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Oliver Stone: Jewish control of the media is preventing free Holocaust debate

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posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 04:20 AM
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reply to post by ken10
 


Like I said earlier. Everyone was savages. But that does not change the fact why they were there to begin with. To be killed.




posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 07:51 AM
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I wanted to add this to my earlier post about our modern brand of fascism, smiley faced fascism, but it is too late to make the edit.

Enjoy:



. . . and stamp this noxious disease out!

Edit: To acknowledge Gahan Wilson, one of the all time greatest American cartoonists, who came up with the smiley face stormtrooper idea. Brilliant guy.



[edit on 29-7-2010 by ipsedixit]



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 09:25 AM
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Well... a day later and wouldn't you know it... Stone is being blasted in the media. So umm... doesn't that just go to show that he is right???

It's getting crazy that anytime you so much as question Israel or something to do with Jews you are chastised and basically run out of town. What are they so afraid of?



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 10:22 AM
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reply to post by DerekJR321
 


No. Mel Gibson got blasted for insulting his wife. Bush got blasted for being a retard.

Isn't that funny? One of the closest-to-Israel-anti-Muslim presidents was utterly destroyed in the media.

Correlation does not mean connection.

[edit on 29-7-2010 by Gorman91]



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 10:35 AM
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This thread has gone off the rails from what I've been reading. Still hasn't recovered. The usual suspects too. It's descended into the infantile.

BUT, back to Oliver Stone. Seems like most on ATS are taking this this guy at face value. He has said "this", and so that proves "that"...really?

Is he what he appears to be? Can we honestly expect anything different than his usual? If so, why?

I remember when the talk about the coming JFK movie had many people saying, "Finally!"

And then, we went to his movie. Duh. Oh sure, he was at least a wee bit "suggestive" of a Masonic role... Did we get ANYTHING "new"?

What the guy did with JFK was take advantage of an issue that was emotional.

Same thing, different day (but, maybe more going on with this one). Oliver Stone has probably been observing the emotional, almost "hysterical" aspects to this part of history, and may I venture to say, on behalf of all "anti-semites", the man's Jewish half finally got the better of him! He simply could not resist this low-hanging fruit, and is probably going to make some serious money on his chutzpah.

BUT, there could be more to it, from a conspiratorial angle. Many have come to realize that virtually EVERYTHING we are ever "allowed" to see, or hear, is already in some sense "approved" by our masters. Some may argue about how much power they may have, etc. Fine. But for the sake of argument, perhaps we should consider the possibility that this "message" has reached us, by design.

And when I say "by design", I don't simply mean because Stone has willed it so. Not at all. Probably most do not realize, but when you get to Stone's level, you simply do not say what ever you want to. And if it looks as if he did just that, what could it mean, if TPTB, had actually "planned" the whole thing? A bit too much perhaps?

Here's where some ATS-style scenarios might come in.

One big trend we have noticed in the past decades has been this growing fascism, worldwide. One ultimate goal, still down the road a bit, is to put the proverbial sock in any mouth that dares to utter anything against our masters. Now our masters may not care much about any "holocaust", but since they are likely to have created it to begin with, they may still have some interest in using it further.

So far, our masters have used the "Holocaust" to make THOUGHT a crime, in many nations. Hmm. A very powerful thing this "Holocaust". But, it seems to be doing the trick.

Still with me? Oliver Stone may in fact be playing his role in the next phase of this insidious operation, which would be to further criminalize thought. Americans, and a few others still, are able to legally spout-off about this sacred cow called the Holocaust, but it may not be the thing to focus on at all. The "Holocaust" is merely the emotional issue that is being used to get TPTB to their goal. Again, so far it's been working.

So, back to the scenario. Stone's film may not end up being anymore earth-shaking than his lame JFK. But, swirling all about the whole affair, is the propaganda machine. Imagine it. Many very old WW2 survivors aren't going to be with us for long. Perhaps it's time to trot them out for one last mega-pity-party. The end of it all will be new legislation. And then, the door can finally be shut, not just on free speech, but literally on free thought.

