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Conspiracies Are A Form of Religion.

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posted on Jul, 27 2010 @ 08:33 AM
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I like conspiracies as much at the next person, they are fun and one tends to learn allot from researching them and listening to them. I however stop at that, for me reading up on conspiracies and researching them is just a hobby, something I do for fun, I truth I don’t really believe that many of them. I have always been struck however by the people on ATS who see the study of conspiracies as being something more, for some it is a live long quest to find the truth and “deny ignorance”. When listening to these same people I always notice two things, firstly their obvious impressive intellect and secondly the similarities their beliefs have with the structure of organised religion. In this thread I indented to explore to what extent the belief in conspiracies is religion are similar.

Firstly religion and conspiracies are both immune from reason and both are impervious to evidence that contradicts their theory. For example despite of all of the evidence in support of what actually happened on 7/7, the conspiracy theorists still hold on to their firm beliefs. Even in the face of evidence that shows a theory to be false such as showing evidence that you don’t have a RFID chip implanted on your person, the evidence is dismissed as suspect irrelevant or better yet, the experimenters are apparently in on the conspiracy. Conspiracy theorists will often move from this fanatical dismissal of evidence to showing evidence that backs up their theory. This evidence usually comes from a bias source, such as the 9/11 truth movement, this is similar to a person of religion pointing to their religious book to show evidence that their God exists.

Another comparison that can be drawn between religion and conspiracy theories is that both ascribe to the idea controlling great powerful to invisible forces. Often these shadowy spectres are one of several possible groups including the New World Order, the American government the Illuminati, the Jews, the Builderberg Group, Trilateral Commission and even those evil reptilian aliens that the queen metamorphosizes into at night.

These forces appear to be like omnipotent beings that religious people would call “Gods”. Conspiracy theorists have the “believers” and “non-believers” (or sceptics) and then the anti-Christ of the conspiracy religion the “debunkers”. Sceptics are like the agnostics (sometimes atheists) who are not convinced enough to say they believe what the conspiracy theorists do, but keep a open mind. Debunkers are like the anti-Christ because not only do they not believe like the sceptics they seek to prove the conspiracy theorists wrong and discredit them. The parallels between conspiracy theory and religion are obvious.

Therefore I don’t think it is conspiracy theory but more conspiracy faith, it is a religion and ATS is its modern-day temple for the faithful clergy. I do not doubt that there might be some element of truth in what is said, just like I believe in God I do believe in some conspiracies but I think these are similar, both are religious so one could say in a sense I am polytheistic



[edit on 27-7-2010 by kevinunknown]




posted on Jul, 27 2010 @ 09:04 AM
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reply to post by kevinunknown
 

As someone who studies history, I've been able to see the same analogy ever since I arrived on ATS.

One difference at the moment is that religion focusses on objects of worship, whereas conspiracy theory focusses on objects of fear. But, historically, how much religion began with attempts to placate objects of fear?

One interesting similarity which you haven't noticed is a tendancy towards syncretism. Avid syncretism of different belief systems is all over the place on this site- are the Illuminati really lizards, and are the Freemasons controlled by the Vatican? etc etc








[edit on 27-7-2010 by DISRAELI]



posted on Jul, 27 2010 @ 09:17 AM
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reply to post by DISRAELI
 


Yes i suppose you are right on that one, there is allot of that going on. Quite often this merging of groups in theories is one way the conspiracy theorists use to explain the NWO and other theories. Interesting point thanks.



posted on Jul, 27 2010 @ 10:00 AM
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reply to post by kevinunknown
 


a conspiracy is subject A working with subject B so that subject C doesnt reap the same benefit.

could be information, money, work, politics, even religion, but it is not a religion.



posted on Jul, 27 2010 @ 10:34 AM
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Originally posted by Myendica
reply to post by kevinunknown
 


a conspiracy is subject A working with subject B so that subject C doesnt reap the same benefit.

could be information, money, work, politics, even religion, but it is not a religion.


I think what kevinunknown meant to say is that collections of conspiracy theories are a sort of dogma for a group of people, not the actual conspiracies them selves.



posted on Jul, 27 2010 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by kevinunknown
 


Major flaw in your premise; it's a fact that conspiracies exist, history has proven that without a doubt.

