Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality

There is a time and a place for all things, and view points more so than anything else. The question would be if she was to go into being a counsler for say a public school would she be able to do her job, with an open mind, not letting her own personal belief interfere with the help that she could give to a student who is confused about his or her sexuality, or would those views come into conflict with such, leading to her to give bad advice to a student, possibly doing far greater harm to that student. What if it were your child, you be comfortable with her doing such, if your child came out to her, or would you prefer a counsler who would be able to assit the student with their problems with no bias about such, treating all problems with the same care and compassion? Now if the student was planning to be a counsler in a religious school or institution, then I would not see where the view points would come into conflict, but in the public setting, there is always that chance there that they would, making her unsuitable to working in that kind of environment.

Let's look at it another way. If she was a KKK member and said the things she has said in class and in her writtings about black people. Would she be expelled too? Or would she be given a diploma, knowing her biased ass will some day tell a N-word that they are going to hell?

I doubt she would be able to graduate as a guidence couselor.

[edit on 28-7-2010 by Nutter]

Key here:

"The Counselor Education Program is grounded in the core principles of the American Counseling Association and the American School Counselor Association, which defines the roles and responsibilities of professional counselors in its code of ethics," the statement read. "The code is included in the curriculum of the counseling education program, which states that counselors in training have the same responsibility as professional counselors to understand and follow the ACA Code of Ethics."

If the student's beliefs interfere with her ability to counsel a client, then it is the duty of the program to address it. If this is a professional who's ethics are called into question, the duty then falls upon the ASCA.

The student voiced her belief about homosexuality in a manner that raises concerns about her ability to counsel, impartially.

It appears to me the school is following procedure and implementing the correct course of action for the student that the Association would demand of any accredited program and of any professional in the field. The student was asked to participate in diversity/sensitivity courses. She needs to, IMO, if she plans to pursue counseling.

______________________________
ed: condensed for wordiness

[edit on 29-7-2010 by LadySkadi]

Originally posted by Lostinthedarkness
What you have here in my honest opinion is the School is forcing its belief system upon Ms. Keeton .

There is a difference between what your religious beliefs are and what your actions are.

She has already proven what her actions would be in her class disscusions and class work. What more proof do you need?

If I want to believe in a man in the sky that's my constitutional RIGHT same if you want to believe in the almighty dollar or a test tube in a chemists hand that is YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT !!!

But if your belief goes against your profession why would you continue to go into said profession? Money? If so, isn't that a bigger sin?

And that's exactly what this school is doing forcing it down her throat !

No it is not. There is a set curriculum that she has agreed to prescribe to by giving the university her money. If she doesn't like the curriculum, then go to another school. Preferably Jerry Falwell's school of the fundamentalist in VA.

[edit on 28-7-2010 by Nutter]

reply to post by tothetenthpower


So, you being a gay man, would have been comfortable in your teen years to go to this "counselor" to ask for counseling? Knowing that she has stated that your condition is sinnful and a choice that you have made.

I will defend her right to her beliefs too. But not when it comes to her "counseling" others.

[edit on 28-7-2010 by Nutter]

Originally posted by Annee
If you are a counselor - - you counsel EVERYONE

If your beliefs get in the way - - you find a program agreeing with your beliefs.

Pretty simple.

Counselors learn (eventually) to take each case as it comes and counsel based on the client's life, not the counselor's life. Personal belief should NEVER interfere and if it does, the counselor is mandated by professional ethics to refer the case.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
I may not agree with what she says.

However I will defend to death her right to say it. This is just wrong though.

I mean it's one thing to tell the students they should be more open minded when it comes to such things however it's disgusting to make them take remedial courses to "fix" themselves.

The PC crowd continues to amaze me mroe and more.

~Keeper

Keeper,
this case seems to be less about the student "fixing" her belief andmore about ethics and how to manage personal/professional matters, in the counseling field. Personal beliefs do not enter into a counselor/client relationship and if they do, it violates standards to some degree. It appears the student has already done this in the program and it is the program's responsibility per the ASCA to address professional ethics. The student was asked to take diversity/sensitivity courses. She was not asked to change her views. However, if she cannot reconcile the difference between personal and professional then she is a risk, as a counselor.
_________________________________________________________________
ETA: *speaking as a counselor, my personal view, yadda yadda

[edit on 29-7-2010 by LadySkadi]

Originally posted by c g henderson


Anyway, that makes no sense. A school should graduate someone with faulty understandings of the field they are in because of religious beliefs and then let employers sort it out later?

