Israel destroys a whole Negev (Al-Naqab) Village – 200 Children left Homeless as crowd of Jews Che

post by SevenThunders
As for the various propaganda pieces about Israel destroying an Arab village or whatever made up reason people hate Israel for. I don't buy it. 90% of this stuff is made up for propaganda purposes and given peoples propensity to hate Jews and hate Israel they'll believe anything.

This is how SevenThunders views this incident, which he placed on another thread. He hasn't answered the questions I asked him on this thread.

The story has been reported by joint Israeli Jewish/Arab rights group and at least 2 Jewish-Israeli reporters independent of each other. There was an official Israel government explanation of the incident also, which I didn't bother to quote. It was referred to in at least one of the articles.

Quite frankly, I can't afford to engage in Judenhass. Many of the reporters and activists I admire and trust the most happen to be Jewish.

I find nothing for myself in Judaism as a religion. As for Zionism, I find it to be rather destructive. There did exist, and some still hold to a Zionism which was not destructive. But I'm afraid that these days that is being called anti-Zionism. Names and labels do change through popular usage. And some usage changes do seem to be agenda driven.

[edit on 3-8-2010 by pthena]

reply to post by pthena


Your source is an intifada website. These are the same people who hid behind their own children during an Israeli strike to create human casualties suitable for propaganda purposes. I take no credence in their point of view.

As I recall Jewish forces also unfairly forced out the Jewish settlers from Gaza and then failed to give them their promised new housing. The Jewish state has several flaws, which I'm well aware of, not the least of which is that it's essentially run by a corrupt judiciary.

Nevertheless it is by orders of magnitude the most fair minded, just, and freedom loving nation in the entire middle east. The corrupt Islamic republics that surround them are cesspools and fountains of hatred. Why don't they give up some of their abundant land to the so called Palestinians? They have hundreds of times more territory that is totally undeveloped in fact.

Let me answer my own question. They do not because they use the Pal.s for propaganda reasons. They rejoice when Pal.s die or suffer. They wish to use them as a guerrilla force to help kill every Jew on the planet if they possibly could. Their religion commands such behavior.

The best thing the Jews could do is deport every one of them to Jordan, Lebanon and Egypt, the countries they came from. (Yes most of them came from outside Israel proper contrary to modern propaganda.) It is impossible to create a society when determined separatists are hell bent on your destruction. This is a fact that liberals in America will soon see come to haunt them. But that's another story.

reply to post by SevenThunders

Your source is an intifada website.

Evidently, you didn't read all the other sources I linked to.

As I recall Jewish forces also unfairly forced out the Jewish settlers from Gaza and then failed to give them their promised new housing. The Jewish state has several flaws, which I'm well aware of, not the least of which is that it's essentially run by a corrupt judiciary.

I was unaware that the settlers were not compensated. It does indeed sound very unfair for the government to encourage illegal settlement, then make the settlers absorb the trauma themselves. I'm truly sorry about that.

I suppose it's a matter of opinion about whether the Knesset or Court is more corrupt. I've heard of a couple of court decisions that seemed good to me that were then ignored by the government.

The best thing the Jews could do is deport every one of them to Jordan, Lebanon and Egypt, the countries they came from. (Yes most of them came from outside Israel proper contrary to modern propaganda.)

I would think that you are partaking of the modern propaganda. You really believe Palestine was an empty land before 1915? Why would the Balfour Document mention indigenous people? Why would the British Mandate mention them? Why the 1947 UN Partition plan?

I think a better solution would be for as many of the Jews as would not be overly burdened to move to the US. At least if they are determined to set U.S. foreign policy, let them do it as U.S. citizens.

reply to post by SevenThunders
Earlier you brought up the concept of something associated with Muslims being an outrage against Christ, well what if Zionist Jews in Israel thought Christians were hell-bent on destroying Judaism by possibly converting them to Christianity?
What if the whole Israel-in-Palestine thing was a plot by the Vatican to eliminate Christians from the area, because they were Eastern Orthodox, so that eventually the Catholic Church could move in unopposed to take over all Christian holy places including the Temple Mount?

Here's another source.

Just wait until HEB2 is up and you'll start to get a better picture of what's happening.

A few pictures of other Israeli forced relocations/attacks.

reply to post by Baldur
Thank you very much, Baldur. I think now that the Guardian is looking into it, there may be more attention. And if any one has the records of census and population locations it would be the British.

From the article, it becomes clear that the herding of people in to small urban areas is similar to pacification tactics used by the U.S. in Viet Nam. That's a war tactic, I'm afraid. It seems the U.S. and Israel may share each others military manuals.

