ATS News: Border Security, Part Two: The Arizona War Zone

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posted on Jul, 27 2010 @ 10:01 PM
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This whole thing is about the U.S. drug people taking over the middlemen, and taking over turf and entrance corridors from the lower ranking cartels.

These Mexicans are not just doing this themselves they are being directed and supplied. While there own families are being held and murdered at the same time, from higher ups in Mexico.

I keeping thinking about Zbigniew Brzezinski and his tactic of divide and Conquer tactic, they are trying to start a civil war here and once it happens it will be everywhere the Mexicans are, then once everything gets going the military will come in and mop things up. It's going to be their plan as they begin world war 3 which will start with North Korea, Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Venezuela, etc...
They need something to tie us down while they begin this whole mess, which will likely happen before the elections.
The only advice I can give people in the southern states, like the one I am in here in California is form groups of five, men you can trust, arm yourselves and look after your own.

Link : en.wikipedia.org...

[edit on 27-7-2010 by ShadowRamesses]

[edit on 27-7-2010 by ShadowRamesses]




posted on Jul, 27 2010 @ 10:51 PM
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Originally posted by albertfothergill
I reallly dont get this! Is it to stop drug traffikers or people who need help.

Opening the borders has implications of course........what is the government thinking, please explain, i'm irish?????????


I would say it is to stop drug traffickers AND stop people who need help that break the law to get it. So these people need help.. so what.. they needed help long before they made the choice to break the law and illegally cross the border.

Do I feel sympathy for these law breakers who need help? Hell no. Let them apply for help within legal channels and then we can talk. You don't turn to crime and break the law just because you need help.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Does anyone have a good graphic of this so called international border that would be more accurate then the border we see on a U.S. map?

I would really like to get a better idea of the type of border this man is talking about.

Anyone ???

[edit on 27-7-2010 by JohnPhoenix]



posted on Jul, 27 2010 @ 11:23 PM
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reply to post by muiredised
 


That makes perfect sense. And logistically Maricopa has more residents. I just believe they should redirect their anger to who is appropriating the money, not the county benefiting most.

Because really Maricopa residents don't see the benefit.



posted on Jul, 27 2010 @ 11:49 PM
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Originally posted by mryanbrown
"The great state of Maricopa"
Old people when they give speeches :/

Currently living in Phoenix, I've heard several politicians in Arizona, from outside Maricopa, use that exact phrase... almost always never in a friendly way.

Snarky ATS members and their conclusion jumping :/

edit on by SkepticOverlord because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 12:23 AM
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reply to post by ChrisCrikey
 



The problem there is economic. Would you spend millions putting up towers and maintaining them for a call or less a day? It's just not affordable. Your other option might be a satellite phone but the costs would be pretty high compared to cell phone coverage. Take a look at the map. Those uncovered areas are pretty remote.

www.wireless.att.com...#?type=voice




[edit on 28-7-2010 by ntech]



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 03:12 AM
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reply to post by Shadowfoot
 





This is preposterous and somebody needs to get the (explative) out of these foreign incursions and right things at home. What has happened to our government? I mean this isnt any one administration, this stuff has been going on for 30 years!


Completely agree but you and I and the rest of ATS must understand the realities, what is really going on here!

I am absolutely against the US loosing its battle of borders, language and culture! But here is the bottom line as understood by TPTB at the Federal level.

If the US is to maintain its demography, ie. maintain a positive birth rate and even a slightly growing population then it must maintain an open border with Mexico!

New young, reproducing Mexicans must constantly come in to replace the diminishing birth rate of average Americans.

Why? Because someone needs to pay for our Social Security, someone needs to be available for military service, for jobs to maintain infrastructure, industry, harvest crops, do social work, etc.

Our countries greatest strength is the strength of its people and it must be at least maintaining its demography or we will go the way of Europe and Russia which are in their decline.

Again, we are in a catch 22 situation. We loose something either way!



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 03:38 AM
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The time has come for Americans everywhere to stand with our brothers and sisters in Arizona. This is not a race debate as many would like to make it out to be ,this is about the invasion of the United States of America .We have taken the worlds poor and homeless for far to long and the time to close our borders has come .I say to my brothers and sisters in Arizona ,know you are not alone please know many Americans stand with you .If I may make one more comment that i think is just as important now as in the Revolutionary war...

JOIN OR DIE



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 05:07 AM
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reply to post by plumranch
 



If the US is to maintain its demography, ie. maintain a positive birth rate and even a slightly growing population then it must maintain an open border with Mexico!

There may be a grain of truth to what you say, but why would they not just ammend the immigration policies to make it easier for people to come in legally? Why set up an illegal situation? Makes no sense.

To my distant and foreign (to you) ears, it sounds like the border has been abandoned, as have the Americans who live there. It is unbelievable that the US can stick its military anywhere it wants across the globe, but will not police its own border with Mexico.

There is an agenda there, but I am not sure you have quite hit on it.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 05:50 AM
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Originally posted by SkepticOverlord

Originally posted by mryanbrown
"The great state of Maricopa"
Old people when they give speeches :/

Currently living in Phoenix, I've heard several politicians in Arizona, from outside Maricopa, use that exact phrase... almost always never in a friendly way.

