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Another thought on disclosure

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posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 10:05 AM
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So I have been thinking a lot about disclosure lately. We all want it to happen for various reasons. We either want to know what exotic technologies our government has been hiding from us, to just have confirmation we are not alone, or maybe we think we are ready as a society to take the next step into the unknown etc, etc, etc. Every year someone gives us some date, time and place disclosure will happen and it doesn’t and life goes on while we all hope one day it will happen.

Though our government has not disclosed anything relating to ufo’s, other countries have. But all they have released is sightings. We already have sightings. There are so many pictures, videos and eyewitness accounts that have never been debunked. But where is the official contact with other species? It could be the governments of the world have yet to release any of that or maybe they haven’t been properly introduced.

Have you ever thought about what the alien races think about this? Have you considered that the aliens might not think we are ready for us to meet yet? From their standpoint, we still might be too primitive as a species to handle “first contact” just yet. We can’t get along with ourselves much less a whole galaxy of civilizations that we do not know about. There is still racism and bigotry plaguing our society so add alien species into that puzzle. It could be a recipe for disaster.

Though it could make us realize the universe does not revolve around us and dramatically change our way of thinking about everything it could make things a lot worse. Just maybe the aliens know this and will not officially show themselves until we as a society improve. Maybe we should think about how we can get along with ourselves and improving our world before we can join the alien races out there.

This is just a thought I had. I could totally be wrong but I wanted to come at this from a different angle. Any thoughts and comments would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for listening.

-CoffeeGeek




posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 11:19 AM
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I think many of the religious zealots would declare a new holy war and the new age crystal gazers would be all to ready to get down on bended knee and worship them as gods.

The rational people will simply be caught in the middle of the crossfire. Though some of us may be ready for disclosure and to take that next step in our galactic evolution as a species, we still have far too much dead weight anchoring us to our primitive past.

If we are being visited by an advanced, space faring race... they know this already. I highly doubt humans would have any control over disclosure. They probably aren't our strings to pull.

IRM



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 11:23 AM
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I think that most of us that want some form of disclosure, want it because we would be on our BEST behavior. This would hopefully spark change in our leaders, to figure out they can't be moronic idiots all the time.

How embarrassing would it be. They would not stick around, if they really "knew" us. haha



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 11:28 AM
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Maybe the 'aliens' couldn't give a damn if there's disclosure or not. I'm sure they'll just potter around still doing what they're doing now. (Whatever it is they do.)



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 11:52 AM
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I am not totally convinced that:

1) The US government even has much to disclose other than "we don't understand what's going on"

2) Even if it did, that "disclosure" would make people's lives better

Even buying into the "Basset-style" disclosure paradigm, I still don't think the government will "disclose" because of somegathering at the Press Club, or 20 people with signs outside the WHite House, of a few thousand letters. I think it would take a mass sighting or something else to totally force their hand, and even then they'd probably still try to sweep it under the rug.

[edit on 28-7-2010 by The Little Penguin]



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 01:16 PM
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What if disclosure reveals that nobody knows anything about aliens at all? Maybe it's all been an exercise in psyops and propaganda? Perhaps an element of the USAF have been writing the script for an 'alien presence' on Earth?

Maybe we don't know anything more about UFOs and 'flying saucers' than we did in the 40s.

There's some suggestive evidence that the USAF (AFOSI) has generated a lot of modern day concepts and myths about 'bad' aliens. Why would they do this?



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 01:30 PM
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reply to post by Kandinsky
 


b/c the "grey's" are the bad guys...lets jus for one min think outside of what we know...

ready?...

ok here we go...the god in the bible is not a god but an advanced intelligent being and or species trying to play a god...what would make one think this nothing the god in the bible does is outside of impossible for a being or beings...also god does and has so many flaws it couldnt possibly be a "god"

there is supposed to be a battle between good and evil...in some mythologies and probably all there is a battle between "gods" and "demons" if "greys" are extradimensional beings they are the bad guys why b/c our gov. has already been warned not to do business with them but our gov. greddy and power hungry as it is wants there technology!

when the "gods" return it will be to battle the "grey's" i'm guessing the gods are humanly but taller and more muscular kinda like the gods of asgard but they dont fly around like thor they have ships..and i'm gonna say that the greys are there demons

why? b/c the greys are a neuisance throughout the universe back stabbers!




posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 02:25 PM
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reply to post by metalholic
 



ok here we go...the god in the bible is not a god but an advanced intelligent being and or species trying to play a god...what would make one think this nothing the god in the bible does is outside of impossible for a being or beings...also god does and has so many flaws it couldnt possibly be a "god"


I'm not even close to buying into the Bible God. From that point, it's more plausible that your 'intelligent species' have played God.

