Hatred for a "left wing Congress" ends in shootout in Oakland (UPDATE)

Originally posted by nunya13
reply to post by ProjectJimmy

 

I totally understand what you are saying. Whites are racist against others for no reason other than they aren't white. The other races are racist against whites for the actions whites have taken against them. One is justified, the other is not.

It is like the new calls of sexism against feminists. Feminism is the result of millennia of oppression. The oppression had no justification other than men thought women were inferior.

It all reminds me of a White Stripes song where Jack White says "you burnt down my house then got mad at my reaction". That is exactly what is going on here.

Well I do not want to say that any form of racism itself is justified, the hating of someone purely for the color of their skin is wrong, in every form. However, there is surely a sense in which indignation and anger for the sins of the past and today can be understood and justified.

I don't believe that violence is the answer to any of the problems of racism, but when a black pastor tells his congregation something along the lines of "the white man has kept us down, so we must raise ourselves up by ourselves" that's not racism, that is reactionary to a history of racism against people of African ancestry in America. I personally feel that is quite understandable.

White Americans may cry racism at say Affirmative Action policies in college admissions, yet they are still disproportionately highly represented in college enrollment. This comes from an gap in education and economic class that is present still in America. Everyone claims to be for a level playing field for all races, yet for this to be possible everyone must be able to start from the same line, and that is not reality yet. And that will rightly and justly piss off the people whom are playing against the odds.

Just another trigger happy Liberal plant trying desperately to intentionally incite violence while pointing the fingers at a repub.
These tactics have been attempted over the last several months and have continued to fail because previous shootings have been done by angry liberals with guns, but of course the media/journolists can't necessarily point out that fact.

If he was targeting Soros it's probably because Soros is Obama's puppet master.

reply to post by ProjectJimmy


You two ought to get a room.
There are many isms in the real world, and your assumption that there are only a few acceptable isms to discuss and apply to your intellectual competitors describes you limitations rather well. You two assume your opponents automatically wrong and unworthy and strive to find reasons for this. Simply because a charactoristic is mentioned doesnt mean it is acted on or even anything more than an observation. Yeah you get to make all the judgments and thankfully only make your comfort level with yourselves even better.
You just dont 'get' objectivity I guess.

Originally posted by mordant1
reply to post by ProjectJimmy

 

You two ought to get a room.
There are many isms in the real world, and your assumption that there are only a few acceptable isms to discuss and apply to your intellectual competitors describes you limitations rather well. You two assume your opponents automatically wrong and unworthy and strive to find reasons for this. Simply because a charactoristic is mentioned doesnt mean it is acted on or even anything more than an observation. Yeah you get to make all the judgments and thankfully only make your comfort level with yourselves even better.
You just dont 'get' objectivity I guess.

Well alright, I'd ask you to explain this a bit more, how I am being exclusionary here? What did I say it was unacceptable to discuss? I believe that certain ideas are wrong, or mistaken but I am not sure what you're driving at here when you say that I assume they are unworthy.

What characteristics are you talking about that?

Also if I was worried about staying inside of my comfort level I never would have become a journalist, it's one of the most extroverted and socially challenging jobs out there.

Edit: As for objectivity, this is a forum, a place for opinions and ideas. If I were to keep my professional journalistic objectivity here I wouldn't be posting much now would I? You can bet I do not write my reports for work with "I think" and "I believe" but I am also a human and I do have opinions of my own, and I'll share them here the same as anyone else.

[edit on 28-7-2010 by ProjectJimmy]

reply to post by ProjectJimmy


Sorry, I used the wrong word. I should NOT have said justified. I meant they have a REASON. Whether the reason is justified or not is another matter. But it still doesn't make it right.

reply to post by 12GaugePermissionSlip


I had some interest until I saw you were quoting Glen Beck.

Then i realized who I was talking to and stopped reading.

If you want to be taken seriously in the grown up world....don't quote an idiot like Glenn Beck.

reply to post by nunya13

I wish I could articulate exactly what I want to say here, but it's really hard for me to even articulate it in my mind. All I know is that the people saying the people on Fox News do not advocate violence or call for things like this to happen may well be correct in that assertion but we all know that they don't have to SAY it. The rhetoric they use is extremely aggressive. They basically leave it up to the viewer to connect the dots.