Snarky ATS members and their conclusion jumping :/

edit on by SkepticOverlord because: (no reason given)



I'm still blaming it on age, I'm allowed to discriminate against the elderly.


(It reminded me of my great grandma. From Oklahoma, settled in AZ after the dust bowl and built their own house. Worked the farms. More specifically, it reminded me of her "white" biased conservative republican "I'M RIGHT" attitude and logic. It sounds like something someone close to/past retirement age coined.)

It's one of those great coincidences in life. Where you can suddenly empathize with "the other side's" pov. Because his story and mentality reminds me of that "old timer" logic. The same logic I grew up with and seen in my own family.

So I found myself asking after it, how would I try to relate my pov to someone like that? To my stubborn grandma?

I think overall in issues like this, people don't take into account the circumstances of life that bring someone to a particular way of thinking. So to reiterate, I stand by the assumption I made.

And hey, we all need a little snark now and then to laugh at. Otherwise we would take everything seriously.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 06:12 AM
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Thrasher put out a lot of interesting information that I didn't know, but I don't agree with him on his ideas. I think by simply eliminating government welfare programs for undocumented immigrants and also the draw war, the immigration problem will disappear, and if it does not disappear completely we can rest assured the border will at least no longer be a violent place as if you eliminate the drug war there won't be much to shoot people over.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 06:39 AM
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It just amaze me how you guys have to cope with something like this and how Washington seems powerless. Even in Canada this event would be "killed inside the egg" NOW without fuss & fued. forget diplomacy.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 06:50 AM
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Arizona should secede and other border states should follow. Worse than getting no help from the obummer group of thugs - they are being hindered by a frivolous grandstanding lawsuit. Apparently their priority is to ensure that we legitimate citizens are in constant danger.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 07:15 AM
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. He also mentioned a 60 foot easement next to the border.

The Mexico border is about 10 million feet long. This make the size of the 60 foot easement 600 million square feet, or 21 square miles.

If they try to patrol the 60 mile wide area instead of the 60 foot wide area, the area increases from 21 square miles, to about 114,000 square miles!!!!!

No wonder it makes more sense to patrol the actual border, the size is a lot more manageable to patrol!



President Theodore Roosevelt’s 60-foot-wide easement running the length of the U.S.-Mexico border from California to Texas.
The “Roosevelt Reservation” was created “for the purpose of homeland security,” Hopkins said.

i think that this 60' 'easement' status should be researched more...

if the easement exists, then the lack of exercising upkeep, or prevention of intrusion or even the 'adverse possession' aspects arising because of federal neglect...could mean that the authority of the easement can be passed along to another body who will do the things necessary to protect and maintain that easement right.

[perhaps by allowing border states 'militia' to patrol the easement 24/7/365]



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 07:18 AM
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reply to post by Asktheanimals
 



This is an INVASION and it must be stopped. The trouble will not end quietly and it will get nasty before it is resolved. It will take much more than legislation or tough talk to close the border and restore order to a part of America that our government apparently does not believe is worth protecting.


First of all, great film, and kudos to the ones actually guarding the border. It is an invasion, people, by people who have unlimited money and weapons, and the blessings of those down further south who are angry at America for one reason or other. These people intend to make war on us to force the issue, and it really looks like the Obama White house is blind to this. I guess when a Mexican flag is flying over the White House perhaps someone there will pay attention.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 08:40 AM
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I am serious.

Could someone out there, a graphic artist perhaps who is in the know design a good map of the border area detailing the borders and the popular unblocked corridors that the illegals use to cross over?

I think it would be a great addition to this thread and also serve to educate the people.



Originally posted by plumranch

If the US is to maintain its demography, ie. maintain a positive birth rate and even a slightly growing population then it must maintain an open border with Mexico!

New young, reproducing Mexicans must constantly come in to replace the diminishing birth rate of average Americans.

Why? Because someone needs to pay for our Social Security, someone needs to be available for military service, for jobs to maintain infrastructure, industry, harvest crops, do social work, etc.

Our countries greatest strength is the strength of its people and it must be at least maintaining its demography or we will go the way of Europe and Russia which are in their decline.


I strongly disagree. With over 300 million Americans in this country I do not see our birth rate diminishing to the point where we need illegal foreign woman to make babies for us.

The illegals do not pay into Social Security. Illegals do not serve in our military. Illegals do not contribute to our economy. They do not pay taxes. They make cash and send it back home to Mexico.

Mexicans can only do those things by Not crossing the border illegally and come into the country through the proper legal channels and becoming American citizens.

Our countries greatest strength lies in our sovereignty and remaining whole not being divided by a nation over run by illegals who do not deserve to be here.

The problem is at least 4 fold.

1) illegals who want to work crossing the border for a better life. 2) drug cartels and their wars to make money off the addiction and death of our citizens, and 3) Protecting our own citizens who live in the border areas that are threatened by these cartels and 4) other criminals like the "special people" Other than Mexicans who the cartels help slip in. This is national security issue because of terrorists.