And I only used the Intifada piece because it was the only English translation I could find for the story which was originally written in Hebrew for Haaretz.

Wow, that Hebtv looks like it will be good. Right out of Hebron.
in collaboration with B’Tselem


[edit on 3-8-2010 by pthena]

Removed for
Off topic.
but somewhere, sometime . . .


[edit on 3-8-2010 by pthena]

Update:

Homeless Bedouins Take On Israeli Forces by Mel Frykberg -- Antiwar.com
According to a media statement released by Human Rights Watch (HRW), "Israel has demolished thousands of Negev Bedouin homes since the 1970s and over 200 since 2009. The Land Administration also began spraying villagers’ crops with herbicides in 2002 as a mechanism to cause evacuation, a practice deemed illegal by the Israeli Supreme Court in 2007."
. . .
Tens of thousands of Bedouin live in "unrecognized" villages in the south of Israel. Israel considers them "illegal," and has refused to connect them to basic services and infrastructure.

However, Israeli authorities granted large tracts of land and public funds for Israeli Jews to establish ranches in the area, and connected them to national electric and water grids despite the absence of proper planning permits, according to Israeli rights group Adalah. The ranches were legalized a month ago.

So the de-Arabization and Judaization continues in the Negev. Also reported in the story is the repeated destruction of Palestinian village of
Farasiya in Area C of the West Bank. Under the Oslo accords this area was supposed to be slowly transferred from Israeli control to PA, instead, the land has been expropriated for Jewish settlements.

3,000 additional demolition orders for Area C are pending.

reply to post by pthena

"One simply cannot imagine the scene when 200 armed combat police officers descend on a village in the desert at 05:00am (0200 GMT), while a construction crew systemically demolishes every structure leaving the residents literally in the open desert air with nothing.

Joseph Dana,a writer and filmmaker living in Jerusalem, told Al Jazeera the village of al-Arakib was bulldozed in the early hours of Tuesday morning - for the third time in three weeks.

and I saw in the news that the residents might get sued and charged for the cost of bulldozing there houses and leaving them homeless and in open, not to mention in the month of Ramadan where they have to fast.



GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ZIONISTS, and the ZIONIST LOBBY HERE IN ATS. You are a disgrace to humanity.

reply to post by oozyism
www.adalah.org...

(Haifa, Israel) Today 4 August 2010, Adalah sent a second urgent letter to Mr. Herzl Shapiro, the head of the Police Investigation Unit (Mahash) demanding an immediate investigation into the violent actions of the police involved in the evacuation and demolition of the Arab Bedouin unrecognized village of al-Arakib in the Naqab (Negev) for the second time in eight days.

It looks like these last two were more brutal. During the first destruction that started the thread, Jewish/Arab rights group had many volunteers there as witnesses. The less witnesses the more brutal it seems. And since it's Israeli citizens being dispossessed other countries will just consider it an internal matter, not to be interfered in.

if you are not a jew, residing in israel might be hazardous for your health.

Let me tell you what this is really about.

It's not about mean Jews persecuting poor, defenseless Muslims,

It's the conflict between nomad hunter/gatherer societies vs. implanted communities.

It's been going on for more than 10 000 years, as the first farming communities arose and claimed the land they lived and worked on as theirs, while the nomad societies had and have a different notion of territory, natural resources and who it all belongs to.

You have the same problem ALL over the world, wherever nomad ethnic groups try to co-exist - or rather survive - next to farming/cattle ranch communities, villages and cities, so don't try to make this into a 'Zionist' problem.

Take a look at Africa, Siberia, Mongolia and the rest of the Arab world, more of the same intolerance against nomadic societies.

France recently tore down several Romani (Gypsy) camps and has been doing so systematically since 2009. The Romani are then expelled from France (even though they have European Union citizenship and a legal right to stay in any E.U country):

www.montrealgazette.com...

That would have been an outcry had it happened in Israel, right?

You are perhaps aware of the fact that up until the 20th century, the ethnic conflicts in this region were radically different from today.

In 19th century Palestine, there were practically no conflicts between Muslims, Jews and Christians. On the contrary, they formed interactive communities that worked well together.
On the other hand, there was a long and bitter conflict between the Fellahim (Muslim farmers) and Bedouins, which were often involved in tribal war activities. Killings, raids and theft of domestic animals, burning of houses and crops, etc was so common place in certain parts of Palestine, that Ottoman officials pondered if it simply wouldn't be better to create a secession plan and force the Bedouins into camps. Although, their demographic strength at the time made that solution impossible.

