It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality

page: 2
<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in


posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 11:20 AM
Court: University Can Expel Student Who Opposes Homosexuality
Based off of the prior court case, she is not going to win, as the attornies for the University will use that as precidence for the reason of such, arguing that the Michigan statute has set the precidence for such, and that the girl could have been expelled from the school, but was given an opportunity to change her views to match the circulum on such. The court if they follow the way that most do, will look, see if there is a similarity to the 2 cases and if there is, then will rule against student, using the Michigan case as a reason for the ruling.

posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 12:40 PM
reply to post by semperfortis

"Mrs. Keeton, I am having a hard time dealing with school and my parents getting separated."

"OK, come see me 4th period on Wednesday to talk about that."

"Mrs. Keeton, I am really not sure what I want to go to college for and I feel like I am under a lot of pressure."

"Sure, see me 5th period Wednesday and we can talk about that."

"Mrs. Keeton, I am having so many confusing feelings. I am not sure if I am gay and it scares me so much I have even thought about killing myself."

"Well, according to my master's degree, you are a sinner."

I am sure that is all going to work out real well.

posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 06:02 PM
reply to post by c g henderson

So you can see into the future and predict exactly how she will handle any situation?

That is a completely ridiculous assumption based on ......Nothing

For all that you know, she may be a perfect counselor and never allow her personal feelings to enter into her work..

posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 06:24 PM
I agree with the college/university in this matter, she is not suited as a counselor for the public, with this kind of bias. She can keep her opinions but she must be broad minded and not harm others with her opinions, in other words this isn't going to help anyone. We've moved beyond that thankfully, legally and scholastically. Now the Church's need to catch up.

posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 06:29 PM
All students have personal beliefs and should not be asked to change them, instead they should be taught to not let them interfere with counseling others. It does appear that ASU is asking her to change her beliefs. This is from the local news on the story:

Keeton claims that she has voiced her Christian beliefs inside and outside the classroom on homosexuality and other biblical teachings. ASU faculty has ordered her to undergo a remediation plan, which would include diversity sensitivity workshops, she says.

Professors also suggested that she attend Augusta's Gay Pride Parade last month, Keeton told her attorneys. As a part of the plan, she would report back once a month to faculty to determine whether the activities have an impact on her convictions.

Keeton, who is from the Atlanta area, plans to become a school counselor, and says she refuses to change her religious beliefs. She enrolled in the program last fall, but was not asked to begin the remediation plan until this summer.

I wonder if students who have the belief that God is not real are asked to go to diversity sensitivity workshops, attend church and report back once a month to determine whether these activities have had an impact on their convictions. Hmmm... I think not.

posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 06:39 PM
reply to post by Iamonlyhuman

That's not what this is about. If she's studying to be a counsellor she'll be working with vulnerable people. Holding an unshakable religious belief that homosexuality is a sin will clearly put her in a position where she might do further harm by letting those views get in the way when she should be helpful and supportive, irrespective of what their sexuality is. It's not like she's studying to be a geologist or anything.

posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 06:53 PM

Originally posted by semperfortis

For all that you know, she may be a perfect counselor and never allow her personal feelings to enter into her work..

I suppose it's possible but every Christian I've known, and I've known a bunch; their life both professional and emotional is dictated to by the tenets of Christianity. If it didn't, they wouldn't be a very good Christian would they?

After all....."What would Jesus do"?

[edit on 28-7-2010 by whaaa]

posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 07:17 PM
uggg. Am I the only one that's getting a little bit sick of hearing homophobes - sorry, patriotic american christians who care about family values - on the right yelling 'You can't call us bigots because of our views on homosexuality! it's our right!'
To me it seems a little bit like 'Hey, you can't call me a racist just because i don't like black people and don't think they should have equal rights. Those are my beliefs and you can't judge me for them.'

i should point out that i have no issue whatsoever with anyones race and was merely illustrating a point.

i should also point out that the above pointing out was done for the benefit of the overwhelming minority of people on ATS who would have misinterpreted.

But, hey let's put people into professions where they can do as much damage as possible.

How dare I get thrown out of flying school for my belief that matter isn't actually tangible and that I should be able to shave a half hour of this flight time by flying directly through those mountains, which are only projections in our mind of what we perceive mountains to be.

posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 07:32 PM
The primary purpose of higher education has been, for years, to destroy all elements of religion in their students.

It is their primary goal to turn out a new class of atheists every year. Most schools use subtle methods to destroy their student's beliefs in a higher power. Strong is the student who emerges with a college degree AND their faith intact.

This school is just more out in the open about its agenda than others.

Edit to add:

There's another school pulling the same stunt:

Another Counseling Student Harrassed for Christian Beliefs Appeals Court Ruling

ADF to appeal ruling that allows Eastern Michigan U. to expel students for not affirming homosexuality

Attorneys will appeal a federal court decision issued Monday in a lawsuit filed on behalf of student Julea Ward against Eastern Michigan University (EMU) after it kicked out the Christian student for holding to her beliefs on homosexual conduct.

EMU dismissed Ward from its graduate counseling program in March 2009 for not affirming homosexual behavior as morally acceptable. Ward would not agree to change her religious beliefs about homosexual behavior or express a message contrary to them during counseling sessions as a condition to receiving a degree.

“Christian students shouldn’t be expelled for holding to and abiding by their beliefs,” said Alliance Defense Fund (ADF) Senior Counsel David French, who argued before the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan last month. “To reach its decision, the court had to do something that’s never been done in federal court: uphold an extremely broad and vague university speech code.”