To be clearer, I don't really believe that God or intelligent lifeforms have created us. If there are critters out there, or visiting here, they've probably come into being by natural processes...just like us.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 06:25 PM
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reply to post by Kandinsky
 


but there is to much that says we havent evolved 100% from apes! creationist and evolutionist could give a clearer picture if they just combine theories! thats all they gotta do and everythign makes sense and get answered!

but aslong as no one wants to accept an outside hand in evolution keep fighting over theories



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 09:02 PM
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Originally posted by CoffeeGeek

Have you considered that the aliens might not think we are ready for us to meet yet?


It has been my opinion for some time now that the UFO occupants are complicit in the cover-up, possibly even to the extent that they have threatened our governments with dire consequences should their presence here be made public.

To be completely honest when I really think about it the whole situation terrifies me, and I think that anyone who comes to the conclusion that we are being visited by advanced extraterrestrial life and isn't at least a little apprehensive about it hasn't fully contemplated the consequences of that revelation for the future of our species; furthermore, based on reports of human abduction and mutilation it is my opinion that at least some of our visitors are far from benevolent and this only serves to compound my fears.

Don't get me wrong, in spite of my reservations I yearn for disclosure as much as anyone else; however I can't help but think that once we have lost our cosmic innocence and the thrill of knowing "we were right!" wears off we may end up wishing that we could return to the simpler times of the past.

But hey! nobody would be happier than myself if I should be proved wrong about any and all of the above.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 10:21 PM
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The reason for a lack of disclosure is this: it would probably really do harm to any type of logic behind religion, which is a huge part of our society. Government fears the loss of religion (in most countries) because even if the government themselves are secular, the people believe strongly in some type of God, and I think the fear in government is that if we are NOT the only species a big hole gets driven through any "logic"(i know there's no logic involved in religion) involved in religion because there is no longer one species made in God's image.

People would start losing their minds, there may be riots, and widespread loss of faith in a higher being may cause huge amounts of violence because one of the biggest oppressors a government can have to keep people in line is the idea that God knows anything we do. Once that's out the window, who knows what happens next?

Not to mention that after disclosure, religious freaks would start calling for us to obliertate these people in the name of "God", start another crusade. Neo-conservatives who want to bomb Iran? Imagine another species, much more advanced than us. They would probably assume that no matter what that species does, it will be a threat.

It would end up as a massive embarassment to our species. In some ways, I don't ever want to see a first contact scenario. If they don't come looking for a fight, somehow, we'd manage to give them one anyway. Even if they wanted to give us the cure for cancer and AIDS.



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 02:19 AM
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The problem with the "disclosure" idea is that it presumes the military and/or government is some kind of homogeneous clandestine database. It's the idea that many people in the military are somehow knowledgeable and involved in the centralized cover-up of what is known about aliens.

The reality is, probably, far more disturbing than the idea someone/something has absolute control and authority.

Different ranking officers from different time periods have shown interest in UFO phenomena and diverted funds to research it. Perhaps a congressman is also interested and starts a different program (unaware of the parallel program, because he doesn't need to know about it) - perhaps the officer happens to have some political friends to enlarge his project. These programs run until conclusion and then are terminated, the gathered material being filed and destroyed as per the CO's orders and protocol.

Several years later, an officer takes an interest... rinse-lather-repeat.

Since each of these programs are separate of each other, it's unlikely that a centralized knowledge of UFO phenomena and ETs has really been developed. It's also unlikely an material recovered has been given extensive analysis. Most of the programs aimed at studying the phenomena are likely pilot programs designed to assess the potential value of developing a lasting recovery and research program. Presuming the technology was advanced (or perhaps very simple, we just don't have the means of reproducing it due to cost of materials or lack of methods) - it is unlikely they were found to be of much value. Any further programs would be recovery-only programs, and likely have been stripped down to simply a set of recovery protocols that the teams responsible for recovering normal stuff follow when encountering the not-so-normal.

So, you end up with no real centralized knowledge of what has been done, where to begin looking for what has been done, what is known, who knows what is known, and so on.