Religion, or at least the existance of a higher power has never been proven.

So not every conspiracy theory may be true, but at least some are true, religion has never been proven true.



posted on Jul, 27 2010 @ 10:42 AM
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reply to post by Point of No Return
 


Yes but when I am talking about conspiracy theories, not conspiracy fact, the difference is very important. Most conspiracies don’t come true or can’t be proven to be true. In religion the absence of proof does not mean that God does not exist, and allot of conspiracies work the same way. For example people may believe that the NWO exists, but cannot provide solid tangible proof this absence of hard proof however does not make them wrong.



posted on Jul, 27 2010 @ 10:52 AM
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reply to post by kevinunknown
 





For example people may believe that the NWO exists, but cannot provide solid tangible proof this absence of hard proof however does not make them wrong.


If there was proof, it wouldn't be a conspiracy THEORY, now would it.

There are real time indications that a NWO exists, even politicians use the term.

What real time indications for the existance of a god are available?

Religion-conspiracy theory: not at all the same.



posted on Jul, 27 2010 @ 11:58 AM
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I think people make the same geralizations when it comes to conpiracy and religion. Conspiracy ≠ RFID,NWO,Illuminati,Neo Con and FEMA camps and Religion ≠ Christianity and all judeo christian religions. There are those that think that the tap water is made to poison your pineal gland so you are more suggestable by the Reptilian star commander and you have RFID chips in your teeth in the form of bit of food. Just as there're people that think dinosaur bones were put there by the devil to tempt your faith. These viewpoints do not represent the views of everyone in the associated circles and i believe that it is this that trips people up.
There are too many conspiracies to list that are based off of fact to list. The Liberatores, Babington Plot, conspiracy of 1865, The Gun Powder Plot, The Bye Plot and on and on.



posted on Jul, 27 2010 @ 12:21 PM
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To some extent, all belief systems including religions require one to accept certain facts that are impossible to prove or disprove. For example, in order to be a Christian one must accept Jesus was the son of god and everything he said in the Gospels was true. If you question this, you cannot be a Christian. In order to believe in Mathematics, you must accept without question the postulates in you Geometry and Mathematics textbooks are true. If you question these postulates, you cannot believe Mathematics is true.

Conspiracy theorists are no different. They make (or do not make) certain assumptions about the world that cannot be proved or disproved (at least in many people's eyes). This is not to knock conspiracy theorists, because skeptics of conspiracy theorists make similar assumptions.



posted on Jul, 27 2010 @ 12:21 PM
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Like you, conspiracies are merely a hobby for me...some I give more credence to than others, but most all are interesting and worthy of discussion.

However, there are those that live out these conspiracies aka Mel Gibson in "Conspiracy Theory." And you can see it in their threads and responses, the passion with which they defend their theories and denigrate any opposing ideas or proof.

On the other hand, someone can make a religion out of anything...sports, racing, Paris Hilton, BBQ...etc.



posted on Jul, 27 2010 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by kevinunknown
Therefore I don’t think it is conspiracy theory but more conspiracy faith, it is a religion and ATS is its modern-day temple for the faithful clergy.
[edit on 27-7-2010 by kevinunknown]

We gonna put copies of 'Above Top Secret'-the book- in hotel dressers and nightstands now?



posted on Jul, 27 2010 @ 12:31 PM
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conspiracies are not religion.

religion is faith based. and while some people may take something and run with it because they like the way it sounds, others are out there trying to find facts. just because the few treat it that way, doesnt make it so.

once a conspiracy is validated, it ceases to be a conspiracy and becomes reality.



posted on Jul, 27 2010 @ 12:46 PM
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I think more to the point of the OP, conspiracies serve the same function for people as religion.
The mechanics may differ, but the emotional purpose seems the same, as outlined in some of the posts above.
Both do require faith ( belief), are strong on good vs evil, ultimate destiny, etc., unknown forces at work. Plus it places the believer in a positiion of drama, they become the "insider", have special knowledge, etc.
They are very similar.



posted on Jul, 27 2010 @ 01:25 PM
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Wooooo ! My first reply on ATS !

