by ChicUFO
reply to post by Oneolddude
 


I have never said that I didn't believe in UFO's because I have seen them myself, I do not however believe that they are alien spacecraft or that they are from the future.

My idea for a base/welcome center is something that I believe we need. It is an idea that I would think every UFO enthusiast would be interested in. I am willing to work toward building it but no "believer" is. When I came up with this idea I believed that some UFO's could be alien in nature. Since joining ATS, I am more convinced than ever that it is a religion because people are so defensive of their beliefs.


If you don't believe that UFOs are alien, then why do this? If they are secret military craft or something, they aren't going to land just because you say hello. Not to mention that you might as well just use a recognisable language.

The only reason I can see to try to use a universal medium is if they are alien.



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 06:24 AM
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reply to post by ChicUFO
 


what makes you believe that there is a mathematical correlation to be drawn from them ?

i gathere they are the alleged symbols seen on an alleged UFO - correct ?

if so then " analyse " these :

symbol one

symbol two

as you have no doubt guessed they are the RAF roundel and union jack - as seen on RAF service aircraft

but what do they mean ?

its not a trick question

a symbol always has a context - but not nesseceraly a mathematical one



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 06:36 AM
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reply to post by ChicUFO
 
I think 'welcome please land here' is unnecessary window-dressing or flim-flam. If we capture the attention of an intelligent species capable of either getting here or communicating with us, welcome messages become irrelevant...as I see it.

If they are hostile, peaceful or just curious...they'd make an effort to monitor or communicate with us prior to physical contact. The initial wording of a message would be redundant in the face of simply making a message designed to catch the attention in the first place. A mathematical translation of English may well translate into a signal that's random noise when all we want is their attention.

Focusing on the signal. It'd be useful to send a signal that indicates the spectroscopic signatures of life's building blocks. Water is here in abundance and maybe represents something of value to other lifeforms. So perhaps sending a modified (embedded prime number sequence?) h2o signature would announce the presence of intelligent, technological life on this planet?

I could be speculating way above my pay-scale



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 06:52 AM
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reply to post by ChicUFO
 


Even that you get a good message, which I think it's very hard, and NASA spent a lot of time and money already doing that, how do you expect to send it, or show it?

I mean, the biggest sign we have right now are the crop circles (being man made or not), and those are ridiculous. At a bigger scale, like at high altitude or even in orbit, crop circles become something as normal as a forest or a small path on the country-side. Or even more insignificant. You would need to assume that they scan every 100 square meters of earth, and 100 square meters is a tiny dot in Earth's territory, and notice a different color in the grass.

How do you expect, with your resources (and in resources, I add a possible huge amount of support from ATS), to spread that sign, or expose it in a way that it will be noticed?

How is it any different to an alien, than the drawing in your t-shirt?



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 10:02 AM
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Originally posted by this_is_who_we_are
reply to post by ChicUFO
 


You know, it just hit me... All the crop circles we're seing are becoming more and more complex and mathematically intricate. Perhaps someone's already hit upon your idea and is laying out these circles in order to attract offworld attention. Just a thought.


There's one major flaw in that logic though. To see those crop circles, they would already have to be here!

Doh!

IRM



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