Judge Blocks Parts Of Arizona Immigration Law

Originally posted by indigothefish
this is good news, the bill itself was not going to solve anything anyway

here is my reasoning

as i said in another thread, when you have a bug problem in your house, you don't just get rid of every bug you see on the spot, while that might work for a bug intrusion here and there, when you've got an infestation happening the solution is to call the bug man and lay out a chemical perimeter around your house which will effectively solve the problem

the illegal immigration problem in america is the same, this bill will enable police officers to stop more people based on profiling, which undoubtably will solve more illegal immigrant problems that have ALREADY immigrated here, but as long as we don't finance and focus our attention and intelligence on building up our borders and preventative measures for this problem, it will keep occuring

that is why i think this bill, racist or not, controversial or not, would not have solved our illegal immigrant probelm anyhow

all this bill was going to do was introduce into our mentality that it's ok for police and officials to question you based on how you look, or for no reason at all, ultimately these are philosophies outlined in 1984 and includes a growth of 'big brother's' powers

HOWEVER

i would like to add it is not neccessarily a good thing though, as the federal government is stating that states do not have the right to try and solve 'federal' problems, and the fact that the federal government is intervening within a states rights to govern itself in it's own rights is bad

though, in my personal opinion, the bill was not going to solve anything anyway, this is a testament to our current times

when america was founded, states were given certain rights apon which the government could not federally interfer, but i fear recent years have created the federal governments beleif that if they so choose to they can intervene in any state however they want, legally or not, they think they're the federal government so they get the final say.. which is not what was originally intended in the creation of america

so ultimately my conclusion is this, we avoided a bill that introduced 1984-like proposals, and yet we avoided it by the federal government jaming into our conciousness that it can do whatever it pleases, i don't know which is worse





[edit on 7/28/2010 by indigothefish]

[edit on 7/28/2010 by indigothefish]

I find it funny that you cmopared human psyche to bug psyche lol....your analagy fails at recognizing the obvious difference between how those two very different creatures opperate.

Humans can recognize positive and negative feedback for certain actions and well, bugs cannot. Putting the legal hammer down on illegals will be a negative feedback to their action of coming here illegaly which, If bugs had this same psyche you could in theory stomp the hell out of the bugs in your house causing the others to say "uhhh screw this place, its not worth it".

Your analagy is not practical or even realistic.

There needs to be A LOT of negative reinforcement for illegals to come here. Enough that makes it not worth their time or effort. There should be no positive feedback involved with them staying put as that is what they should naturally do anyway as this is not their country to just waltz in and out of as they please. Just as mexico is not my country to just waltz in and out of as I please.

Possibly some positive feedback for going about immigration the correct way and going through the immigration process legaly. Some kind of benefit to doing things right and practical concequence of going about it illegaly.

In fact I can't even belive this is something that is up for debate or discussion or interpretation its a pretty basic standard cut and dry text book way of enforcing action or inaction. Its done in the penal system, business sector, military, etc

I guess we can un-debunk a theory.

There is a God.

Hallelujah!!!!!!!!!

This judge should be convicted of treason, and duly executed as an enemy of the state.

Second Line.

Originally posted by Digital_Reality
I'm just confused as to why they are using all this energy to block attempts to secure the border instead of actually trying to pass a law to STOP the migration of drugs and illegals over the border.

They are literally making no attempt at solving the problem. Its almost like they want to allow the current situation to continue.

Bingo! A light should have come on over your head when you put the "period" on the end of that last sentence. You are, in fact, correct although it's not "almost like" it "is".

To address your first part, there is no need for new laws, the old ones would work just fine if they were actually enforced. Eisenhower herded about 200,000 illegals out of the country back in the fifties.

What's happening at the moment are concerted efforts to turn white America into a minority and bankrupt the nation with thousands, if not millions, of additional welfare recipients.

If perchance you're curious who might be running this show check into how the ADL is sucking up to the Hispanic community in the face of the "changing demographics". Don't take my word for it check it out for yourself.

To hedge their bet there's also the Cloward-Piven strategy to bankrupt the country. They win that way too (remember that 1% of the population controls almost 90% of the wealth).

I hope like hell no one believes me and does the research to prove me wrong. I dare you!

What you'll find is that the list of names controlling government power, Wall Street, Banking, media control or outright ownership and last but not least- the wealthiest people in America- reads like a Tel Aviv telephone book.

Odd coincidence? Sure it is just like the totally random chance the sun will rise tomorrow.

What really bothers me about this is how fast it got to court. They passed the insurance co. bailout legislation months ago, and I'm still waiting for all those promised lawsuits about that. And yet a law that essentially says, "If you think someone is here illegally, check it out." is in the courts being challenged before the ink from the governor's signature is dry.

I'm starting to think there will never be a serious legal challenge to the health care bill. The insurance companies will spend any amount to bribe whoever they need to insure the law is not challenged. They'll make it all back in the long run. Also, we will never have border security. If the borders were secure, there would be no leverage to force people to consider amnesty. That's why every administration will do whatever it can to fight any state that tries to crack down on illegal immigrants.

