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Oliver Stone: Jewish control of the media is preventing free Holocaust debate

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posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 11:51 AM
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reply to post by EnkiCarbone
 


If all you're after is the truth, I wish you Godspeed and good hunting.

I would just remind you, as a fellow searcher, that not all sources are to be trusted. ...and that includes some of the eyewitness testimony that so many of us, myself included, find so compelling.

I meant to cast no aspersions at you personally. If I offended, I apologize.




posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 12:10 PM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Danbones
 


That's nice of you and all but as I recall you pretty much dismissed my sources, kept your precious own and built a shell for your ignorant lifestyle. So yea, enjoy.


I did examine your references Gorman...
they don't IMHO stack up to these sources.
I also examined the French ministry's documents showing the original plans for some of these camps which show the supposed gas chambers as having been added AFTER the war.

I also examined the chemical analysis of the supposed gas chambers and did the math on the amount of bodies processed.
I worked in a Canadian legion tending bar and so have heard Hours and Hours of first hand accounts from the liberators of huge swaths of Europe.

I examined the ground penetrating radar analysis of supposed burial ground where they showed undisturbed soil...

as i said:
"the truth is no defense"
is an OFFICIAL statement from the prosecution at a secret trial of some one who questioned the HOLO MYTH

Please see my post regarding the topic in the OP
Oliver Stone apologized due tho the pressure stifling debate...

And while we waste time on this subject
Atrocities are being committed of which there is no doubt, and bills are being past which are a fatal screw into the coffin of the last bastion of the freedom of man..by the very same bunch that are stifling the debate which is why they are stifling the debate



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by Danbones
 


FYI, the source of the gas chamber is from a racist authoring group that makes such statements about immigrants such as:

They don't like immagrants...


these people have a reputation for being fairly incompetent in work, being aggressive, and often being hostile.


They support some sort of French people being better than forigners. IE, Imperialistic nationalism



surprised to find that employers tend not to recruit them, in preference to people of French descent


The author is simply a neo con more more radical than Dick Cheney.

www.economist.com...
www.highbeam.com...
www.ina.fr... tml
www.ejpress.org...

So yea. You call them a reliable source.... why? Why is this man reliable? I'd really like to know.

And most of the other stuff you claimed is just your opinion.

So thus far, no reliable sources, pure opinion, and obviously biased.

Thanks, but you are obviously not objective in this discussion.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 12:28 PM
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I don't know if this has been posted already. I didn't go through the 22 pages. But to the people who believe the "official story", can you please answer these questions? I am asking them in a respectful manner.

1.)Why were prisoners issued 'Lagergeld' to buy food, cigarettes, hookers!!??

2.) Why were they afforded swimming pools at the camps?

3.) Why was Himmler ordered to "reduce deaths at all costs" at the camps?

4.) What kind of technology did the German's poses that would make it possible for them to burn thousands of bodies to ash a day, and yet it takes modern facilities an entire 8 hours to fully reduce a single human body to ash?

5.) Why are there no orders, blueprints, photos of use or any other evidence that the Germans ordered the construction or use of "gas chambers" for anything other than delousing.

6.) Why would they use Zyclon-B to kill the prisoners when Zyclon-B does not immediately turn gaseous when released into air?

7.) How could a reported 3-4 million people be cremated in ovens when the total count of 'ovens' only equaled 52 total?

8.) Why is there such animosity towards anyone who questions the 'holocaust'?

9.) How much money is generated annual by Holocaust museums, lectures, films, documentaries, etc?



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by DerekJR321
 


1.) Germans actually were known for their hospitality. It was really only the SS leaders and the upper party members that were racists. Most of Europe's governments were racists. Their people is kind of shoot miss. You'd be surprised how fast a racist stops being a racist once a child dies in front of them of the race they hate. I mean, they gave an ally pilot a medal because he fell several thousand feet without a parashoot and survived. There's no reason why compassionate soldiers would not help Jews they liked.

2.) srebrenica-genocide.blogspot.com...

3.) I'd need a source for that. But best guess would be because the Red Cross or some allied group was visiting. They did fix up the place for that.

4.) Mathematically, you could kill roughly 2160 a day. And over 700,000 a year by gas chamber alone. 30 people die in about 20 minutes by gas and that means 90 people an hour. 90X24 =2160. That's with just one gas chamber.

5.) Common lie.
www.holocaust-history.org...

6.) It's cyanide. it kills very very fast. And it does not take long to turn to gas

www.holocaust-history.org...

www.nizkor.org.../auschwitz//cyanide/cyanide.002

7.) I'd need a source, again. Also not many were cremated alive. Many were gased. It costs less and is faster and Germany was having energy problems so they did not want to wast it.

8.) Because Europe had 2 world wars and a Soviet-US occupation for 40 years within one century. That made them desperate to prevent anything from happening again. That's also why the EU formed.

9.) Probably just as much as any museum. Considering that there's a lot more other kinds of museum, probably a decent percentage, but not most. Maybe 20%?

[edit on 28-7-2010 by Gorman91]

[edit on 28-7-2010 by Gorman91]

[edit on 28-7-2010 by Gorman91]



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 01:03 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


In regards to question #3.