OP - how do you define "conspiracy theorists"? How many conspiracies do you have to believe in to be considered conspiracy theorist? There are a lot of topics covered on this site. I think you’re pointing to a very small minority people who visit ATS.

I'm not sure how many ATS members there are but you certainly can not throw all of us into the same category. It's easy to tell that that different ATS members are interested in different topics. We come to ATS to share our knowledge for those who have similar interests. We also come to learn from others. We have freedom to choose what we read on ATS and what we don't. Just because I’m an ATS member doesn’t mean I have to read and believe everything that is written in every forum.

However, with organized religion, one group pretty much believes the same thing. With religion you can't pick and choose what you believe and don't. Catholics have their own beliefs, Muslims and Buddhists have their own too. Catholics don't go around reading Torah's. The fact is, if you are officially part of an organized religion, you have a certain set of beliefs. You also believe that you are right, and every other religion has it wrong.

ATS is not a religion.. it's noting like a religion. People who seek the truth are not all part of the same conspiracy religion. We seek answers to the things we don’t understand. That is human nature. We come to ATS to find like minded thinkers. I can’t go to an ESPN forum to talk about what’s really going on in the Gulf of Mexico. ATS is exactly what it portrays itself to be.. a forum to discuss and debate alternative topics… that’s it.

The one thing you have right is the ying and yang element that is present here. Debunkers and skeptics are also here for a reason; to keep the rest of us “conspiracy theorists” in check. ATS needs non believers just as much as it needs believers. We welcome debate here.. not the same with religion.

Anyway, that's my post... 1 down, 19 to go =)



posted on Jul, 27 2010 @ 01:49 PM
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reply to post by kevinunknown
 

You are re-iterating an article in the New Scientist recently. It was very very interesting and a must read for all on ATS. However, catch 22 comes into play. Those who don't want to know that they are behaving irrationally will not read the article or even worse label it a conspiracy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm afraid you have to accept that there are many here on ATS who believe in total ...... (insert colloquialism of choice). They get quite animated as well defending their stance (all in line with the behaviour outlined in that article).

As for facts PAH, all a conspiracy


[edit on 27/7/10 by malcr]



posted on Jul, 27 2010 @ 01:58 PM
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reply to post by malcr
 


I would like to see that article; I actually go the idea for this thread by going over one of my old threads, discussing how we need to believe in conspiracies. Its a addiction to that thread if you like, however i would very much like it if you could link me to the article you saw in new scientist.

Thanks.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 02:10 PM
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Just another comparison that popped into my head today, both religion and conspiracies are arguably a means for man to explain that which he does not fully understand, or is not meant to understand.



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 12:36 PM
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What a great thread.

At the risk of jumping on the bandwagon, I have to say your exact premise has occurred to me over and over again while perusing ATS.

I suppose I (we) am (are) somewhat intellectually elitist, but I think you're right and I think it has to do with the matter of dealing with things of significance for which you have no proof.

It's a super touchy subject because, like you say, faith plays a key role. And when people who don't have faith engage with people who do have faith, there's fireworks; hence, all the believers/skeptics hullabaloo in almost every single thread on ATS.

It's also why I think there's a plethora of threads reenacting the atheist/believer debate over and over ... in effect, it's the same argument as aliens/no aliens, alien crop circles/man-made crop circles, UFOs/Chinese lanterns, Chupacabra/rabid coyote, shadow man or hat man/low visibility w/fog and shadows, et al.



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 07:45 PM
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reply to post by kevinunknown
 


It's all been evident since the Separation of Church and State, whatever date the Historians ascribe to it now.

I've noted that Religious peoples tend to aspire to gain strength from sin, and live in mediocrity--whereas the SyFy trend setters have a lavish lifestyle, and play flashy games.

My personal case, I became involved in a Church based recovery group, Translation of Bible=$20US, $6US work booklets.
PC Games, if/when Blizzard kicks them out=~$50US per game. Plus, merchandise if I choose (seldom do, though).

But, enough rambling; I see your point there based the same. Where, the subscriber interprets the situaion and customizes it to their own desires/points-of-view.

Now then, who wants to verse me that 'you're the only one that can save me from Alien Invasion with tactics and/or pull me from the Lake of Fire?



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