The girl does not have a faulty understanding of the field she is studying, she simply disagrees with it.

As long as the girl puts the expected answer down on the test paper to show she knows the material, that is all that should matter.

Her personal beliefs are not being tested by the school curriculum.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


Her personal beliefs are not being tested but her professional ethics are... and should be.

Originally posted by LadySkadi

Keeper,
this case seems to be less about the student "fixing" her belief andmore about ethics and how to manage personal/professional matters, in the counseling field. Personal beliefs do not enter into a counselor/client relationship and if they do, it violates standards to some degree. It appears the student has already done this in the program and it is the program's responsibility per the ASCA to address professional ethics. The student was asked to take diversity/sensitivity courses. She was not asked to change her views. However, if she cannot reconcile the difference between personal and professional then she is a risk, as a counselor.

Perhaps this girl would have been wise to keep her mouth shut but it really matters very little. Tons of people take those classes and other classes for professional counselors that do not always agree with everything they are taught. They do it to get the degree to go to work in that field because that is what interests them.

After they start their practice they are free to use their beliefs to judge when to apply what they learned and not to apply it, or in what ways to apply it. Some people want to change the system from within if they think they have a better way. To me this is right and acceptable. Nothing is written in stone. This is exactly how that same field has had advances from failures of it's past.

All beliefs color personal judgment in decision making. I do not care how many ethics classes you take or you pass, this won't change.

If your saying she would be unethical in her cookie cutter professional opinions to her patients because they are colored with her religious belief then I would say you are wrong.

I would want a professional councilor with a strong religious and god given moral background rather than anyone else. I would trust them more though I may not always agree with the advice.

I have been both a councilor and a patient in my life and I strongly believe that this is not such a bad thing.

There are many professional christian councilors that do not break ethics codes of conduct and yet, are very good councilors even though their advice may be colored with religious views.

[edit on 28-7-2010 by JohnPhoenix]

reply to post by JohnPhoenix

After they start their practice they are free to use their beliefs to judge when to apply what they learned and not to apply it, or in what ways to apply it. Some people want to change the system from within if they think they have a better way. To me this is right and acceptable. Nothing is written in stone. This is exactly how that same field has had advances from failures of it's past.

I've no objection to this...However, it does not apply to the student in question. The student has her professional ethics called into question. That's the issue she faces and that is what she must reconcile - personal belief and professional duty.

_________________________________
ETA:
Just saw the addition you made to your post. I've no comment as everything after this paragraph I've quoted is your personal opinion about the type of counselor you would want and thus, not something I'll address since I believe that counselor/client relationships are based on many things, one of which is the client's ability to feel safe and trustful with/of the counselor they choose.


[edit on 28-7-2010 by LadySkadi]

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
The girl does not have a faulty understanding of the field she is studying, she simply disagrees with it.

I am afraid you are not correct. Developmental psychology would not agree with you on that. Unfortunately in her coursework, she is going to run into the fact that sexual identity issues arise long before many kids are even aware there is any choice. The fact that she is failing her coursework due to this belief goes a long way to prove she lacks a fundamental understanding of sexuality and developing minds.

As long as the girl puts the expected answer down on the test paper to show she knows the material, that is all that should matter.

Unfortunately the "correct answer" is going to many times require an understanding that sexual proclivities precede choice. So in the name of her strong Christian faith, you suggest she lie in order to obtain what would then be fraudulent credentials to counsel children?

Her personal beliefs are not being tested by the school curriculum.

What exactly do you know about that particular course of study?

Originally posted by itguysrule
reply to post by FuzzyDunlop

 

And exactly how does your personal attack on a fellow ATS member enrich this discussion -

Probably much the same way calling for homosexual to be pushed off of the highest cliff does?

where are the mods?

There were a couple here just a minute ago.

reply to post by Nutter


Here you have a Augusta State saying it does not discriminate

In a statement to CNN, Augusta State said it "does not discriminate against any individuals on the basis of their personal, social, political, or religious beliefs or views. No student is asked to change their religious beliefs or views in order to participate in any program." Without commenting specifically on the Keeton suit, the university also said, "The professional counselor's job is to help clients clarify their current feelings and behaviors and to help them reach the goals that they have determined for themselves, not to dictate what those goals should be, what morals they should possess, or what values they should adopt."

www.cnn.com...

French said the remediation program itself seeks to change Keeton's beliefs. He said while the ACA code prohibits imposing values, "these counseling professors have won the gold medal in the Olympics of imposing values by trying to change her religious beliefs."