You just cant be serious. Its MSNBC, CNN, NBC, ABC and CBS that spend every night fear mongering Obama critics as terrorists and racists. If anyone is instigating fear and violence, its them. Yet, you have nothing to say about it which leads any thinking person to conclude you're just spreading propaganda from left wing sites trying to silence Fox. What do you think all the black people in this country are thinking? That there is a white racist threat building, simply because the president is black! Its all a made up boogey man, meant to instigate fear and violence!

Not to mention we've seen lots of violence over the last 2 years, ALL FROM LEFT WINGERS.

[edit on 29-7-2010 by Hudson]

reply to post by ProjectJimmy

Well alright, I'd ask you to explain this a bit more, how I am being exclusionary here? What did I say it was unacceptable to discuss?

You and others here have suggested that reporting on voter intimidation and the DOJ disinterest in it, is racist or instigates violence.

Why do you believe that liberal/progressive ideas are so inherently dangerous, and what basis do you have for the distrust of the organizations you mentioned beyond what Mr. Beck has said on his show?

The basis I have for distrusting the massive power grab is history. It has been repeated many times, a government not accountable to the people always, ALWAYS, infringes on the rights of the people.

Why are my tax dollars going to programs I do not appove of? WIC I approve of, federal subsidies of abortions for any reason I do not. That is a religous belief, so why is the federal government walking all over my freedom to believe and practice how I do? I do not support the wars, yet I pay for them. I do not support most welfare programs, yet I pay for them all. SSC, Medicare, the list goes on. Does this make me a pitiless human being that doesnt care for others? NO!

This administration like the ones before it, are doing nothing to help solidify our rights. They are doing nothing to enforce our borders, nothing to check the corporations at the top that are stealing from Americans. Nothing to ensure that our elected leaders (the ones that are supposed to be above reproach) are actually not corrupt. Rangle is gonna get a slap on the wrist.

Is this a purely Obama generated crisis? No, however, much of the blame lies on him due to the trampling of the constitution that is committed day in and day out. I know politicians lie, I cannot look other way when the one document that has protected us as citizens to this point is picked apart piece by piece in front of my own eyes.

White Americans may cry racism at say Affirmative Action policies in college admissions, yet they are still disproportionately highly represented in college enrollment. This comes from an gap in education and economic class that is present still in America. Everyone claims to be for a level playing field for all races, yet for this to be possible everyone must be able to start from the same line, and that is not reality yet. And that will rightly and justly piss off the people whom are playing against the odds.

Oh my god!!!! White people go to college! Can you believe it?

Affirmative Action has done more harm to the black community than it has helped as I see it. Yes it allows for more to enter the world of higher education, however, quotas allow for the substandard and underperformers to get admitted. Why try? They are going to admit you anyway based on your skin color.

Fair means the same standards for everyone, a white and black man must have the same test scores for admission. A white and black man must get arrested and penalized the same for the same crime. White, Black, Brown, Yellow, it doesnt matter... standards, consequences of actions, and any other aspect of life must be the same.

Affirmative Action undermines this core principle of EQUAL.


As a last remark, please spare me the whole... "I have a better way to look at things because I dont just live in America" crap. Americans deal with American problems the way Americans want, at least that is the way it should be. I dont care what the Brits, Israelis, French, Iranians, Indians, Pakistanis, Chinese, Russians, or any other nation thinks we should do. Leave America to the Americans, and we will leave England to the Brits.

reply to post by Hudson


I didn't say the other news outlets aren't biased. Of course they are! But I believe the rhetoric that comes from Fox News is much, much more aggressive. It is a personal opinion and obviously you believe differently. While the "liberal" news outlets try to make us afraid of "right-wingers", Fox News is out there trying to drive "right-wingers" crazy to give MSNBC and CNN something to fear monger us about. Get it? It's all part of the same damn agenda to divide us all. Obviously it's working pretty dang well.

The ONLY thing we can all unite over is how corrupt our government has gotten but were too busy saying "well your guy is more corrupt than my guy" and NOW they've thrown this new race card at us with "reverse racism" and illegal immigration. When the recession hit in the fall of 2008 a sense of being united was thick in the air. We saw with absolutely clear eyes what the hell was happening. Then they through Obama at us and it's game on once again.

This will all flip the other way once we have a conservative in the White House so I'm not saying that liberals are immune from the same type of "insanity".

reply to post by nunya13

But I believe the rhetoric that comes from Fox News is much, much more aggressive.

What are you basing this on?

