Need help dividing/marking a astronomical wheel-, page 1

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Topic started on 26-7-2010 @ 11:43 PM by LeoVirgo

Hey ATS...

Im needing some help marking a astronomical wheel into 'days'.

Here is the image I am needing additions to...

Notice the outer wheel...its the astronomical wheel (the wheel of the true signs the sun passes through as well as their true amount of space).

Im not real savvy making additions to this image that are precise...and I am needing to have equal segments all around the OUTER WHEEL to show the days within each sign that the Sun is in them truly.

Here are the segment dates for each sign below....

Leo August 10 - September 15
Virgo September 16 - October 30
Libra October 31 - November 22
Scorpio November 23 - November 29
Ophiuchus November 30 - December 17
Sagittarius December 18 - January 17
Capricorn January 18 - February 15
Aquarius February 16 - March 11
Pisces March 12 - April 16
Aries April 17 - May 13
Taurus May 14 - June 19
Gemini June 20 - July 20
Cancer July 21 - August 9

What kind of program could I use to make a segmented circle showing each day of the year in equal segments?

After this there would still need some computing/additions...for some of the above dates may vary from 1 day....but if I could learn how to do this or just get a general wheel with equal divisions all the way around it this would be a start.

Anyone willing to help...extra time on their hands?

Would the wheel even work...mabey there are signs listed about that have 8 days within its dates but mabey the sign on the wheel will only fit 7 days within it.

Im just trying to figure out how to bring the above image and the division dates into one wheel. I tried programs like 'paint' but I cant figure how to make this a mathematical divided wheel.

If you need to know the labels for the signs they represent...you can scroll down on the below link and find the chart...it lists all the signs, even Ophiuchus 'sign'.

en.wikipedia.org...

Ideas?

[edit on 26-7-2010 by LeoVirgo]

[edit on 26-7-2010 by LeoVirgo]

reply posted on 26-7-2010 @ 11:52 PM by monguzi

have you purchased Almagest? or studied any of Ptolemy's work?

if you have sorry, im no help...

you might be able to find the Almagest online though.

reply posted on 27-7-2010 @ 12:13 AM by LeoVirgo

reply to post by monguzi

Thanks for the reply but I am pretty sure that even though he acknowledge in his notes that the sun did pass through Ophiuchus, that he still made his wheels of the zodiac without Ophiuchus in it as well as did not divide the signs into their real amount of space.

I was lucky to find the wheel I posted in the OP....that has the 13 signs divided into their actual degrees.

Im guessing that each degree would be a day...365 days, 365 degrees....but I just need to geometrically make sure that I divide the degrees equally....

I see a few problems with it already...for example, some signs say the degree of the sign is a 'half' like Scorpio is 6.5degree...meaning the sun is in Scorpio for 6 and a half days. So it would also need find tuning.

But I really need to get this figured out...and would appreciate so much in any feedback how to do this right.

Im thinking that in the signs that have 'half' days...then the cusp/border of the sign will be the other half of day, meaning the Sun is on a cusp that day of the year.

I can fine tune the details tomorrow, finding out what days the Sun is on the cusps...mabey that would help fill in the segments.

But also, could we not just take a circle the same size...mathematically put 365 equal segments all the way around it...and then I could work out the fine tuning with the dates.

I know there are some here that could help me and it probably wouldnt take them long at all (those that know programs or whatever to do this).

reply posted on 27-7-2010 @ 12:39 AM by LeoVirgo

How can I take a image like this that is divided into 'days'/'degrees' and add the markings only to my outer wheel on the image in my OP?

Just equally divided all the way around the outer wheel...

reply posted on 27-7-2010 @ 12:46 AM by davidgrouchy

I hope this is accurate enough to help.

The white marks are 52 week long periods.
So there will be seven days from one to the next.
We'd need a much larger circle to divide it into days.

David Grouchy

reply posted on 27-7-2010 @ 12:59 AM by LeoVirgo

reply to post by davidgrouchy

Thank you!!

This is a great start....

