Why does the European Union scare some people?, page 2

Originally posted by muppet
Hi Strangelands (again!)

Aloha. It seems we're going to keep bumping into one another on threads like these

Originally posted by muppet
As a Scot.. what's there feeling up there about the EU? I know I'm asking you to generalize, but this and our discussion on the other thread had me thinking about the implications if for example England came down very strongly in the No camp, and Scotland very stongly in the Yes camp..

Well, I can only draw conclusions from my own experience, but I think the situation in Scotland is something like this...

Generally, Scots are in favour of the EU: partly because we're accustomed to being ruled from a different country, partly because we have strong agricultural and manufacturing industries which benefit from contact with the EU, and partly because we have historic links to Europe which England doesn't - many in Scotland still refer to France as "the auld ally". The Nationalist movement in Scotland also supports closer ties with Europe, since they think that a distinctly Caledonian presence in the EU will make the ultimate leap to independance all the easier.

As for the future, that's harder to judge. Should the UK sign up the EU in full, I don't foresee disagreement or trouble from Scotland. If, on the other hand, Blair takes us further from the heart of Europe, I suspect that may further galvanise the nationalist movement, resulting in a greater call for independance. As I said before, if the UK pulls out of the EU, Scotland and Wales won't be part of it for long, particularly when you remember that Scotland is larger than some of the countries which are full members of the EU in their own right.

Mind you, to read The Last Free Man's posts, you'd think England was the name of our country already... but being a northerner, you probably feel as removed from London as I do, am I right?

Originally posted The Last Free Man
Seeing as my grandfather died to prevent Germany from telling me how to live my life I'm not about to surrender that because you think its a good idea.

Assuming your grandfather died in one of the world wars and not in some horrific industrial accident, I'm going to assume that he died, like all the heroes who fell inthose wars, in the name of liberty and democracy. Don't you owe it to all those who gave their lives - your grandfather in particular - to look beyond petty nationalism and embrace a peaceful, harmonious, and above all positive future?

Originally posted The Last Free Man
Hmm, most British farmers are living on less than �11,000 a year and many are going bankrupt. So you must have a real job.

Is this point really important enough that you felt the urge to make it twice? It does, however, bring me to an interesting nugget of information I uncovered today.

According to the latest figures from the independant National Institute of Economic and Social Research, full withdrawal from Europe would cost this country �23 billion a year in grants, supplements, trade agreements, tax concessions and so on. In addition, we export �105 billion worth of goods to the EU every year - a figure which would be reduced by up to 50%, according to analysts. Add to that the prediction that economic growth in the UK would be a startling 2.5% lower if we withdrew from the EU, and you have a glimpse at the economic wreckage which would be left in the UKIP's wake if they got their way.

Perhaps the most interesting fact, however, is that it would take in excess of two hundred full-time lawyers eight years - and between two and two-and-a-half parliamentary term's worth of legislation - to sever the links between the UK and the EU.

I'm pretty sure we can all think of better things Parliament could be doing with their time - like ignoring the minority of naysayers and getting more involved at the heart of the great European project, constructing a political, social, idealogical and economic framework which will be a gift to our children and our children's children.

After all, The Last Free Man, don't you want to leave your descendants a better world than the one the men of your grandfather's generation left for us?

[edit on 18-6-2004 by StrangeLands]