Originally posted by Hudson
reply to post by ProjectJimmy

 

Well alright, I'd ask you to explain this a bit more, how I am being exclusionary here? What did I say it was unacceptable to discuss?

You and others here have suggested that reporting on voter intimidation and the DOJ disinterest in it, is racist or instigates violence.

What, were have I ever said that or even suggested it? I've said myself that I think it was indeed intimidating. The thing I said is that the single case of voter intimidation, note one case, is absolutely trivial compared to the violence and oppression that blacks have suffered in America.

Is what the NBPP did bad? Absolutely yes, it's just wrong and it is in fact racist of them to do. However that does not at all make blacks just as racist as whites because of a single incident. Institutional racism, which I believe is the worst kind needs power behind it, and power is something that still resides mostly in the hands of white men in the US.

What is in fact racist is to only defend one race on the charge of racism. When you only look out for your own skin color, that is very racist.

reply to post by ProjectJimmy


Wow, preaching black theology.

Tell me Jimmy, how much does the white man have to give the black man for wrongs done say 20 years ago? 30, 40, 50, 300?

Seems to me I did a little investigation into my background.

A little Irish in my ancestory. Found some evidence of parts being indentured servants. When do those that were indentured servants get some of the black theology reparations.

I find the stuff I just spotted in your last comment to be enlightening.

You know the Irish were 5th class citizens for about 150 years. I think we should give all Irish people reparations. Then, we should give.........

This looking to the past and attempting to right wrongs on a collective scale is EVIL. Pure and simple EVIL.

You are espousing the same things THEY did.

Originally posted by Y2KJMan

Why do you believe that liberal/progressive ideas are so inherently dangerous, and what basis do you have for the distrust of the organizations you mentioned beyond what Mr. Beck has said on his show?

The basis I have for distrusting the massive power grab is history. It has been repeated many times, a government not accountable to the people always, ALWAYS, infringes on the rights of the people.

Why are my tax dollars going to programs I do not appove of? WIC I approve of, federal subsidies of abortions for any reason I do not. That is a religous belief, so why is the federal government walking all over my freedom to believe and practice how I do? I do not support the wars, yet I pay for them. I do not support most welfare programs, yet I pay for them all. SSC, Medicare, the list goes on. Does this make me a pitiless human being that doesnt care for others? NO!

This administration like the ones before it, are doing nothing to help solidify our rights. They are doing nothing to enforce our borders, nothing to check the corporations at the top that are stealing from Americans. Nothing to ensure that our elected leaders (the ones that are supposed to be above reproach) are actually not corrupt. Rangle is gonna get a slap on the wrist.

Is this a purely Obama generated crisis? No, however, much of the blame lies on him due to the trampling of the constitution that is committed day in and day out. I know politicians lie, I cannot look other way when the one document that has protected us as citizens to this point is picked apart piece by piece in front of my own eyes.

White Americans may cry racism at say Affirmative Action policies in college admissions, yet they are still disproportionately highly represented in college enrollment. This comes from an gap in education and economic class that is present still in America. Everyone claims to be for a level playing field for all races, yet for this to be possible everyone must be able to start from the same line, and that is not reality yet. And that will rightly and justly piss off the people whom are playing against the odds.

Oh my god!!!! White people go to college! Can you believe it?

Affirmative Action has done more harm to the black community than it has helped as I see it. Yes it allows for more to enter the world of higher education, however, quotas allow for the substandard and underperformers to get admitted. Why try? They are going to admit you anyway based on your skin color.

Fair means the same standards for everyone, a white and black man must have the same test scores for admission. A white and black man must get arrested and penalized the same for the same crime. White, Black, Brown, Yellow, it doesnt matter... standards, consequences of actions, and any other aspect of life must be the same.

Affirmative Action undermines this core principle of EQUAL.


As a last remark, please spare me the whole... "I have a better way to look at things because I dont just live in America" crap. Americans deal with American problems the way Americans want, at least that is the way it should be. I dont care what the Brits, Israelis, French, Iranians, Indians, Pakistanis, Chinese, Russians, or any other nation thinks we should do. Leave America to the Americans, and we will leave England to the Brits.

Let's go down the list here shall we?

First, this current administration and congress is not the most "massive power grab in history" that's insane. This is the standard swing of the political pendulum in the United States. Remember President W. Bush actually had more power as he also had a majority of the supreme court as republican appointments. The Night Of The Long Knives was a power grab, the dissolution of the Roman Senate was a power grab, this is just politics as normal for America.