Did you notice the wheel I posted after the first one...it has tiny little segments all around it. How could I overlap the images to gain the segments of the one and place them on to the other? Is that possible without having all the other images also over lapping?

It seems like this should be so easy....I think Microsoft has some sort of geometric tool that can do it but the Microsoft pack I have seems to not have it.

But the week divisions is going to provide me with alot of things...so thanks so much for that!!

*hugs* and

reply posted on 27-7-2010 @ 01:07 AM by LeoVirgo

Playing with the image you made with the weeks...I think this will work just fine for now.

My reason for the smaller division is to be able to mark planets according to the degree they are in in the sign so I can make precise markings of where the planets sit so then I can see if there are planets in true oppositions or true square patterns ect...

A work in progress...but this is going to help me alot

If we made a bigger circle, then marked the degrees in each sign, could we then make the circle smaller again so I can use it as a regular image? Making it larger just to make the markings, and then make it back to its original size?

reply posted on 27-7-2010 @ 01:12 AM by LeoVirgo

Once I actually get all of this complete...and will more studying...Im hoping to use the final wheel in a book one day.

Hoping to tie ATS into the book too, share some credits as well.

The book is much more a work in progress though then just the wheel, the wheel is really the first stepping stone in making what I need to start such a book as well further research my ideas.

There are all sorts of astrology wheels out there divided into the degrees...but they wont work for what Im trying to do. I cant believe I cant find a astronomical wheel already divided up.

reply posted on 29-7-2010 @ 12:27 AM by davidgrouchy

Better?

David Grouchy

reply posted on 29-7-2010 @ 12:58 AM by LeoVirgo

reply to post by davidgrouchy

We are getting there

Im very appreciative

Is there any way to take that center white circle with the smaller line segments and strength that to where it would fit ontop of the outside wheel (the astronomical one)?

Even if it blocks the wheel and its divisions...I can adjust it all on paper through printing and marking the signs and divisions as I need them.

Am I making any sense?

The outside wheel is the one I want to use...at the same time I want to be able to see all 3 wheels for comparisons. To make accurate positions on the astronomical wheel, I need it divided with the little segments to show the degrees of the circle.

Or....I guess I could take the smaller circles segments...and stretch them out from the center to the outside, that would still give me the divisions I am wanting on the outer circle as long as my lines are straight (:@@

Im very thankful for your time and help...

Going to practice and play with the circle and see if I can mark what I am wanting to with it. If I succeed...Ill come back and posts a image of what Im trying to do with the cosmos. Im trying to make a astronomical wheel that will mark the sun, moon, and planets with the true space of the signs and the true positions of the cosmos.

Very grateful
LV

reply posted on 29-7-2010 @ 03:24 AM by davidgrouchy

Sure,
simple enough.

David Grouchy

reply posted on 29-7-2010 @ 11:07 AM by LeoVirgo

reply to post by davidgrouchy

You are a kind person for helping

Excuse me for a few while I play around with the wheel...

Have you ever tried to mark a wheel with the placements of the planets, moon, and Sun?? Im curious how I find the degrees of each planets placements...the Sun is easy, the moon doesnt seem to hard....but the planets, seem a little tough.

My best to you always
LV

[edit on 29-7-2010 by LeoVirgo]

reply posted on 29-7-2010 @ 11:31 AM by americandingbat

Originally posted by LeoVirgo

Have you ever tried to mark a wheel with the placements of the planets, moon, and Sun?? Im curious how I find the degrees of each planets placements...the Sun is easy, the moon doesnt seem to hard....but the planets, seem a little tough.

Hi LeoVirgo

I have a couple suggestions on this.

First, if you're still using Stellarium, there is an "angle measure" plugin available. Go to the Configuration window and choose "Plugins" and I think you should see an option for enabling it. Then you can type Command (or Control)-A to use it to measure an angle along the ecliptic from the beginning of the sign you're looking at to the planet whose angle you want to measure.

Depending on how much image manipulation you're willing to learn, an easier way is to use a site like astro.com to get a traditional sidereal chart, and then layer it over your wheel. You'll have to rotate them to get them lined up first.