In this scenario, Stone's movie will serve as the catalyst for a PR circus environment that could get ugly, real fast.

I don't like to make predictions really, but if I was to guess, one indicator to keep watch for is the "Christian" reaction. If this is really more about another way to kill our freedoms, then the total campaign will be more comprehensive than just the media's attention, and particular spin.

When we see the "Christian" pastors on TV, and the former Hitler Youth pope bowing, and scraping, and begging for a bigger set of handcuffs for us all, then we'll know, the fix is in, and we were all duped into thinking it was supposed to be about the Leftist half-Jew (Hating), money grubbing, Oli Stone. Yes, and all along, there was the hidden agenda.

I think there could be more going on here than meets the eye. I'd like to hear what others think, although if I was to guess, we're just going to keep talking about the "6 million"....Hey! That WORKS! If we keep repeating the same damn thing, over and over, no one will ever focus on what's really going on. Brilliant! Our masters must really laugh at us.

JR



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 11:00 AM
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reply to post by JR MacBeth
 


Um, no. It was a little bleep from what someone said, he apologied, and no one remembers it except the people on this thread.

And as has been said time after time again, Europe went through 2 world wars and a US-Soviet Occupation for decades later. They wanted to force a peace, any way possible. So yea, they banned questioning the holocaust. because such things lead to them being repeated, in the same way that questioning Germany's punishments lead to Hitler, questioning the Pope lead to war, and simply questioning in general of stupid things lead to more problems. And again, Europe is not America. So you cannot think the same way. To force your values on Europeans is as bad as what you claim to be fighting against.

And finally, yea, some thoughts are a crime. To think about murdering someone always over and over is pretty sadistic. I know because I went through a phase of imagining how to kill people in dozens of ways when I met them when I was younger. As far as I'm concerned, that was a thought crime against humanity. Acting on those ideas would be a crime.

Thought is free, yea. But how you use it counts. If you use it to build agenda and deceive, it is a crime of deception and conspiracy and lies.

After all. Would you not say that the thought of enslaving the world within the minds of government leaders is a crime?

Now you can't and should not arrest anyone on this. But once you speak your mind for the pure purpose of stirring anger and violence, maybe you should be prosecuted if it's lies.

I know this is very controversial and all that hate crime stuff. But in the end, if you are using your minds to stir hate based on lies and distorted truths, then you really are no better then When Obama goes on stage and promises transparency and lies, or Bush declaring the war over, and we still fight it.

[edit on 29-7-2010 by Gorman91]

[edit on 29-7-2010 by Gorman91]



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 11:18 AM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


What do you mean "no one remembers it?". The guy is being blasted just like I said. Here... I'll give you proof.
Group Calls Oliver Stone's Apology Insufficient

Is Oliver Stone going to blame the Jews for his hair transplant?

(why did he HAVE to apologize twice??)
ADL Accepts Oliver Stone's 2nd Apology

I could go on and on but what is the point? If any "goyam" so much as brings up the holocaust in a negative light they are anti-semetic and a nazi. Frankly its kindergarten behavior. Name calling. "YOUR ANTI SEMETIC!!". So???



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 11:23 AM
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reply to post by DerekJR321
 


Well actually, yea. That's because the overwhelming majority are.

Now you can criticize Israel for shizzle how ever much you like, and no news comes from it. Heard any news from these haters of Israel?

www.liveleak.com...

Hell I think the whole world would be better if the whole region was glassed.

But yea, questioning the official story of the holocaust 99% of the time means you hate Jews, as evident by Crimson_King about a page back.

Also, Mr Stone said he thought the Jews control the media and such, so it was a clear Mel Gibson moment. He was blaming the Jews for all the problems. Same pile of lard racists say. Thus proving once again that he was simply insulting Jews.