Second, your tax dollars have always gone to things you don't want them to, that's how it works for everyone. Pacifists still pay for the military with their tax dollars, get over it everyone's in the same boat and no, this is not a liberal or a conservative idea.

Third, What has President Obama done exactly that violates the constitution? Spell it out or let it go. Facts work great in arguments, again mindless talking points do not.

Fourth, If a black and a white college student could get the same educational level, then I would totally agree with getting rid of Affirmative Action, but again not everyone is starting on an even playing field. I went to college in the United States, and through my ethnicity I count as Asian in your nation. It is actually harder to get admitted to college as an Asian in the US than it is if you are white, because Asians are even more overrepresented. I've never seen anyone Asian whine about this like you are though, because we still understand power dynamics.

Finally, you tell me to but out because I'm not an American, and then you say that you Americans leave us Brits alone. Well you're completely wrong and misinformed.

I will leave the Americans alone when your nation stops treating mine like a lap-dog! Get over your American exceptionalism and start acting like a member of the world already instead of dictating what everyone else does while you are so above reproach that it is such an insult to even have to listen to any other nation speak.

If that argument does not hold any merit with you because of pure arrogance, then let me put it this way instead: We own a ton of your debt bonds, dating back a long time, (Regan loved to come to us for money) as such, we are investors in the United States, and I have every right to comment on the state of my investments.

Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by ProjectJimmy

 

Wow, preaching black theology.

Tell me Jimmy, how much does the white man have to give the black man for wrongs done say 20 years ago? 30, 40, 50, 300?

Seems to me I did a little investigation into my background.

A little Irish in my ancestory. Found some evidence of parts being indentured servants. When do those that were indentured servants get some of the black theology reparations.

I find the stuff I just spotted in your last comment to be enlightening.

You know the Irish were 5th class citizens for about 150 years. I think we should give all Irish people reparations. Then, we should give.........

This looking to the past and attempting to right wrongs on a collective scale is EVIL. Pure and simple EVIL.

You are espousing the same things THEY did.

I said nothing at all about giving anything back, I don't believe in reparations myself. What I am talking about is true equality, actually leveling the playing field, which will still take generations to do.

Anyone whom is just out for their own race is racist, in my opinion pure and simple.

I'm saying the playing field should be level, from the beginning. It will take us generations to get there I believe but we can do it, that's the only way we will ever get true egalitarian equality.

It looks to me like a Monarch mind control asset has malfunctioned here. It has activated too soon and now the company's spin doctor is working over time to make some use of the malfunctioning unit to conclude their assigned info-operation.

Inevitably I believe it will come up of how I would suggest to actually level the playing field for all races in the United States, well the answer I have is simple: Education and Equal Pay.

Why on earth do suburban schools in the US have upwards of three music teachers, while an urban school a few miles away of comparable size doesn't even have a music program? That is not equality, that's punishing people for not being able to afford to live in suburbs.

Your nation loves standardized testing like the SAT and ACT but you hate standardized education. You cannot expect to have it both ways. Doing something like federalizing your primary education would help to spread the tax burden between all citizens, and allow you to finally have equal funding of all schools. On top of this, spreading good teachers around all schools would allow for a more even education too. Only getting rid of failing schools without replacing them with better ones again just punishes the students.

Also a federalized system could get rid of absolutely idiotic ideas like teaching creationism alongside evolution. Those kind of local special-interest issues that interfere with your kids' education have made you the laughing stock of the industrialized world, it is time to move past such petty squabbles and really focus upon things that matter, like the arts, humanities, philosophy and the natural sciences.

Once you have a truly equal educational system, where all students get the same level and quality, then I would have absolutely no problem with getting rid of Affirmative Action in college admissions.

On the workforce side, there is still income inequality. White males still make more than minorities and women for the same job. Audit this, enforce the laws that you have, don't just turn a blind eye to it.

Once you have educational and income equality between all of the races and both sexes, then you will have made the biggest step towards egalitarianism. People will finally be judged by the content of their character and their real value to society. Until then, these are all at best stopgap measures and pissing into the wind.

First, this current administration and congress is not the most "massive power grab in history"

I never once said that it was the most massive power grab in history. Lets reread what I said there please

The basis I have for distrusting the massive power grab is history. It has been repeated many times, a government not accountable to the people always, ALWAYS, infringes on the rights of the people.