Congratulations, illegal immigrants! As soon as you are granted amnesty you can join the rest of the American slaves in paying the insurance compaines from 6 months after you are born till the day you die.

Originally posted by Intelearthling

Well, well, well! Looks like the pro-illegals have won their little battle for a little while. While countless illegals are in country, this judge is encouraging countless more to come here.

If the federal government don't do something about this one issue soon, Americans and legal immigrants are going to have to take matters in their own hands. There is just no way around this issue.

While some say that federal laws trump state laws, why should federal laws be trumping a law that is the mirror image of it's own?

Our elected officials had better get busy on implementing and enforcing existing laws or there's going to be a revolution in November like this nation has never seen.



cbs5.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 28/7/10 by Intelearthling]

Based on what I have heard here, this law is not just about stopping the regular illegal mexicans from being in this country and causing instabilities for them to think twice before coming here (eg. telling them you are not going to be "stable" here and that we will cause all kinds of instabilities and discomforts to discourage you from being here illegally), this law, as it was, required police officers to stop, question and examine ALL HISPANICS that "looks like" they MIGHT be here illegally, this includes US Born Citizens of the following races: Dominican, Puertoricans, Ecuadorians, Peruans, Chileans, Salvadoreans, and all others races that are hispanics. Of course, this does not stop at only hispanics, but pretty much expands to any other races that MIGHT look like they are here illegally. For, if you are hispanic, then there is a chance of about 3 times greater of a police officer stopping you than if you are a white person.

Getting stopped by the police officers based on the "Looks" of the person is unconstitutional based on my opinion. Yes, current laws ALREADY has that police officers will check you out if you are stopped due to a traffic violation or any other wrong doing, there the police officers can then find out if the person is here illegally or not. Now, having police officers stopping every Hispanics out there that MIGHT look like there are here illegal will just open up for more abuses, police brutallity and consequently open up for more wrongful lawsuits which enough of them can easily bankrupt a state.

There is so much to think about before passing a law that tells police officers its OK to discriminate against 1 or more races.

For those of you who thinks that illegal aliens are "stealing" the US Citizens jobs, do what I did, I started my own business, therefore I am self employed, I am not an "Employee" anymore, I dont have a boss breathing down my neck since I am my own boss, I set my own schedule. So, let these illegals continue being "employees" with the perils of having to answer to an "angry" boss, and you, the US citizens, just start your own business. If you dont know what to start, just think about what you like to do the most, what is your passion, and there, that's your business. In my case, what I like to do the most is repair computers and install CCTV cameras, so I opened a business based on these two services, and I have been successful running it for the past 15 years.

Illegals claim they are here to do jobs that us, US citizens would never do, such as cleaning toilets for offices, getting you hands dirty with soil, getting 5,000 ft high outside in the windows of sky scrappers cleaning windows with fragile ropes holding the "walking base", tell me, who here would want to do jobs like that at minimum wage, definitely NOT me, so I dont have a problem with them doing jobs like these that we would never do.

.................I'm very happy with the judge.

I was born and raised in Puerto Rico, I'm not an american (ALMOST NO ONE IS) My grandfather was italian so in other words I'm illegal also.

I understand that some of the illegal people here, steal, kill and do other bad things, but that's a very low % compared to all the mexican people that are in the US, I have to say most of the mexican people that I know are 10 times better hard workers than you "americans" , look at your family tree, I bet one of them came in a boat from somewhere, the real americans are indians who lived on this land before you.

Same thing is with Puerto Rico, Indians were there before anyone else. Cristobal Colon is a joke, he didnt discover anyhting.

When I first came here, my wife and I were when we started our jobs and saw how lazy SOME "americans" are they think they deserve everything without doing anything.

I dont give a po op what you say about me regarding this post, but before judging those people, look at yourself, they come here to get a better life a life that most of you dont appreciate.



[edit on 28-7-2010 by cdesigns]

Originally posted by cdesigns


I understand that some of the illegal people here, steal, kill and do other bad things, but that's a very low % compared to all the mexican people that are in the US


[edit on 28-7-2010 by cdesigns]

While a "small" percentage of them may do the things you mentioned, 100% of illegal aliens are criminals. If they were not here, that "small" % would be 0%. So any percent is too much.

And seriously, friend, I would advise laying off the superiority complex you appear to be on. It doesn't help you at all, unless you are purposely trying to get flamed.

Just sayin....

Originally posted by FNetV1


tell me, who here would want to do jobs like that at minimum wage, .

Here's the thing, those jobs pay that much because illegals will do them for that much. If there were no illegals doing them, SOMEBODY would have to do it, and in the absence of candidates they would have to raise the wages to get people to do it.

[edit on 28-7-2010 by Gigatronix]

Hi i am just the average American, Or am I?
an american is someone from America is that not true?
Most people do not realize that Mexico and Canada are also in America.
North America is a continent not just the United states and i was reading a news piece about how the united states would be different if we opened up our borders. The News piece showed a significant Decrease in Crime and Unemployment.

This law is very racist and (according to many people who reply) uneccessary and counter productive

He might have won a small battle but not the war.

This will hurt the presidents numbers even more.