Now if you have a peer review paper with official sources and what not to prove something, then people will listen to you and make appropriate changes. That's how the number dropped to 6 million Jews killed from a previously higher number. Because scientific unbiased research was done into it with peer review and official sources.

But as of yet, this thread has not seed said papers for lowering the number further. And so such illusive documents prevent real discussion.

[edit on 29-7-2010 by Gorman91]



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 11:27 AM
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I knew about IBM's support. We used to joke in German class about the IBM Death Machine's. When my old German teacher was little he had the chance to move to the United States then later went to China to teach English. If you are reading this by any chance, YOUR AWESOME!

Oliver Stone make's interesting claims and only a close minded person would shut their ears to this kind of information. I really want to know what he has to offer. I am tired of all this... "Oh the Nazi's this, the Nazi's that." How about giving them credit where credit is do? Sure, they massacred tons of people, but we cannot ignore everything else they must have accomplished, scientifically and spiritually. What i am trying to say, you should discredit something just for having its imperfections, despite the body count.

[edit on 29-7-2010 by drkid]



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 11:47 AM
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reply to post by drkid
 


They offered nothing spiritually. But it's safe to say that every single modern military machine the Germans invented, ranging from MBTs to Assault rifles, to night vision, jets, etc etc.

But that was not what Stone was talking about. He was talking about the Jews in the media, of which they do not have control if it, as a previously shown video on this page demonstrates.



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 11:53 AM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


You're probably right, this whole thing could turn into nothing at all. Could have been a small slip that everyone forgets about. I guess we'll find out soon enough, but I can't imagine a movie being released like this, without some preliminary "setting of the stage". From that perspective, even a blip could be significant, because it serves the function of making a "record", something for the media machine to come back to, as a further phase is unveiled. But, that would be strictly from the more or less conspiratorial perspective that most people would rather not think about.

I guess at this late stage in the thread, you have already made your feelings known about the seemingly necessary aspects of fascism, which you approve of. You acknowledge that it isn't a popular position, but I certainly applaud your courage in sharing about some of the personal demons you have fought, it helps explain it some.

I'm not sure there is a huge difference between Europe and America, as you seem to emphasize, at least not in regards to basic freedoms. The idea of "freedom of speech" is not one that depends so much on your continent. You might recall that many "American" notions are rather inherited from their English and French ideological progenitors. You repeat a bit of the recent war-torn European history in order to make your point, namely, that Europeans are largely OK with having abandoned this essential freedom, which may be true, but when should they get it back?

Again, basic freedoms are not something "American", that anyone would want to impose upon Europe. Or, as you put it...



...simply questioning in general of stupid things lead to more problems. And again, Europe is not America. So you cannot think the same way. To force your values on Europeans is as bad as what you claim to be fighting against.


Absolutely, we should not "force" our "values", but again, I would ask, when should the very-happy-to-have-no-freedom-of-speech Europeans, ever get it back?

The real question here should be obvious. It's not so much about Americans imposing our values, but quite the other way around. There is a global "value" if you will, that is trending towards the European version of it. I would suggest that it may not be long before America also submits to the boot in this regard.

No doubt, there will be apologists for the eradication of this essential freedom, when it finally arrives in America. No doubt, we shall be treated to history lessons, that somehow help us better "accept" why it should be so. But make no mistake, a basic human freedom such as this, can not be legislated away. It will still be with us, regardless of history, or who is in charge at that particular moment of time.

I don't honestly think you can have your cake, and eat it too on this one. You speak as though that might be the case, but perhaps you are paying a bit of lip-service, no disrespect intended. You say...



Thought is free, yea. But how you use it counts. If you use it to build agenda and deceive, it is a crime of deception and conspiracy and lies.

After all. Would you not say that the thought of enslaving the world within the minds of government leaders is a crime?

Now you can't and should not arrest anyone on this. But once you speak your mind for the pure purpose of stirring anger and violence, maybe you should be prosecuted if it's lies.


