Do you believe in Elions?

I'm a conservative Jew, and I find this especially interesting since every Saturday at my Synagogue, we say (sing) a prayer named עָלֵינוּ or "Aleinu" which translates to "ours" as in "our obligation"

Perhaps more interesting is that the congregation is asked to rise during this prayer.

Hmm...

[edit on 28-7-2010 by mitman93]

Best thread i have seen so far! ...too thumbs up S+F

[edit on 07/14/2010 by AlphaANDOmega]

fasicnating thread. Thank you for posting. If I have to live this life over again, etymology will be my specialty. Absolutely the only way one can discern the truth of early records, imo.

reply to post by Davidius


Sex = Eden?

"Humans survived ice age by sheltering in 'Garden of Eden', claim scientists"

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Does sex warm us up enough to survive ice ages?

[edit on 28-7-2010 by SinkingSun]

Interesting, but not academic. The similarities are likely only phonetic.

Elyon or עליון' in the Tetragrammaton is one of the 72fold names of God, yes. It means "Most High". Ēl ʿElyōn specifically means "God Most High". It also refers to the crown / heaven (Keter) ie: "Most High".

There are no plausible references to "aliens" other than phonetics.

In fact, if you're looking to make a connection between aliens and some of the divine entities and names: Gematria and Cabalism are full of all sorts of things you could much easier associate with aliens. Too many to mention, actually, some quite interestingly very defined. Picking one based on phonetics is a bit Bush league.

reply to post by Skyfloating


I do not recall those terms being plural in Hebrew.

I also know that alien meant outsider, but God was not an outsider. He was with the people. So the transition is a bit off.

But I am interested. Seeing as Satan is a Nephilim and therefore a fallen angel, which is the most "alien" sounding thing I know about.

alien (adj.) mid-14c., "strange, foreign," from O.Fr. alien, from L. alienus "of or belonging to another," adj. form of alius "(an)other" (see alias). Meaning "of another planet" first recorded 1944 in science fiction writing; the noun in this sense is from 1953. The noun sense of "foreigner" is first attested early 14c. An alien priory (c.1500) is one owing obedience to a mother abbey in a foreign country.

Source

It is interesting stuff , etymology is very interesting stuff indeed !

I am going to try and search the Hebrew origin of that word to see what I can come up with

reply to post by warpcrafter


Our ancient past holds the key answers we are all looking for, namely, Who are we?

It seems apparent to me that we as a race have lost a connection to ourselves, and that our future, if it is to be one of growing awareness, depends on us solving these mysteries of our ancient past.

nice post. I've always had similar suspicions, especially in the few years I spent going to a religious school.
When you were punished, you had to hand write specific parts of the bible 10 times, or even whole books of the bible [waste of perfectly good paper], and I remember asking about Genesis 3:22

"Behold the man has become as one of 'us' to know good and evil, and now lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat and live forever".

The question for the pastor went something like:
"Why does God say us?"
-"He's speaking to the angels"
"but there are no angels in the bible yet, and God JUST created the universe and man, and never mentioned creating angels."
-"There would be no one else to converse with God."
"what about other Gods?"
-"Not possible. It's commonly used when speaking with peers, but God is above arrogance, and is kind to his servants."
"but people beat thier slaves and talk down to them."

Then he made me write Psalm 119 ten times for asking why the artist gave Adam & Eve navals, on top of this questioning in front of the entire class.
..my long winded point is that this verse kind of opened up a different side of the bible that those who blindly follow the interperetation of man, won't notice, and I applaud your intelligence, being able to read between the lines and think for yourself.

people uses to die for asking questions like yours.

no, its false

a book or a text can only be interpret in one way and one way ONLY!

(sarcasm)

Originally posted by Skyfloating
The other day I heard a Hebrew word that was pronounced alien. The word was Elion or the more common spelling Elyon. I looked up its meaning. It means "upper", "up high", "in the heavens", "in the sky" and also "God". Interestingly Elyon also means basket or bowl (flying saucer?).

So I looked up the Etymology of the word "alien" and it is widely claimed that the word first became associated with extraterrestrials in a science-fiction book of 1944. Before that it referred to strangers or foreigners.

Follwing this interesting coincidence (?) I got curious and next looked up similar words such as the Norman "Alieen" and the Greek "Alina" which mean light, ray of light. I enjoy speculating on synchronistic connections between words and meanings.

Looking closer at "Elyon", the "ly" refers to going-up or ascending. In Isiah 13.14. Satan boasts:

I shall be enthroned in the mount of the council in the farthest north
I will ascend about the heights of the clouds;
I will be like Elion.