As for whether or not aliens would want to meet us?

I find it silly that we somehow think poorly of ourselves for killing each other over resources, when it seems to be the nature of life to consume itself to some degree or another. Why would aliens look down on us for being like life?

Of course, part of being life is preferring to stay alive - so that could explain the lack of an up-front "hey, how are you?" meeting. Sure - they may have space travel - something we don't know how to do - but it doesn't inherently mean they have better defenses or weapons - or that they are not afraid of us for some other reason, entirely.

It could also be just the way of life once you've been zooming through space for a while. Civilizations like ours may not be uncommon at all. When you come to a picnic table with ants on it - move to another table. Sure - you may or may not have the ability to get rid of the ants, but is it really worth it in the end with a perfectly good table sitting right next to it? Whether the "ants" are advanced or not - space is very, very big - if someone's already there, just go somewhere else. There's not necessarily a reason or need to try and talk to them.

I think we try to project our own sense of ideology onto our race, when we have no idea how a sentient species should behave (spare for what various religious advise). We have no real models to live up to - no 'parental figures' other than those of our own species.

Of course - basing our behavior off of the behavior of another species is probably even less healthy. Biology necessitates different behaviors. Ignoring that is only going to cause trouble.



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 02:24 AM
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Perhaps the government avoids Disclosure because they simply do not have the answers that would be asked of them.

and its true.... nobody ever takes into account how the ET's would feel about this, ..... Whenever there is a large sighting, what is the first thing that happens ??? Fighter Jet's are deployed to chase down these objects, I"ve also seen reports of them tracking crashing UFO's, meaning they were probably shot down.

If were constantly trying to shoot them down, of course their not going to land and make themselves public, they think they would probably get annihilated ASAP.



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 03:35 AM
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I believe if the Gov just dropped all whatever it is they have out into the open, mankind would unleash all the evil it posses to obtain and use whatever was dropped at our feet, and that would be the end of us. Maybe it's a good thing some stuff isn't out there for all to see.

Yes I would love to dive into all the stuff they might have hidden from us (example the huge warehouse at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark) but it's hidden for a very good reason. I do hope they slowly reveal a little at a time for us all to wrap our heads around before moving on to the next thing.



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 04:51 AM
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reply to post by Aim64C
 
You raise some interesting points in there


It seems like a lot of people have an idea that there's multi-departmental cohesion in each of the armed forces and intelligence services. History shows this isn't the case. Likewise, the USAF isn't centralising its files and information with the Army. They could all have missing pieces of the greater puzzle, but agendas, rivalry, different political positions and lord knows what else kills communication dead.

Two examples: NASA's files on Kecksburg have been lost to an ex-employee. He took them out and didn't return them. Dr David Clarke in England, discovered that 1950s nose-camera footage of flying saucers was destroyed in an MOD clear out in the early 60s.

People have this BS idea that shady forces have been riding us all to NWO Heaven for 2000 years. They can't organise a war or an economy without screwing up. When they do screw up, NWO fans and conspiracy fantasists say it's 'part of the plan.' It isn't. It's lack of communication and human nature.



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 05:46 AM
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What makes me sick about tthe disclosure issue is, we have demanded it, and it has not occured. In a democracy this is frankly unacceptable. Perhaps it is time that we all took the power we are supposed to hold, and condensed it in order to FORCE the governments of the democratic world, to bow down and do thier jobs... that is, what ever we tell them to damned well do.
They dont mind spending uncountable resources that WE pay for on the subject, on tech and so forth, but we actualy see none of it, and largely speaking, all they do with the technology they build is finding better ways to keep us in our homes doing the damned crossword. Well how about this. We need a law, in every democratic nation which prevents entirely a government, an agency of that government , or any subcontractor of that government from spending money on something which does not directly , visibly and massively benifit the people?How about a law which prevents the people from being lied to, from being hoodwinked, how about a law which sees secrecy as treason, and tries it with the penalty of death? That might get us somewhere.America deserves ALL the information that the Pentagon and thier affiliates have EVER had on UFO, related tech, and any craft which has ever been mistaken for a UFO and covered up to prevent leaks. Why ? Because you damned well payed for it, and you deserve to know what your money got spent on. Here in the UK we deserve everything that MI5 and 6 have in a similar vein. Our government OWES us either the money back, or the information we demand. I believe we should have access and right of participation in any program , group, study , or research into the issue, and that any who stand in the way of that are promoting tyranny and must be stamped on , preferably on the neck.



