Judge Blocks Parts Of Arizona Immigration Law, page 6
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reply posted on 28-7-2010 @ 06:38 PM by Sly1one
Originally posted by indigothefish
this is good news, the bill itself was not going to solve anything anyway

here is my reasoning

as i said in another thread, when you have a bug problem in your house, you don't just get rid of every bug you see on the spot, while that might work for a bug intrusion here and there, when you've got an infestation happening the solution is to call the bug man and lay out a chemical perimeter around your house which will effectively solve the problem

the illegal immigration problem in america is the same, this bill will enable police officers to stop more people based on profiling, which undoubtably will solve more illegal immigrant problems that have ALREADY immigrated here, but as long as we don't finance and focus our attention and intelligence on building up our borders and preventative measures for this problem, it will keep occuring

that is why i think this bill, racist or not, controversial or not, would not have solved our illegal immigrant probelm anyhow

all this bill was going to do was introduce into our mentality that it's ok for police and officials to question you based on how you look, or for no reason at all, ultimately these are philosophies outlined in 1984 and includes a growth of 'big brother's' powers

HOWEVER

i would like to add it is not neccessarily a good thing though, as the federal government is stating that states do not have the right to try and solve 'federal' problems, and the fact that the federal government is intervening within a states rights to govern itself in it's own rights is bad

though, in my personal opinion, the bill was not going to solve anything anyway, this is a testament to our current times

when america was founded, states were given certain rights apon which the government could not federally interfer, but i fear recent years have created the federal governments beleif that if they so choose to they can intervene in any state however they want, legally or not, they think they're the federal government so they get the final say.. which is not what was originally intended in the creation of america

so ultimately my conclusion is this, we avoided a bill that introduced 1984-like proposals, and yet we avoided it by the federal government jaming into our conciousness that it can do whatever it pleases, i don't know which is worse





[edit on 7/28/2010 by indigothefish]

[edit on 7/28/2010 by indigothefish]


I find it funny that you cmopared human psyche to bug psyche lol....your analagy fails at recognizing the obvious difference between how those two very different creatures opperate.

Humans can recognize positive and negative feedback for certain actions and well, bugs cannot. Putting the legal hammer down on illegals will be a negative feedback to their action of coming here illegaly which, If bugs had this same psyche you could in theory stomp the hell out of the bugs in your house causing the others to say "uhhh screw this place, its not worth it".

Your analagy is not practical or even realistic.

There needs to be A LOT of negative reinforcement for illegals to come here. Enough that makes it not worth their time or effort. There should be no positive feedback involved with them staying put as that is what they should naturally do anyway as this is not their country to just waltz in and out of as they please. Just as mexico is not my country to just waltz in and out of as I please.

Possibly some positive feedback for going about immigration the correct way and going through the immigration process legaly. Some kind of benefit to doing things right and practical concequence of going about it illegaly.

In fact I can't even belive this is something that is up for debate or discussion or interpretation its a pretty basic standard cut and dry text book way of enforcing action or inaction. Its done in the penal system, business sector, military, etc


reply posted on 28-7-2010 @ 07:02 PM by CmdrZero
Originally posted by Digital_Reality
I'm just confused as to why they are using all this energy to block attempts to secure the border instead of actually trying to pass a law to STOP the migration of drugs and illegals over the border.

They are literally making no attempt at solving the problem. Its almost like they want to allow the current situation to continue.


Bingo! A light should have come on over your head when you put the "period" on the end of that last sentence. You are, in fact, correct although it's not "almost like" it "is".

To address your first part, there is no need for new laws, the old ones would work just fine if they were actually enforced. Eisenhower herded about 200,000 illegals out of the country back in the fifties.

What's happening at the moment are concerted efforts to turn white America into a minority and bankrupt the nation with thousands, if not millions, of additional welfare recipients.

If perchance you're curious who might be running this show check into how the ADL is sucking up to the Hispanic community in the face of the "changing demographics". Don't take my word for it check it out for yourself.

To hedge their bet there's also the Cloward-Piven strategy to bankrupt the country. They win that way too (remember that 1% of the population controls almost 90% of the wealth).

I hope like hell no one believes me and does the research to prove me wrong. I dare you!

What you'll find is that the list of names controlling government power, Wall Street, Banking, media control or outright ownership and last but not least- the wealthiest people in America- reads like a Tel Aviv telephone book.

Odd coincidence? Sure it is just like the totally random chance the sun will rise tomorrow.


reply posted on 28-7-2010 @ 07:13 PM by FNetV1
Originally posted by Intelearthling

Well, well, well! Looks like the pro-illegals have won their little battle for a little while. While countless illegals are in country, this judge is encouraging countless more to come here.

If the federal government don't do something about this one issue soon, Americans and legal immigrants are going to have to take matters in their own hands. There is just no way around this issue.

While some say that federal laws trump state laws, why should federal laws be trumping a law that is the mirror image of it's own?

