reply to post by Gorman91
You're probably right, this whole thing could turn into nothing at all. Could have been a small slip that everyone forgets about. I guess we'll
find out soon enough, but I can't imagine a movie being released like this, without some preliminary "setting of the stage". From that
perspective, even a blip could be significant, because it serves the function of making a "record", something for the media machine to come back to,
as a further phase is unveiled. But, that would be strictly from the more or less conspiratorial perspective that most people would rather not think
I guess at this late stage in the thread, you have already made your feelings known about the seemingly necessary aspects of fascism, which you
approve of. You acknowledge that it isn't a popular position, but I certainly applaud your courage in sharing about some of the personal demons you
have fought, it helps explain it some.
I'm not sure there is a huge difference between Europe and America, as you seem to emphasize, at least not in regards to basic freedoms. The idea of
"freedom of speech" is not one that depends so much on your continent. You might recall that many "American" notions are rather inherited from
their English and French ideological progenitors. You repeat a bit of the recent war-torn European history in order to make your point, namely, that
Europeans are largely OK with having abandoned this essential freedom, which may be true, but when should they get it back?
Again, basic freedoms are not something "American", that anyone would want to impose upon Europe. Or, as you put it...
...simply questioning in general of stupid things lead to more problems. And again, Europe is not America. So you cannot think the same way. To force
your values on Europeans is as bad as what you claim to be fighting against.
Absolutely, we should not "force" our "values", but again, I would ask, when should the very-happy-to-have-no-freedom-of-speech Europeans, ever
get it back?
The real question here should be obvious. It's not so much about Americans imposing our values, but quite the other way around. There is a global
"value" if you will, that is trending towards the European version of it. I would suggest that it may not be long before America also submits to
the boot in this regard.
No doubt, there will be apologists for the eradication of this essential freedom, when it finally arrives in America. No doubt, we shall be treated
to history lessons, that somehow help us better "accept" why it should be so. But make no mistake, a basic human freedom such as this, can not be
legislated away. It will still be with us, regardless of history, or who is in charge at that particular moment of time.
I don't honestly think you can have your cake, and eat it too on this one. You speak as though that might be the case, but perhaps you are paying a
bit of lip-service, no disrespect intended. You say...
Thought is free, yea. But how you use it counts. If you use it to build agenda and deceive, it is a crime of deception and conspiracy and lies.
After all. Would you not say that the thought of enslaving the world within the minds of government leaders is a crime?
Now you can't and should not arrest anyone on this. But once you speak your mind for the pure purpose of stirring anger and violence, maybe you
should be prosecuted if it's lies.
I'm not sure many would speak their minds to purely stir up violence, but what if they did? Would it always be a crime? When the blacks in America
a generation ago, raised their voice, yes, IN ANGER, yes, with the intention of "stirring" things up (to the point that the military was called in
to get them back under control), should there have been laws in place to send them to jail?
It's quite clear that laws such as "hate crime" laws (an issue you brought up), are dangerous. They are dangerous precisely because those in
power, who are certainly not always just, and moral, can use these laws to perpetuate injustice. And "if" they can use them in that way, I would
humbly suggest that they eventually will. (Actually they have already, but I don't want to go down that trail right now.)
if you are using your minds to stir hate based on lies and distorted truths, then you really are no better then When Obama goes on stage and promises
transparency and lies, or Bush declaring the war over, and we still fight it.
Fine, but soon you will need a body of wise men to tell us all about what "truth" is "distorted", or not. We will need someone to tell us what is
"approved", or not. Would those appointed to such a lofty position be likely to ever figure out anything about something like "truth"? Pontius
Pilate said it, "What is truth...?" There is a whole lot to that very Roman statement, but it may go beyond the obvious I suppose.
Yes, some thoughts may be a "crime" as you say. But even though you say that people shouldn't be arrested for it, you do in fact contradict
yourself (read your words again, perhaps I misconstrued them).
You simply can not have your cake and eat it too.