Not any one solution will solve these problems but open borders for illegals will surly make them worse.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 11:56 AM
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One more thought. I have heard this point of view from several people over the years and it makes me think is this whole thing really worth all the murders and violence, and it goes like this: Take the profit out of dealing drugs.
Now lets just weigh the pros and cons of this proposal.

Pros: Murders and killings would stop. Banks wouldn't be able to fund their agendas, etc.. add more if you want suggest other pros.

Cons : Everyone would be a dope addict? Maybe maybe not. Add more as stated above.

I was told if someone chooses to be a drunk to the degree they are living in the gutter, just let them do what they want, if that's the way they want to be there is no stopping it.

Lets look at the state I live in : California, they made Pot legal basically, what effects has this had? Maybe this could be the problem? Everyone is just getting stoned and not buying the high priced Cocaine and Heroin, and this is putting these Mexicans out of business? You can even grow your own Pot legally.

I could go on but I will ask this last questions :

Should we legalize drugs to stop the killing and take the profit out of selling them?

If we did make the drugs legal what effects do you think it would have, being that they are already here and available?

[edit on 28-7-2010 by ShadowRamesses]



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 01:14 PM
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56,000 agents, plus 20,000 at points of entry = 76,000 agents.
divide 76,000 by 2000 miles of border and that is 38 agents per mile.
divide 38 agents by three (8 hour shifts) and this means 12.66 agents per mile or one agent every 406 feet.

give each agent a rifle and they only have to cover 203 feet radius, which is less than 100 yards.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 01:40 PM
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When I think about this issue, I believe that it is a constitutional, cultural, and civilization crises. It is a clash of many civilizations against another civilization's laws and culture. Civilizations include Mexico, Africa, Cuba, Iran, Iraq, and many-many other countries. What they are doing is winning a public relations war, so that another country's laws are altered to accommodate them...and, that leads up to the Constitutional crises.

"Judge blocks controversial parts of Ariz. law"
www.msnbc.msn.com...

United States without borders is not a country. It is a slab of land. If we win back our country in November, we can start Obama's impeachment immediately. Why? By turning over portions of this law, he is violating the oath of office he took on day one. "...to uphold and defend the constitution."

[edit on 28-7-2010 by Section31]



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 09:00 PM
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Why doesn't this thread have 200 flags and tons of post by now like most all other ATS News threads?

Something seems not right here.



Originally posted by ShadowRamesses
One more thought. I have heard this point of view from several people ~~ and it goes like this: Take the profit out of dealing drugs.
Now lets just weigh the pros and cons of this proposal.

Pros: Murders and killings would stop. Banks wouldn't be able to fund their agendas, etc.. add more if you want suggest other pros.

Cons : Everyone would be a dope addict? Maybe maybe not. Add more as stated above.

Should we legalize drugs to stop the killing and take the profit out of selling them?


Here's a point all the people who want to legalize drugs won't touch.

The drug cartels are out to make money on selling drugs to Americans. They use pushers to help get kids hooked on drugs to do it.

If you legalize drugs Who will regulate this? The Government? Where will they get the drugs? These drug cartels will sell it to them?

No, you cannot have that, these people are mafia like thugs and murderers. There are also laws against our government getting into business deals with people like this. So, the drug cartels would be out of a PROFIT.

They won't like that and they will then instead of going away try to undercut the government regulated drug business and sell their drugs cheaper.

This can lead to cutting the drugs with other substances that are cheap and harmful themselves. "Cut" is already done for coc aine and there are many different types, most are chemical compounds that are dangerous in themselves.

So now you have a New Drug War between the drug cartels and the government.

Now you have even more risk that your son or daughter will overdose on bad drugs. You will have more drug violence with guns than ever before because our government would be cutting into the drug cartels multi-billion dollar a year business. The drug cartels will not take this lying down.. they will want their profit back.

Legalizing drugs is the most wrong and worst thing that can be done.

People say stupid things like " Well if there was not such a demand ( our addicted citizens) then the drug cartels would not be here selling drugs"

You people are really delusional to the Max.

The drug cartels create the costumer to sell their drugs to. It's all designed by them for them. No one just wakes up one day and decides they are going to do coc aine or heroin. There is a drug dealer somewhere close down the line encouraging people to buy the drugs and these people turn their friends on because it "feels good".

I am an ex drug user over 20 years and I Know exactly how it works.. you cannot BS Me.



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 07:36 AM
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Originally posted by JohnPhoenix
Legalizing drugs is the most wrong and worst thing that can be done.

People say stupid things like " Well if there was not such a demand ( our addicted citizens) then the drug cartels would not be here selling drugs"

You people are really delusional to the Max.


lol.



I am an ex drug user over 20 years and I Know exactly how it works.. you cannot BS Me.


Sounds like you bs'ed yourself. Pretty sure most people who want "drugs legalized" know addicts can get drugs regardless. So eliminate the middle man hence the violent pusher. Then you could produce it yourself.

And if you think you can honestly include cannabis in with that broad generalization, lol. Or any other naturally grown "drug".

Pharmaceuticals are more dangerous.

[edit on 29-7-2010 by mryanbrown]





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