Samuel 2.2. has sound connected to the Elion:

God thundered from heaven,
and the Elyon uttered his voice.

And Pslam 97.9. refers to "Gods" in the Plural, another of many pieces of evidence that some of the Gods referred to in the Old Testament are not THE God (Supreme Creator) but lesser beings.

For you, God, are Elyon over all the earth;
you are raised high over all the gods.

Contemporary translations claim that "El" is God but that also "Elyon" is God and that there is no difference between the two. But since they are two different words, there really may be a difference. Maybe EL is THE God and Elyon is, similar to Elohim the "Gods", meaning lesser beings (aliens).

As controversial as it may sound, EL-OHIM is the plural of EL (God). Translating Elohim as "God" is a mistranslation.

In my personal view the "real God" in Judaism is YHVH, also known as "Gods name". But the actual meaning of YHVH is "to be" or "is" or "ineffable name". This would be identical to the Hindu, Buddhist and Kabbalist conception that "The Most High" is actually not a person but an impersonal infinite is-ness or force. If true then The Elohim would then not be the prime Source but actual beings.

Exodus 19, At Mount Sinai

These biblical passages actually speak for themselves so I wont add my own comment here, except to say that maybe it was not THE God coming down to have a chat with Moses but raher....Elions.

Then Moses went up to God, and the Lord called to him from the mountain and said...

... 'You yourselves have seen what I did to Egypt, and how I carried you on eagles' wings and brought you to myself

The Lord said to Moses, "I am going to come to you in a dense cloud, so that the people will hear me speaking with you and will always put their trust in you."

And the Lord said to Moses, "Go to the people and consecrate them today and tomorrow. Have them wash their clothes and be ready by the third day, because on that day the Lord will come down on Mount Sinai in the sight of all the people. 12 Put limits for the people around the mountain and tell them, 'Be careful that you do not go up the mountain or touch the foot of it. Whoever touches the mountain shall surely be put to death. He shall surely be stoned or shot with arrows; not a hand is to be laid on him. Whether man or animal, he shall not be permitted to live.' Only when the ram's horn sounds a long blast may they go up to the mountain."

On the morning of the third day there was thunder and lightning, with a thick cloud over the mountain, and a very loud trumpet blast. Everyone in the camp trembled. Then Moses led the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain. Mount Sinai was covered with smoke, because the Lord descended on it in fire. The smoke billowed up from it like smoke from a furnace, the whole mountain trembled violently, and the sound of the trumpet grew louder and louder. Then Moses spoke and the voice of God answered him.

Related Thread: Extraterrestrials in Judaism and Islam


[edit on 28-7-2010 by Skyfloating]

Did some quick searching and found a much deferent pronunciation of the word , I came up with a word that sounds like " al-la " not EL .

Also did some searching of the two words in Hebrew , the are not related

אֱלֹהִים. Elohiym

עָלָה. " I shall go up " Also this is a verb not a noun as far as it's origin .

The definitions you offer are the same as I found , to go up , ascend , climb , to visit .

Also used to refer to an animal , coming or going up ... Possibily how it evolved into referring to " a forigen body " .

Very interesting find OP'er Even though I tend to believe that the word alien is perhaps based on this Hebrew word to " go up. " I would not include the word " Elohiym " as a reference , as it seems to have no relation , as far as I have been able to dig up anyway .


[edit on 28-7-2010 by Max_TO]

Originally posted by serbsta

For you, God, are Elyon over all the earth;
you are raised high over all the gods.

I don't think its saying that there are multiple gods.

Even though its saying it you dont think its saying it?
Also, Elohim is the plural of El. But Im no Scholar of Religious Scripture so Im not sure what the reasoning is for translating Elohim as singular...

yet, people have a hard time believing Sitchin and his translation of the Anunnaki as the Nephilim. Interesting theory though.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Outline of Biblical Usage:
1) (plural)
a) rulers, judges
b) divine ones
c) angels
d) gods
2) (plural intensive - singular meaning)
a) god, goddess
b) godlike one
c) works or special possessions of God
d) the (true) God
e) God

Originating from 'elowahh
אֱלוֹהַּ

Outline of Biblical Usage:
1) God
2) false god

Here is more

Elysian
1579, from Gk. Elysion pedion "Elysian field," where heroes and the virtuous live after death, from a pre-Gk. word of unknown origin.

Elysium- 1590s, from L. Elysium, from Gk. Elysion (pedion) “abode of the blessed.”

dictionary.reference.com...