Second, your tax dollars have always gone to things you don't want them to, that's how it works for everyone. Pacifists still pay for the military with their tax dollars, get over it everyone's in the same boat and no, this is not a liberal or a conservative idea.

No, just because I have a differing ideal on how government should work, does not necessarily mean that I am wrong or you are right. Why is it that because I do not support where my tax dollars go, and believe I pay too much as is, I must get over it? Why can I not try to change the system?

Third, What has President Obama done exactly that violates the constitution? Spell it out or let it go. Facts work great in arguments, again mindless talking points do not.

First and foremost I am not gonna turn this into a birther argument, however, there are questions that must be answered. Why are there czars now? They were not part of the way the system was set up and now he has cabinet level (in power comparisons) without congressional approval. What about Obamacare? Just because Europe has programs like these does not make it Constitutional in America. I will spare you the rest of my gripes, just know there is many.

because Asians are even more overrepresented

So let me get this straight, because Asians typically do better in schoolwork... there are more of them in college? I do not see what is wrong with that statement. The reward should ALWAYS go to the one that is best suited and able to do the work. If that means that Asians are overrepresented then so be it.

You may not have heard an Asian complaining, do you travel in all circles? I remember out of my small class of 36 in High School, those that didnt get accepted into College bitched. Race, Color, Creed, Religion, it didnt matter. Hell I was one of them, I decided I wanted to join the military instead and I still complain about it to this day.

Finally, you tell me to but out because I'm not an American, and then you say that you Americans leave us Brits alone. Well you're completely wrong and misinformed.

I will leave the Americans alone when your nation stops treating mine like a lap-dog! Get over your American exceptionalism and start acting like a member of the world already instead of dictating what everyone else does while you are so above reproach that it is such an insult to even have to listen to any other nation speak.

If that argument does not hold any merit with you because of pure arrogance, then let me put it this way instead: We own a ton of your debt bonds, dating back a long time, (Regan loved to come to us for money) as such, we are investors in the United States, and I have every right to comment on the state of my investments.

This is a bunch of drivel, you are now grasping at straws to find a reason to be justified in your want to influence our opinions and actions in our own sovereign nation. Yes America may have some influence over England, was it me that did that? Was it the American people? No... it was political in nature and always will be. I am speaking for the common man, the one that does not care about the rest of the world and their day to day woes. There are things we need to fix in this fine country of ours, and the lack of respect for the Constition and Bill of Rights is the single most important for me aside from Families and God.

I dont care if you hold our debt, what are you gonna do if we decide not to pay? Nuke us? Good luck in conventional war.

Why on earth do suburban schools in the US have upwards of three music teachers, while an urban school a few miles away of comparable size doesn't even have a music program? That is not equality, that's punishing people for not being able to afford to live in suburbs.

I have one answer for this:
There is no enumerated constitutional right to an education. Therefore the federal government has no business in our education system at all, calling for them to run it is not the answer.

OMG, there are alot of US that believe that the Theory of Evolution is not the correct answer for the origins of life. Oh NOES!!!! There are those of us that believe that God, a creator, or some other entity created life as we know it on Earth. Silence us please! We are no goodniks only here to shovel these falsehoods on all of humanity!

Spare me the speach, we have a freedom to believe what we believe for whatever reasons we so choose. My children (3 of them so far) will most likely be homeschooled from day one. I do not want them taught that there is no god, and that capitalism is evil with no redeeming qualities. I do not want them taught that human beings are not special, we are just the next step in the evolutionary chain. I dont care if you dont agree, it is my right to raise my children as I see fit.

Once you have educational and income equality between all of the races and both sexes, then you will have made the biggest step towards egalitarianism. People will finally be judged by the content of their character and their real value to society. Until then, these are all at best stopgap measures and pissing into the wind.

There is no way you can fight human nature on this, there will never be a time where all races, creeds, genders etc get equal pay. There exists a situation where no matter what, those that are not like you get treated a different way. This has been shown throughout history and will be throughout the future. So in effect doing anything is pissing into the wind, so why have Aff Action at all?

reply to post by Y2KJMan


As everyone is an individual with individual needs and goals there can be no functional equality of outcome no matter what the mechanism of trying to make equality in all things possible.
Equality to all regardless of age and inclination? Not possible.
Ever.
What some desire, others have no need for, and some even hate. so how do you reconsile that? You cant. The only basic equality any govt can maintain is to leave all alone to their own productive lifestyles the best they can and create an equal evironment for that to be worked toward.