Himmler had ordered the death toll reduced in all camps because the Nazi's needed the people healthy. The camps were a huge contributing factor in their war production effort. Why kill off the people who are helping in production?

Quote from: www.adelaideinstitute.org... ury_09.htm


On October 26, 1943, Senior Group Leader Oswald Pohl -- reporting directly to Himmler, and head of the entire camp system -- wrote a secret letter to all camp commandants. It was recapped by Danuta Czech in her book, Auschwitz Chronicle (1990). The letter is rather shocking, in that Pohl admonishes the commandants for the high death rates in the camps. Ther is an urgent need for labor, and thus all camps are ordered to take necessary actions to reduce deaths, and improve inmate health.


There are more references to Himmler's orders on the web. Unfortunately I am at work and I am limited to what I can access.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by DerekJR321
 


Well then. You answered your own question. Slave labor can't work if its dead. Some Jews were enslaved like at the V2 missile testing sites, others were exterminated. The Germans were heavily Eugenics approving. There's no reason why they would not save the strongest Jews to work for them so that the German people could fight. Makes sense.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


reply to post by Gorman91
 

I notice you aren't quoting the French ministry of Antiquities that has the plans..
The sources you reference have nothing to do with what I just said...
and the statements you mention are off topic
YOU HAVE NOT ONCE DISPROVED THE FACTS...

chemistry is chemistry
math is math
plans are plans
and I'll stick with the Jewish sources
I have quoted earlier on the thread which you haven't disputed at all
I'm just agreeing with THEM...
what you quoted is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

this thread is
NOT ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST
IT IS ABOUT OLIVER STONE CLAIMING THE DEBATE IS BEING STIFFLED
WHICH HE JUST PROVED IT IS..

simple.






[edit on 28-7-2010 by Danbones]



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


Yes but the problem there is that they weren't killed. According to Nuremberg Trial Doc (evidence code No-20a, which is unfortunately not digitized yet but can be found here) says basically that:



NO-- 21(a)(b), a report from Oswald Pohl to Himmler, dated April 5 and May 9, 1944: these outline the security measures at Auschwitz -- Pohl reports that there are three camps; Auschwitz I has 16,000 prisoners, Auschwitz II has 15,000 male and 21,000 female prisoners, of which 15,000 are unfit for work (then why were they not, in accord with the standard version, cast into the "gas chambers"?) There are 15,000 more prisoners in the fourteen Außenlager (satellite camps) comprising Auschwitz III. Pohl states that there are 2,300 SS guards (Wachpersonal) for camps I and II.


If what we are to believe is true, then all "unfit" prisoners would have been immediately exterminated.

In respect again to the "ovens", it has been documented that the power available to them was 'lacking' for the ability to cremate over 2000 people a day (of which my math comes out to more like 168 bodies per day).




"Diese Inbetriebsetzung [des Krematoriums II ab 15.2.1943] kann sich jedoch nur auf beschränkten Gebrauch der vorhandenen Maschinen erstrecken (wobei eine Verbrennung mit gleichzeitiger Sonderbehandlung möglich gemacht wird), da die zum Krematorium führende Zuleitung für dessen Leistungsverbrauch zu schwach ist."


Which translates to basically, the power lines leading into the crematorium were not strong enough for the energy they consumed (regular fire does not burn bodies to ash unless left burning for days). The problem was they didn't have enough cable to boost power to the "ovens". However, they were not a top priority and Germany was not about to hand over copper for the project. Germany was under a very strict raw materials rationing system. Basically all materials went to the U-Boat and V-Weapons programs.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 02:02 PM
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Interresting thread.

The main question is however:

Why are there laws who forbid any doubt if it is a fact ?

And not only the Germans were against them, even before WW1 there were restaurants forbidden for them in Paris.
One of the baltic states was in WW2 made 'judenfrei' even before the Germans got there.

And what did Churchill wrote?
www.independent.co.uk...

There is more, but we need to study history deeper to understand today.

The question nobody askes in regard of this thread:
Why did mr. Stone said it in the first place? what drove him ? motivated him ?
(that he took it back is easier, pressure from..)



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by SLAYER69
reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Yup he is all over the news as of late.
Let's see, he makes a war movie. "Platoon" makes millions of dollars then poo poos another War movie "Pearl Harbor" as glorifying war.

Can anybody say hypocrite?


Eh.... And Platoon glorifies war does it?
I think you should see the movie again....
You, with your avatar, on the other hand seem to glorify war...



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 02:20 PM
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Gorman:
Do I believe there was a holocaust?
yes I do:

"If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel."
- David Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth's Ben-Gurioni).

there is your Holocaust.
Right from one of the men who committed it.
A holocaust on children no less.
Jewish children
is this what you defend?
That the world should sacrifice
its free speech
its blood
its money
it's freedom
in penance for something the Zionist leaders of Israel did to the Jews...
In order to steal the land for an empire?

this is why they throw people in to jail for debating the holocaust ..
Because the truth is so horrendous that if all the people knew what it was the Palistinians would have every sane person in the world pick up their cause...

that is Stones point...and the reason for the topic of this thread
The Zionists would sacrifice half the Jewish babies to create Israel?

my god man
what have you people done?