EMU initiated its disciplinary process against Ward shortly after she enrolled in a counseling practicum course in January 2009, when she was assigned a potential client seeking assistance regarding a homosexual relationship. Recognizing the potential conscience issue with the client, and knowing she could not affirm the client’s homosexual relationship without violating her religious beliefs, Ward asked her supervisor how to handle the matter.

Ward was advised to reassign the potential client to a different counselor. EMU then informed Ward that she could only stay in the counseling program if she agreed to undergo a “remediation” program. Its purpose was to help her “see the error of her ways” and change her “belief system” as it relates to counseling about homosexual relationships.

Life Site News

They must be feeling emboldened with Obama in office and the Godless Dems running the chicken coop.

[edit on 7/28/10 by FortAnthem]

posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 08:01 PM

off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 08:06 PM
reply to post by FortAnthem

Godless Dems, eh? How would you explain the Liberals I personally know who are faithful, church-going Christians, have throughout their lives given time to Church run non-profits (humanitarian work in Africa and S. America), try to live their lives according to the example set by Christ (you know, feed and clothe the poor, do unto others), and are personally saddened with the lack of human compassion expressed by many on the religious right?. Are they the only exceptions? or does their Liberalism mean that they're not 'true Christians'?

Your faith is just that, it has never, and can never be proven as fact. Nor can any other religion, or athiesm for that matter. You have to live in a world where not everyone is going to believe in the storybook you do, and some won't believe in any of them. To view yourself as superior (which the term Godless Dems clearly implies you do, and I may mention, that's not very Christian of you, unless I'm wrong aren't Pride and Vanity sins?) based on something that is completely unproven, and inherently unprovable, is quite the folly.

posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 08:12 PM
reply to post by drmeola

Learn to speak correctly. Your spelling and grammar are horrible.
Also, try and learn to be less of an ignorant, bigoted, trolling douchebag.

Finally: Thou doth protest too much, methinks.

posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 08:27 PM
What you have here in my honest opinion is the School is forcing its belief system upon Ms. Keeton .

The key is would she take her views and force them on her clients. That is the question not what her beliefs are !

There is a difference between what your religious beliefs are and what your actions are.

Personally I believe the gay life style is wrong. But I will fight any one tooth and nail for them to have equal rights under our set of laws . Which they are not entitled to yet .

I know a Psychiatrists who is a good christian man but when he is in his office he leaves it behind and does the job he needs to .

There are Cops who disagree with the drug laws and will toss a user or dealer in jail in a heart beat the same with some judges.


If I want to believe in a man in the sky that's my constitutional RIGHT same if you want to believe in the almighty dollar or a test tube in a chemists hand that is YOUR CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT !!!


And that's exactly what this school is doing forcing it down her throat !

edited for bad sentence structure and errors

[edit on 28-7-2010 by Lostinthedarkness]

posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 08:31 PM
If you are a counselor - - you counsel EVERYONE

If your beliefs get in the way - - you find a program agreeing with your beliefs.

Pretty simple.

posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 08:35 PM
reply to post by FuzzyDunlop

And exactly how does your personal attack on a fellow ATS member enrich this discussion - where are the mods?

posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 08:39 PM
I may not agree with what she says.

However I will defend to death her right to say it. This is just wrong though.

I mean it's one thing to tell the students they should be more open minded when it comes to such things however it's disgusting to make them take remedial courses to "fix" themselves.

The PC crowd continues to amaze me mroe and more.


posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 08:40 PM
reply to post by Lostinthedarkness

There's a lot of truth in what you say, there are a lot of Christians/Muslims/Jews/whatever who are able to separate their faiths from their professional lives where it is not appropriate for one to influence the other. They should not be penalized for their faith.
But I also don't see the school wanting/ordering/what-have-you this woman to attend a Gay Pride Parade as trying to force her to change her beliefs. If one faaaaabulous parade is all it takes... then her convictions weren't very strong in the first place.
If she wishes to be a school councillor, unless she's at a strict conservative christian school, she will likely have interactions with gay, lesbian and transgendered students. As a councillor, she would be in no place to *council* these kids without an understanding of homosexuals AS THEY PERCEIVE THEMSELVES. It doesn't matter if SHE thinks it's a choice, if a homosexual or bisexual student doesn't view it as a choice she MUST be able to offer advice based on that, not on her perceptions on the causes of or reasons for homosexuality.
I agree that what is important here is whether or not she can separate her faith from work as a councillor, but I'm not convinced the school is doing anything other than trying to make sure she gets a complete view of the issue to prepare her for working with kids who are gay.

posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 08:44 PM
reply to post by itguysrule

under normal circumstances I would agree. However the poster in questions specifically said that homosexuals should be killed, etc. My post was a gut response, and perhaps 'douchebag' was an inappropriate word choice. the rest of my post, however was not. Someone who calls for the death of another group based on sexual orientation, gender, or race IS an ignorant bigot.

posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 08:44 PM

Originally posted by semperfortis
and never allow her personal feelings to enter into her work..

Obviously she already has or she wouldn't be in the process of flunking out. Do you have any evidence that she has left her feelings at the door? Obviously not if she is being repremanded for it.

posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 08:46 PM

Originally posted by Iamonlyhuman
I wonder if students who have the belief that God is not real are asked to go to diversity sensitivity workshops, attend church and report back once a month to determine whether these activities have had an impact on their convictions. Hmmm... I think not.

Maybe if they wanted to study theology.

top topics

<< 1    3  4  5 >>

log in