I'm not sure many would speak their minds to purely stir up violence, but what if they did? Would it always be a crime? When the blacks in America a generation ago, raised their voice, yes, IN ANGER, yes, with the intention of "stirring" things up (to the point that the military was called in to get them back under control), should there have been laws in place to send them to jail?

It's quite clear that laws such as "hate crime" laws (an issue you brought up), are dangerous. They are dangerous precisely because those in power, who are certainly not always just, and moral, can use these laws to perpetuate injustice. And "if" they can use them in that way, I would humbly suggest that they eventually will. (Actually they have already, but I don't want to go down that trail right now.)



if you are using your minds to stir hate based on lies and distorted truths, then you really are no better then When Obama goes on stage and promises transparency and lies, or Bush declaring the war over, and we still fight it.


Fine, but soon you will need a body of wise men to tell us all about what "truth" is "distorted", or not. We will need someone to tell us what is "approved", or not. Would those appointed to such a lofty position be likely to ever figure out anything about something like "truth"? Pontius Pilate said it, "What is truth...?" There is a whole lot to that very Roman statement, but it may go beyond the obvious I suppose.

Yes, some thoughts may be a "crime" as you say. But even though you say that people shouldn't be arrested for it, you do in fact contradict yourself (read your words again, perhaps I misconstrued them).

You simply can not have your cake and eat it too.

JR



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 12:04 PM
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reply to post by JR MacBeth
 


Not saying I approve of it to be used. Just saying. Fascism, Communism. These are ideal systems that are incompatible with human nature.

Should Europeans get their freedom back? Always. What I am saying is their actions are an understandable one from a reasonable position.

America is it's own thing. It will never be like Europe because whenever America tries to be one thing it instantly breaks to pieces of a bazilion other things.

The blacks did not stir up anger and violence. People like MLK stirred up peace. Showing nothing but peace in the face of violence. Its why they made a difference. They were the best of humanity and their enemies were the worst. Who could say they were wrong?

And we already have several dozens bodies of "wise men" who decide what is BS or not. peer review, scientific articles. Research articles. Etc etc. To say something without any credible sources from such places IS effectively personal opinion and not really doing anything but furthering a personal agenda.

I am a walking contradiction sometimes, I'll admit it. I model myself based off Thomas Jefferson. I have identifies these forces as the actual and the desired. Desirably, the world would have a single leader that would have under him continental congresses with their own constitutions and the president would simply run the army and ensure peace and be the spearhead for righteousness, with the judiciary there to check stuff out. Actually, this one leader would become a dictator and abuse his power, the continental congresses would hate each other and fight, and the courts would get lazy, and the whole system would come crashing down.

So yea, you did misuse my words a little. But It's ok. At least you're not creating straw man fallacies every second like Crimson_King.

Pretty much, I act like Thomas Jefferson a lot.



But back to Oliver Stone. Again, his main issue is he just said something. What is his proof? Where are his peer review with research papers? How do the Jews control the media when the highest rated actors are almost always against Israel?



[edit on 29-7-2010 by Gorman91]



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 01:20 PM
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It seams to me that what you are really debating is how many were killed and the gassing and burning capabilities, right? You really can't say the camps did not exist and people were not inprisonded in them because there is to much proof that the did exist parts of some and all of some of the camps still stand, you can't stand in Auschwitz-Birkenau and say it does not exist, it is still there. You also can't say people were not imprisoned in the camps because there is proof of that to through the countless memoriors of surviors and there captors. So if those facts are undeniable than that leaves you the death toll to debate, which means you are really not denying the holocaust happened just its affect.

wbye

[edit on 2970710 by Worldbehindyoureyes]



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 03:40 PM
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reply to post by Worldbehindyoureyes
 


Well yea.

But that's double thought and they do not even know about it.