[edit on 28-7-2010 by Danbones]



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by Danbones
 


I searched French ministry of Antiquities. I got no official government website. So how do I know you are telling the truth?

And sorry, again, most of the crap you post is not reliable sources. The only reference to gas chambers was by that racist man. Now remember, Google searches the whole internet. So again, where are your official sources?

You want to know why the debate is being stifled? Because no on wants to debate with crack science posters like you. There's no point. It's like debating a creationist. Their right because God says so. You're right because your flawed sources say so. I can compare this very easily. The fact that no denier has actually won in an official scientific discussions in this matter is for the same reason no creationist has never won in such scientific circles. Because you have nothing to back you with.

No one gives a damn about Zionism because Zionism ended in 1949 with the creation of Israel. What you are talking about now is regular old nationalism. And yes, nationals would kill babies to keep their nation afloat. That's exactly what Israel is doing now, that's what Hitler did years ago, and hell, that's what the US did to the Indians, what the Europeans did to the Africans, what the Romans did to the Gauls, what the Persians and Greeks did to each other, going back long before Jews even existed. That's what Humans did to Neanderthals.

None of which has anything to do with the official numbers of the holocaust.

[edit on 28-7-2010 by Gorman91]

reply to post by DerekJR321
 


What you are talking about does not really correlate. Those were the constant numbers. Those numbers were destroyed and always replenished from the 9 million Jews of Europe. There's plenty of proof of gassing from the mountains of bodies and the designs FOR gas chambers. The numbers could not be replenished at above a certain rate because that would more than likely cause a Jewish revolt. It's the same thing In America. If the US government outright became a dictatorship and killed millions of people to secure it, we would revolt. But they are doing it slowly. And so no one really revolts. It's an old strategy. There was Jewish resistance against what was done. But most of them were conservative families unconcerned until they were there killing them. That's the origins of that old quote "when the x came for the y I did nothing".

[edit on 28-7-2010 by Gorman91]



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 03:38 PM
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www.youtube.com...

skip to about 6 min, and you'll see all the hard evidence you ll ever need that killing operations were well underway and they got rid of all the evidence before the inspector could arrive...



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by Crimson_King




and let's see from your selective memory this even did not existed..did it?





Now that's history right there!
Wow, how did you find those?

Thanks dude



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 07:27 PM
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I'm amazed that Stone is doing this movie, but I'm glad he is and I hope it gets the job done. The job being, as Jim Marrs indicates in his book, "The Rise of the Fourth Reich" to point out to people, not that a Jewish cabal controls the media but that the Nazis are still with us. And I don't mean skinheads. We are living in an evolving fascist/corporatist state if we live anywhere in the industrialized west.

The same institutions/corporations that brought you Nazisim in the first place are bringing it back to you in a new and improved format.

The great cartoonist, Gahan Wilson was decades ahead of the curve when he drew fascist uniformed "smiley faced" stormtroopers stomping on people. This is the era of "smiley faced" fascism. George W. Bush was a smiley faced fascist.

The green movement has become smiley faced fascism. The no smoking movement is smiley faced fascism. The intrusive nanny state interference in people's personal lives is smiley faced fascism.

It is all done "for your own good" and to get you used to having your daily lives controlled by the state.

Stamp Out Smiley Faced Fascism!

PS: I'm not against keeping the planet as clean as we can or against non smokers. I am against burying the citizens of the planet under a mountain of legal ordinances that govern their personal decisions.

I would rather see billions spent and millions of jobs created in the "keep it clean or clean it up" industry than the same amount of money going into the police and military.


[edit on 28-7-2010 by ipsedixit]



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 08:33 PM
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Why did Stone apologize for his remarks? He seemed so convinced of what he originally said.




Stone quickly backed off. "In trying to make a broader historical point about the range of atrocities the Germans committed against many people, I made a clumsy association about the Holocaust, for which I am sorry and I regret," he said in a statement, reported by the Los Angeles Times and the Minneapolis Star Tribune. "Jews obviously do not control media or any other industry. The fact that the Holocaust is still a very important, vivid and current matter today is, in fact, a great credit to the very hard work of a broad coalition of people committed to the remembrance of this atrocity -- and it was an atrocity."


www.politicsdaily.com...



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 09:01 PM
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reply to post by ModernAcademia
 


Yea it.s great. But it has nothing to do with the number of Jews killed in the Holocaust. And more importantly, half of it is lies.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 09:08 PM
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reply to post by jam321
 




Why did Stone apologize for his remarks? He seemed so convinced of what he originally said


Do you know how powerful the Zionist lobby is?

You have no idea what the media can do to you?

This man can be turned in to an anti-Semite, in to a Jew hater, in to a Nazi love, and therefore loose everything.

Forget about defame, he could also loose his riches, and loose his life.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 09:15 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


But all of these peoples have not. Most of them are doing very well.

www.liveleak.com...




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