Also makes you wonder about the word elite.
El= god
-ite= connected with or belonging to

elite
1823, from Fr. élite "selection, choice," from O.Fr. fem. pp. of elire, elisre "pick out, choose," from L. eligere "choose" (see election). Borrowed in M.E. as "chosen person," ...

[edit on 28-7-2010 by GuyverUnit I]

Originally posted by Max_TO
[
Outline of Biblical Usage:
1) (plural)
a) rulers, judges
b) divine ones
c) angels
d) gods
2) (plural intensive - singular meaning)
a) god, goddess
b) godlike one
c) works or special possessions of God
d) the (true) God
e) God

Plenty of room for aliens in all those plurals.

Originally posted by GuyverUnit I
H
Also makes you wonder about the word elite.
El= god
-ite= connected with or belonging to

Very interesting thought.

[edit on 28-7-2010 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by serbsta


Thats what I used to think. But if we are sons of God through Christ, and due to inherit it all alongside our brother (Christ), then in our spirit form we are 'gods' already as we have the ability to do all that Christs did in his name.

That opens up a lot about traditional pathetic Christian teaching that says we are struggling to get through life and then we go to heaven. My Bible say we are conquerers... in fact it says we are more than conquerors = (Hupa Nikeos. ) = super winners. Thats now, as we live on earth!

Cool aye! But what would most pastors around the world do with revelation like that?

I hope this is on topic enough...

A interesting verse that uses 'elyown' and also 'Yĕhovah'...translates as 'God' and 'Lord'....but the funny thing is they seem to be different from one another...not being the same thing.



Deuteronomy 32:8-9

When the most High (elyown) divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.

For the LORD'S portion (Yĕhovah)[is] his people; Jacob [is] the lot of his inheritance.

Deut. 32:10 goes on to say...

He found him in a desert land, and in the waste howling wilderness; he led him about, he instructed him, he kept him as the apple of his eye.

Yahweh (Lord, God?) found them?

Deut. 32:12

[So] the LORD (Yĕhovah) alone did lead him, and [there was] no strange god (el)with him.

notice 'el' here is a general word for 'god' not just the most high ect...el here is refering to 'other god' 'strange god', stating there was NO strange god 'El' with him.

Psalms 83:1

Keep not thou silence, O ELOHIYM: hold not thy peace, and be not still, O EL.

Psalms 83:18

That men may know that thou, whose name alone is YHVH, art the ELYOWN over all the earth.

It can be confusing of how to understand the many uses of words.

Im curious if the 'belief' of a 'God' and 'Lord' is possibly 'son of god' gaining inheritance from 'el' , gaining the nation of Israel. Jealousy plays a part, for this 'son Yahweh'...now 'Lord' over something (can cause greed and negative pride) was of attributes close to us humans such as fast to anger, jealousy (if there is nothing that can threaten you, if your all powerful, what is there to be jealousy of?)......and this 'lord' tries to rid of the other 'sons or lords' .

I think there is much reason to suggest 'yahweh' was not the 'most high'.

Or else we are looking at the past Canaanite God 'dying' more or less who was 'El' (father of 72 sons)...as the people move through the lands, the pick up a different spiritual wisdoms as well as languages...and we see them for a while carrying with them the other Canaanite gods too. We see them bring knowledge from Egypt as well as some rituals and practices....Yahweh then comes into the picture...to claim his inheritance given by God thee most high. It takes a long time for the people to let go of their past 'gods' and many battles and deaths in the killing of those 'gods'.

Our evolving 'gods' into 'one god'? I wonder sometimes....

Strange... around 3 years ago I asked myself what my real descriptive name was. And what came out of that was: Elzon

So Elyon and Elzon I wonder what the one letter difference means

This is a great thread... makes you think!

Originally posted by GuyverUnit I

Also makes you wonder about the word elite.

Indeed, it does.

Then I thought of ELEMENT. The word is of unknown origins. I searched for the meaning of ement or just ment. Only came up with ent:

-ent : suffix forming adjectives from nouns or verbs

So that leaves Elem + ent

Elem sounds like Elohim
ent makes it an adjective

All
elements in the universe are 'godly' ...isn't that just Divine!

Ok, so maybe it's a stretch. Try this on for size... did anybody learn either of these songs as a child in Sunday school...

Ezekiel saw the wheel... way up in the middle of the sky. Ezekiel saw the wheel... way in the middle of the sky. Now the Big Wheel turned by the faith. And the Little Wheel turned by the grace of God. It's a Wheel in a Wheel... way in the middle of the sky!

Flying saucer, anyone?

Or the one about climbing Jacob's Ladder into the Heavens?

(To board a flying saucer!)

Those two always gave me pause, even as a child.