The ACA Code PROHIBITS imposing MORALS OR VALUES

So a councilor professor can impose morals and values on a student but as a counselor you cant impose values and morals

OH I SEE

do as WE say not as we do

Just like a typical politicians .

LadySkadi, I added more to my post you didn't see.

Originally posted by c g henderson

Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
The girl does not have a faulty understanding of the field she is studying, she simply disagrees with it.

I am afraid you are not correct. Developmental psychology would not agree with you on that. Unfortunately in her coursework, she is going to run into the fact that sexual identity issues arise long before many kids are even aware there is any choice. The fact that she is failing her coursework due to this belief goes a long way to prove she lacks a fundamental understanding of sexuality and developing minds.

As long as the girl puts the expected answer down on the test paper to show she knows the material, that is all that should matter.

Unfortunately the "correct answer" is going to many times require an understanding that sexual proclivities precede choice. So in the name of her strong Christian faith, you suggest she lie in order to obtain what would then be fraudulent credentials to counsel children?

Her personal beliefs are not being tested by the school curriculum.

What exactly do you know about that particular course of study?

The article even said she is not failing her coursework.. she had the right answers on paper, and I believe she does understand them.

This is a science, and like most science is based on theory. You say, " fundamental understanding of sexuality and developing minds."

I believe she knows what the course teaches about it though does not personally agree with it.

I did not suggest she lie about anything. I said perhaps she should have kept her mouth shut about her religious views.

What do I know bout that particular course of study? Nothing. But I do know how many professional councilors feel the need to impress on people their views they feel is right for them that may not always be correct. Comes with being a shrink. Many have blinders on and that is what is happening here to this girl. She has not even being given a chance to prove how effective she could be or if her views will necessarily cause her to break ethical codes of conduct. If you saying this curriculum teaches she must personally believe a certain way to be effective at her job then that is dead wrong and analogous to Nazi brainwashing.

reply to post by Lostinthedarkness

The ACA Code PROHIBITS imposing MORALS OR VALUES

So a councilor professor can impose morals and values on a student but as a counselor you cant impose values and morals

OH I SEE

do as WE say not as we do

Just like a typical politicians .

Seriously, what are you trying to spin, here?

From your CNN source:

CNN obtained a copy of the remediation plan from the Alliance Defense Fund, which represents Keeton in the action. The plan addresses issues such as writing ability and organizational skills, as well as Keeton's ability to be a "multiculturally competent counselor, particularly in regard to working with gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender and queer/questioning populations."

Among the plan's requirements, Keeton was to attend at least three diversity workshops, get more exposure to gay populations (one suggestion was to attend a gay pride parade in Augusta, where the university is located), do outside reading about gays and write reflections on these experiences and how they might benefit future clients.

Where is the school trying to impose a change in fundamental belief? They are not.
That is the student's interpretation. Again, mixing up the very real issues of personal v professional conduct.


[edit on 28-7-2010 by LadySkadi]

reply to post by LadySkadi



I am not spinning any thing

School says change your beliefs and moral values . Or your out

She wants to counsel but still believe in her faith WHAT THE HECK IS wrong with that !

reply to post by whaaa

Explantion: Hmmm?

After all....."What would Jesus do"?

Personal Disclosure: IMO He'd have more faith in people and be more forgiving!

Here is why...

The Whole of Chapter 18 in the book of Matthew! [blueletterbible.org]

Specifically...

Mat 18:21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
Mat 18:22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

Originally posted by Lostinthedarkness
reply to post by LadySkadi

 

I am not spinning any thing

School says change your beliefs and moral values . Or your out

She wants to counsel but still believe in her faith WHAT THE HECK IS wrong with that !

It seems that you are.
No it is not, at least so far as the information we've been given to date.
Nothing, as long as her faith does NOT interfere with her duties to her client.

[edit on 29-7-2010 by LadySkadi]

reply to post by LadySkadi


If you listen to the videos in either the CNN or on of one of the other ones She refereed to in the remediation that writing reports on how her experience has changed her views or beliefs .

I agree with you If she carries it to the clients she should be removed .

reply to post by Lostinthedarkness


Gotcha. To address your point, this is what CNN wrote was part of the remediation agreement... last line... which I quoted in a post already, but is also in the CNN linked article.

...and write reflections on these experiences and how they might benefit future clients.

So again, the student's interpretation of what the department required of her, seems to be skewed.




[edit on 29-7-2010 by LadySkadi]