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by Gorman91

And we already have several dozens bodies of "wise men" who decide what is BS or not. peer review, scientific articles. Research articles. Etc etc. To say something without any credible sources from such places IS effectively personal opinion and not really doing anything but furthering a personal agenda.



^^

totalitarianism

one viewpoint only, right? the issue is that science or not, without discourse there will be no progress. worse yet, people who don't talk will think differently, for one they will always have to add an abstraction layer before saying anything, which takes effort. the result is a silent (dead) society.


what all these systems really do is judging people based on societal standing rather than subject matter, which is incestuous and therefore destructive. if you truly believe this system is good, wait a couple more years and see what it does - your previous visions of doom might as well come true then, but i'd like you to know why:

everyone was happily using the wrong concepts, namely those of their (natural?) enemies, because all those- isms are only cool for a few psychs. when will people finally learn that the 'wise men' of 1900 were ardent eugenicists and todays' likely won't be better. i mean if you haven't learned, why should they? worked for them right? they just have to shift their jobs abroad when it's all over, even in defeat, if WW2 was any indication.



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 05:28 PM
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reply to post by Long Lance
 


No. They judge people on the validity of their claims from a wide diverse spectrum of members of the global scientific community.

If it's totalitarianism, so be it. I could not care less. It keeps BS out and clear concise proven science in. Hell. I'd favor that society over the flaming pile of crap America is becoming.


[edit on 29-7-2010 by Gorman91]



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 08:10 PM
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Originally posted by DerekJR321
Well... a day later and wouldn't you know it... Stone is being blasted in the media. So umm... doesn't that just go to show that he is right???

It's getting crazy that anytime you so much as question Israel or something to do with Jews you are chastised and basically run out of town. What are they so afraid of?



Speaking of being run out of town, how about this elderly couple who have been in their home since 1936 being run out by Israelis:
www.guardian.co.uk...
If the Jews controlled the media like Oliver Stone suggests, do you think they would let this come out in print?


[edit on 7/29/2010 by Jim Scott]



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 08:40 PM
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reply to post by Jim Scott
 


That's a strawman fallacy if I ever did see one.

What's happening in Palestine has nothing to do with Oliver Stone's dilemma nor the US media. Israel is acting like Nazi Germany. We all understand this. But the Media is not taking any sides. They are not even talking about it. Know why? Oil spills, global warming, bankruptcy, Obama, and the war in Afghanistan are all US issues that take precedence over Israel.

Israel IS a US colony. It always has been. This BS that Israel controls the US is just that. BS. Israel Is To America As Londinium and Italica are to Rome. Places built modeled after the controller state. Immediately they introduce a war and win. Then they don't completely invade. They let the enemy feel transgressed upon and let them come to them. Then they are just killed repeatedly until all they know is defeat. Eventually they succumb, adopt the ways of their enemies, and merge with them. Egypt and Iraq are already buying US military equipment and Pakistan is slowly following suit, with pretty much everyone else except Iran and Syria following along. We already see westernized cities like in the UAE. It's an old strategy.

But back to what you were saying. Many times it has been posted of numerous famous Hollywood stars hating on Israel. No one does anything about it. So yea, it's a flawed statement that the Jews control the media when 50/50 of them hate Israel.



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 09:43 PM
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I'm in favour of a realistic approach to the study of the Nazis. There is considerable utility in getting their story right. Mainly because their story hasn't ended. It would be good to have an accurate idea of what it is that is playing an important part in shaping our world today.

Given it's already established performance parameters, is it really the sort of movement and philosophy that we want shaping our lives now, even if it is the "new and improved, vitamin enriched" formula that is being pushed at us?

Anybody check recently how things are going in the US? Are things alright down there? Eight years of fascism under Bush. Everything OK? How about the continuity of government president? He doing alright?



posted on Jul, 29 2010 @ 10:00 PM
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You know you live in a dysfunctional society when....

A subject like this gets 475+ replies !!!

Am I ever glad I don't watch TV

Cheers - Dave




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