Our elected officials had better get busy on implementing and enforcing existing laws or there's going to be a revolution in November like this nation has never seen.



cbs5.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 28/7/10 by Intelearthling]

Based on what I have heard here, this law is not just about stopping the regular illegal mexicans from being in this country and causing instabilities for them to think twice before coming here (eg. telling them you are not going to be "stable" here and that we will cause all kinds of instabilities and discomforts to discourage you from being here illegally), this law, as it was, required police officers to stop, question and examine ALL HISPANICS that "looks like" they MIGHT be here illegally, this includes US Born Citizens of the following races: Dominican, Puertoricans, Ecuadorians, Peruans, Chileans, Salvadoreans, and all others races that are hispanics. Of course, this does not stop at only hispanics, but pretty much expands to any other races that MIGHT look like they are here illegally. For, if you are hispanic, then there is a chance of about 3 times greater of a police officer stopping you than if you are a white person.

Getting stopped by the police officers based on the "Looks" of the person is unconstitutional based on my opinion. Yes, current laws ALREADY has that police officers will check you out if you are stopped due to a traffic violation or any other wrong doing, there the police officers can then find out if the person is here illegally or not. Now, having police officers stopping every Hispanics out there that MIGHT look like there are here illegal will just open up for more abuses, police brutallity and consequently open up for more wrongful lawsuits which enough of them can easily bankrupt a state.

There is so much to think about before passing a law that tells police officers its OK to discriminate against 1 or more races.

For those of you who thinks that illegal aliens are "stealing" the US Citizens jobs, do what I did, I started my own business, therefore I am self employed, I am not an "Employee" anymore, I dont have a boss breathing down my neck since I am my own boss, I set my own schedule. So, let these illegals continue being "employees" with the perils of having to answer to an "angry" boss, and you, the US citizens, just start your own business. If you dont know what to start, just think about what you like to do the most, what is your passion, and there, that's your business. In my case, what I like to do the most is repair computers and install CCTV cameras, so I opened a business based on these two services, and I have been successful running it for the past 15 years.

Illegals claim they are here to do jobs that us, US citizens would never do, such as cleaning toilets for offices, getting you hands dirty with soil, getting 5,000 ft high outside in the windows of sky scrappers cleaning windows with fragile ropes holding the "walking base", tell me, who here would want to do jobs like that at minimum wage, definitely NOT me, so I dont have a problem with them doing jobs like these that we would never do.


reply posted on 28-7-2010 @ 08:01 PM by mike dangerously
reply to post by Darkrunner
Vote all you want Darkrunner it won't make a bit of difference since both parties are beholden to the same corporate interests if there were a way to profit from securing the borders then you will see something done.In the end I look at the whole arizona immigration debacle as nothing more then posturing remember Governor Brewer never really tackled this issue until she came up for reelection .So in the end she gets what she clearly wants a national stage and votes the opponents get what they want the bill is stopped for now and the illegals will continue to support them.



[edit on 083131p://0426 by mike dangerously]

[edit on 083131p://1426 by mike dangerously]


reply posted on 28-7-2010 @ 08:02 PM by sdcigarpig
There are other consequences of this law and the ruling by the court today that no one has really considered at this point in time. President Obama, has choosen to make this a case to go after, taking on the state of Arizona, in an attempt to build up his popularity among the hispanic community and other minority groups, in the process alienating the rest of the country in the process along with those immigrants who have legally entered into the country. Todays ruling is only going to further infuriate the majority of the population who are for this legislation, as they recognize that the federal government is not choosing to enforce the law when it comes to illegale immigration. It is believed that this is going to add more weight against the democrats and the sitting president in the elections that are coming up this November and in 2012. The people are tired of this issue, we are sitting on a powder keg of violence, where we hear every day, and you can not travel via airline or bus, or train, without being reminded about the security threat of the country, yet when it comes to the most basic of all security stuff, to secure the borders are being ignored.
The other part, from what I have read, is that there are militia groups heading down to the border. As the government is neither choosing to enforce the law and fighting all means to stem the tide, it is my belief that things are going to get more violent between the illegale immigrants and the militia members, who will open fire, if out of frustration of the innaction of the government to secure the borders. I believe that there will be back lashes out against minority groups both legal and illegale in the united states and it will continue to escelate until the federal government is forced to act.


reply posted on 28-7-2010 @ 08:06 PM by jam321
reply to post by mike dangerously


Governor Brewer never really tackled this issue until she came up for relection.So in the end she gets what she clearly wants a national stage


It really surprises me that people believed the Arizona legislature was really working for the people.

It was all a show. Politicians are politicians.


reply posted on 28-7-2010 @ 08:09 PM by Gigatronix
reply to post by mryanbrown


So you would support a law that deported illegals and took all neccessary steps to prevent more from coming, as long as it didn't effect the rights of citizens?
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