Since the creation of the State of Israel, the Bedouin community (in Israel) has the highest fertility rate among ALL the ethnic groups in the Middle East, and the Israeli Bedouins have the lowest illiteracy rate among all the Bedouins in the Middle East, partially because many of them have settled in villages and communities.

They're still despised by the rest of the Palestinian society, and often end up working for Israeli companies and plantations.
Whenever I've been involved with projects in Israel, we've always employed Bedouins rather than 'Palestinians'. They're hard working, great people, and they have a different perspective on the whole Middle East issue. Wise from their own history, they know that the 'Fellahim' is just as much an oppressor as any other oppressor.

I count some of them among my best friends, and I would trust my life with a few.

I agree that the situation is problematic, I just think it's disgusting that you've chosen to use it to prop your political agenda.

So there you go Mr. self-appointed shaman, you have a long way to wander before you're worthy of the ONE.

[edit on 11-8-2010 by Heliocentric]

reply to post by Heliocentric
Pimp is not the right word because it implies that he receives some gain. Being ant-zionist is not gainful employment where in contrast, being pro-zionist can be very profitable.
By the way, your self-appointed shamin is nothing like that, note the claim to "self exile", meaning that wherever he goes people want to proclaim him leader, or something, which he wants none of. Sorry for speaking for someone else but he is a little too humble to say a lot in self defense.
Anyway, to get to what I came here for today, yesterday I was listening to Michael Rivero's radio show, "What Really Happened" and a caller was saying he was able to look through some papers by Ben Gurion and he was describing as a plan for Israel just what we see going on today which is ethnic cleansing and genocide. The caller was making the point that he had to conclude that this was the object all along, since Israel's inception.
The archives are available on Genesis in case anyone wants to hear the call.

reply to post by Heliocentric
I am aware of the divide between farmer/hunter gatherer. That is the issue in Sudan. I am aware of the Romani issue in Europe. I only heard one story on the radio about France's actions. If I understand it correctly, the largest concentration is in Albania, where they have what could be called 2nd or 3rd class citizenship, especially regarding access to education.

I defer to your personal experience in working with the Israeli Bedouin. I do not hold any false notion that Bedouin are regarded highly in any other country, such as Egypt or Saudi Arabia, or Syria, or Iraq. As far as I can tell, the Jewish Israeli activists are the best brothers they have in the middle east.

they know that the 'Fellahim' is just as much an oppressor as any other oppressor.

Which brings us to the issue of land and water rights. We live in what seems to be a shrinking world due to population pressure. Our wide ranging peoples and animals are having a very difficult time surviving. Urbanization does not seem to be a good solution.

I agree that the situation is problematic, I just think it's disgusting that you've chosen to use it to prop your political agenda.

Yes, I am disgusted myself. I've never physically worked and suffered as an activist along side Bedouin, Gypsy, Mongolian, Native American, or any of the other wide ranging peoples.

In this instance at least I am not ashamed of my political agenda. It is simply this:
Recognizing that the Land of Palestine (greater Israel if you prefer) is of limited land mass and water resource I would encourage any Jew who is able to either move to the US or stay in the US to do so. We still have a fairly large land mass to population ratio compared to just about any other country in the world.

Having a homeland for the Jews, in my thinking, does not necessitate that every living Jew in the world live in the little area, neither does it require that every other people not be there. There are religious extremists who hold great political influence who teach those things that I reject. In turn, I utterly reject those religious notions.

In my thinking, a couple of competing centers of education, probably three (since the expulsion of Jews from Iraq) along with the towns that grow up around them, with some farmlands, would be completely sufficient as a Jewish homeland. Very many people would support and morally defend such a homeland, myself included.

Thank you for challenging me to better articulate my agenda. I think I did a better job just now. Please accept the above as my revised agenda, I am sorry I didn't do a better job earlier. It would have saved much mis understanding.

So there you go Mr. self-appointed shaman, you have a long way to wander before you're worthy of the ONE.

Thank you for the reminder, I lose track of that sometimes.

[edit on 11-8-2010 by pthena]

Yet another article from another eyewitness:
The "banality of evil" and Israel’s destruction of al-Araqib (with Video)

Joseph Dana is a writer and filmmaker living in Jerusalem. He has two Master’s degrees in Jewish History, one from the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and one from the Central European University in Budapest. Dana’s work focuses on the Palestinian unarmed resistence movements throughout the West Bank and the impact of Israel’s occupation on Palestinian life. Dana is active in Israeli direct action groups such as Taayush and the Anarchists Against the Wall.
josephdana.com...