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 04:18 AM
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reply to post by TrueBrit
 


Democracy doesn't quite work like that. Much less a democratically elected republic.

A few people on a forum can't stand up and demand action, and expect it to happen. Nor can they organize a protest of even a million people, and expect anything to happen.

You would have to petition the act through Congress, and have them attach a few hundred pages of pork funding to it before it could go through authorizing the public release of various documents.

Technically - I couldn't 'release' anything as mundane as the "plan of the day" (even if it was four years old) to public sources, as it's classified as "Unclassified: For Official Use Only." So - there's a lot of red-tape there to get hemmed up in when it comes to releasing documents.

Anyway - You can't stamp your feet like a child and act like your demands are supreme when the rest of the nation is not all that motivated to change things. Revolutions every now and then are healthy - but only if for the right reasons, and only if you have an end-game.

Revolting and finding out we DO have alien technology of unimaginable value, and compromising all of the security erected around it (intelligence networks, physical security, etc) - then what? Better learn some Cantonese or Mandarin. Those guys will be coming right on over to ... assist us in our time of great trial and discovery. Expect India to tell them "like hell" and to have a re-emerging Russia and Britain also trying to get a piece of the action.

Not as simple as "kill the government." If it were - it would have been done already, there are plenty of people itching at the trigger to do it in many different ways. The problem is the end-game. How do you maintain order? How do you protect your people and nation? What about all of the programs and things currently in progress by this government (some of them you may even like and agree with)?

I mean - I'm perfectly fine with forging my own way in a 'brave new world' that verges on anarchy (and focuses only on local forms of government and community organizing). But I'm not really convinced it is all that good of an idea.



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 05:02 AM
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Some people may know this world as secret. The government always hiding the truth, living in lies. But what he doesn't know is that we already know we are not alone. Ejypt in side the pryimids, the drawing of people all point up that's because aliens came to earth we didn't know what they are, they helped us, helped build the pryimids come on humans lift stone that big by them selfs. we have a god yes that's right? Alien race help us we thought to wright a bible and call aliens a god. Why do the people pray and look up? They look up to the sky where ufos fly. Our god is an alien!



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 09:17 AM
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reply to post by Aim64C
 


You are correct, democracy does not work like that. Lets be honest, it doesnt work at all. It advertises power to the people, but hides its adgendas behind closed doors , asks for people to get involved, but shuns them when they poke around something that government would prefer kept secret, justifies millions of dollars being syphoned off to pay for projects YOU will never know about, by claiming that shadowy figures in rags pose a genuine threat to one of the greatest military forces ever formed.
Quite frankly , government is broken, and absolute chaos, anarchy , total dissolution of all law would be better than pinning hope on a sham.



posted on Jul, 30 2010 @ 01:56 PM
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reply to post by TrueBrit
 


There are many different facets of the government and the agencies that have been established.

If you don't believe terrorists are a valid threat to you - then you've got another thing coming. There's no way a magical government agency could pop up out of nowhere and keep someone with half a creative brain and malicious intent from blowing some buildings up.

That said - if that's your "the government wants us to need them" reasoning - you're horribly confused.

What will we do without social security? Without federal funding for schools?

You don't need to jump to terrorists and 'Disclosure.' - They already have some damned good controls in place.

The problem with trying to say "democracy doesn't work" is that we are not a democracy. We are a democratically elected republic. When we do not involve ourselves in the government and representative processes - we allow our elected officials to do whatever they want (more or less).

Now, as for documents and programs kept secret from the public; again, aliens/UFOs/super-planes are the least of your worries. What you need to be worried about is campaign funding records, the bills congress passes (reading those before they pass is a MUST), etc.

There's a reason various military projects are classified. Because they need to be. I will not expect you to understand, but suffice to say that you don't need to know how to build state-of-the-art radar absorbent materials and how to model radar interactions with materials in a virtual environment. You've no reason to access those records. You are relatively harmless with them - you're not going to build a B-2 in your garage. The Chinese, however, can build much larger garages, and if you can read them - so can they.

"Well, then let them build our latest and greatest technology."

Alright - then our time of anarchy will soon come to an end and the Chinese would bring us under their government in some way, shape, or form (and if not China - some other global power).

Much more pertinent to the function of government is the completeness of public records on our public servants.




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