70% americans support this bill

Originally posted by 2012UFO

This law is very racist and (according to many people who reply) uneccessary and counter productive

If you could link me the text from the actual bill that you find racist, and why, that'd be great thanks.

Oh and that news piece you saw? The crime would go down because suddenly millions of people aren't here illegally anymore, hence not criminals. Unemployment would go down because suddenly abunch of legal citizens appeared in the system and they all have jobs!

[edit on 28-7-2010 by Gigatronix]

reply to post by Darkrunner
Vote all you want Darkrunner it won't make a bit of difference since both parties are beholden to the same corporate interests if there were a way to profit from securing the borders then you will see something done.In the end I look at the whole arizona immigration debacle as nothing more then posturing remember Governor Brewer never really tackled this issue until she came up for reelection .So in the end she gets what she clearly wants a national stage and votes the opponents get what they want the bill is stopped for now and the illegals will continue to support them.



[edit on 083131p://0426 by mike dangerously]

[edit on 083131p://1426 by mike dangerously]

Originally posted by Gigatronix ...
Problem 3: Ok no more free healthcare, no driving, immediate deportation if caught. Ok well now we've got a bunch of unemployed, sick, desperate, paranoid, illegal people. ANybody wanna take a wild stab at the percentage of people that will commit another crime as a result of these dire circumstances? I'd be willing to bet that a fair amount will pack up and go back to wherever they came from. But I'd also be willing to bet that a comparable number, will try and stay. Because they tasted the good life ya know, their used to being here, all their friends and family are here now. Plus they will have legal friends and family that are sympathetic to their situation. So problem 3 is you're going to have signifigant amoutns of people that won't be easily removed from our country. This will lead to resentment and fear and paranoia for everybody. ...

Well THIS is not a problem worth worrying about. Bring 'em on! If we have to fight to get invaders our of our country, we'll fight. We have the guns and the spirit to do it.

They're already playing the games to glom onto the good life here. The only difference is that in the case you are imagining, we could act constructively to put an end to it.

Give Americans chance, and we can do wonders!

There are other consequences of this law and the ruling by the court today that no one has really considered at this point in time. President Obama, has choosen to make this a case to go after, taking on the state of Arizona, in an attempt to build up his popularity among the hispanic community and other minority groups, in the process alienating the rest of the country in the process along with those immigrants who have legally entered into the country. Todays ruling is only going to further infuriate the majority of the population who are for this legislation, as they recognize that the federal government is not choosing to enforce the law when it comes to illegale immigration. It is believed that this is going to add more weight against the democrats and the sitting president in the elections that are coming up this November and in 2012. The people are tired of this issue, we are sitting on a powder keg of violence, where we hear every day, and you can not travel via airline or bus, or train, without being reminded about the security threat of the country, yet when it comes to the most basic of all security stuff, to secure the borders are being ignored.
The other part, from what I have read, is that there are militia groups heading down to the border. As the government is neither choosing to enforce the law and fighting all means to stem the tide, it is my belief that things are going to get more violent between the illegale immigrants and the militia members, who will open fire, if out of frustration of the innaction of the government to secure the borders. I believe that there will be back lashes out against minority groups both legal and illegale in the united states and it will continue to escelate until the federal government is forced to act.

reply to post by mike dangerously

Governor Brewer never really tackled this issue until she came up for relection.So in the end she gets what she clearly wants a national stage

It really surprises me that people believed the Arizona legislature was really working for the people.

It was all a show. Politicians are politicians.

Originally posted by Intelearthling

Well, well, well! Looks like the pro-illegals have won their little battle for a little while. While countless illegals are in country, this judge is encouraging countless more to come here.

Ever stop to think we're patriots rather than pro-illegals? People who can clearly see how the measures of SB1070 cross well beyond immigration and directly affect the rights of legal citizens.

So can one be a suspect? Does profiling happen on an indian resevation,a white neighborhood or black neighborhood. Just throwing out some food for thought. Nobody says you have to eat it.

Originally posted by 2012UFO
Hi i am just the average American, Or am I?
an american is someone from America is that not true?
Most people do not realize that Mexico and Canada are also in America.
North America is a continent not just the United states and i was reading a news piece about how the united states would be different if we opened up our borders. The News piece showed a significant Decrease in Crime and Unemployment.

This law is very racist and (according to many people who reply) uneccessary and counter productive

Heh I guess the Mexicans would now be on welfare in the US. Since their presence would be declared legal, that's a decrease in crime. And I guess they would have less unemployment too. By the way I've never seen this "news piece" and how they figure there would be less unemployment. At least among former US citizens, there would probably be more unemployment.

What you want is the legalization of illegals who are overwhelmingly brown skinned. I think that's racist. What do the non-brown-skinned people get out of it?

I think the USA should also stop supporting the causes of turmoil in Mexico, so the Mexicans can stay there and have a decent life in their country. To destroy Mexico, and then compensate by letting the Mexicans destroy the United States, is wrong. Both parts of it are wrong, both parts should be fixed.

reply to post by mryanbrown


So you would support a law that deported illegals and took all neccessary steps to prevent more from coming, as long as it didn't effect the rights of citizens?