When I was looking at your other thread a couple weeks ago I was inspired to do this for my own birth chart. The planetary alignments relative to each other stay the same between your way of doing astrology and tropical/sidereal charts -- they're at the same relative positions in a 360 degree circle. All that changes is which sign they're in, and what part of that sign

Hope that was helpful, and not too confused

reply posted on 29-7-2010 @ 11:41 AM by LeoVirgo

reply to post by americandingbat

Hello american! Hope all is well!

Thanks for reading and adding here....I have in my mind what I want to do...but not so sure the best ways to do it

So I could have a inner circle using a regular astrology wheel and chart...and then just extend the lines out into the outer wheel...would this make sense? I notice when I do it this way with the sun...that the sun extends to the outer wheel in the correct place. Im wondering if this would work also with the planets?

Anything that can be added is so much appreciated to all...I thank you. This is a work in progress and I really never thought I would take it all this far....but the more I learn about the geometric patterns astrology talks of with the planets (like cardinal cross ect) the more I want to try to use the astronomical wheel to show these patterns.

I think that there are some differences in the placements and positions of the signs to the planets....cause astrology ignores Ophiuchus....and I have seen where this is going to cause some geometric patterns from astrology to not line up today. But most of the alignments are the same, just different signs, like you said.

Im such a newbie at using wheels...its not even funny.

A bit nervous, for I have a lot to learn about the astrological wheel first.

Its great to have feedback and people I can bounce ideas off of.

My best to you!
LV

reply posted on 29-7-2010 @ 11:51 AM by LeoVirgo

reply to post by americandingbat

Im going to try both idea you gave, using the Stellarium and the astro site.

Im thinking to really get into this...I need to print off several wheels, and like you suggested, over lay one and mark things off onto the other.

Thanks american

Edit to add.....

American...I am loving the angle tool you showed me on the stellarium! Love it..thank you!

[edit on 29-7-2010 by LeoVirgo]

[edit on 29-7-2010 by LeoVirgo]

reply posted on 29-7-2010 @ 11:59 AM by americandingbat

reply to post by LeoVirgo

There's nothing like actually doing one to learn about them, in my experience

Yes, just extending the lines should work pretty well. The site I linked puts the celestial meridian (the highest point of the ecliptic in the sky) slightly off from the center, so it might not be perfect. I'm not sure why they do this, or whether it affects the planet positions or only the signs. I have to go out this afternoon but will try and look into it some later, or maybe tomorrow.

When I did my own chart this way, I first tried to use the angle measure tool in Stellarium, but it's kind of hard because it's really a matter of how far into a sign the planet would be if it actually traveled right on the ecliptic, and of course other than the Sun the planets don't do that

And of course there's stuff that a wheel just can't capture, like how Pluto is sometimes so far off the ecliptic that it's not in one of the thirteen constellations that the Sun travels through at all.

Anyway, best of luck. If I figure out the celestial meridian thing I'll let you know

edit to add: glad you're enjoying the angle tool; I was pretty psyched when I found it too

[edit on 7/29/2010 by americandingbat]

reply posted on 29-7-2010 @ 12:49 PM by LeoVirgo

reply to post by americandingbat

Im seeing a few issues that with each planet I would need to resolve, like you said, they dont follow the ecliptic path perfectly and what I am doing is charting the path of the planet through the sign first, seeing what path it takes through the sign, then marking that path with the angle line....trying a few things out as I go.

I came up with a quick wheel that Im sure is not perfect, but pretty darn close.

One of my points Im trying to bring to light is that the positions in astrology dont match perfectly since the wheel Im using has a extra sign. There is alot of talk right now about a cardinal cross going on in the astrological wheels and Im curious if I can still see this in the astronomical wheel or if it has changed the geometric pattern with a extra sign included.

So I have a general wheel with Sun, Moon, Mercury, Mars, Saturn, Uranus, and Jupiter marked off and I think they are all pretty close to their positions on the wheel.

Very rough draft mind you....I need to find a better program that lets me upload the symbols and mark things off better.