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Oliver Stone: Jewish control of the media is preventing free Holocaust debate

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posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 12:51 AM
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reply to post by Deeds203
 


Ezekiel 30s. The religious types interpret it as justification. When in fact it is actually talking about the coming of Jesus. They interpret it as the fact that they must defend God's command. When his command was to bring all the children of Abraham together and God would sweep across the hills and become one with Man's heart. So while these passages talk about the conversion of man to follow Christ, many ill informed leaders think it means that Israel is eternal.

Also, Iran is a joke of a military power. I am amazed we have permitted them to live this long. I have no fraking idea why we have not attacked them. Not occupy. Occupation would be retarded. I mean attacking their sites. We are a full 50 years ahead of them technologically.

And in the end, Israel is a US colony. It's the same strategy Rome did in Spain and England.

[edit on 28-7-2010 by Gorman91]




posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 02:20 AM
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I cannot understand this denial trend. My grandfather told me what he witnessed when his unit liberated a concentration camp. They found at least 20,000 bodies worth of remains in the 2 days his unit was there. They found 80 jews in the camp alive, half of them died within 48 hours.

Those images haunted him till the day he died. Images of my military time will haunt me till I die. Denying something so horrible is an open door for a repeat.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 03:48 AM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by ~Lucidity
 


6 million did die, as well as many others. More importantly was the ever more killed by Stalin who got away with it.


Please lay off the 6 million hoax. It has been debunked before on ATS. More importantly the 6 million figure was "invented" even before WWII as the below article proves.



Even the original Red Cross documents says the total number deaths of prisoners were around around 271,500 approx nowhere near the imaginary figures of millions.


[edit on 28-7-2010 by Crimson_King]



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 03:57 AM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by patmac
 


That would be the large smoking chimneys with the smell of human flesh coming out.... yea silly pants. They existed.


Chimney's you say huh lol! What chimney's oh are those the imaginary ones of which no proof has ever been submitted except random accounts from holohoax so called victims?





and let's see from your selective memory this even did not existed..did it?



[edit on 28-7-2010 by Crimson_King]



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 05:08 AM
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Originally posted by NichirasuKenshin
If you come up with a reasonable, scholarly argument based on sources that there were only 4 million jews killed by the Nazis then you won't be prosecuted. If all you do is claim that the Holocaust is a hoax, then you will be prosectued.


Please do let this author know what you claim is to be true, I don't think he will agree with you.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 05:40 AM
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Originally posted by NichirasuKenshin
You say that writing a scholarly opinion about the real number will get you in jail if you don't write 6 million? Then please provide me with a case.


I provided one case above I will provide you of more cases, do a search for them:
1. Ernest Zundel
2. Sylvia Stolz
3. Dr. Fred Toben
4. Wolfgang Frohlich
You can start with these, I hope they are enough to occupy you for sometime.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by Crimson_King
 


That's nice about the newspaper. But as we've already discussed, that does not say they died and its a totally unrelated issues. So nice try, but that is known as a strawman fallacy. And is an opinion, not a fact. In the same way that the government claiming millions of people could die from the Avian flue, and millions in Africa die from Ebola, the fact that the numbers are the same has no correlation to if it is factual or not compared to the opinion.

And don't bother with the Red cross. The Germans lied to the Red cross in everything. Do you honestly expect a nation already lieing on hundreds of issues to not lie to the red cross?

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...

Asking the Red Cross to say correct numbers is as good as expecting the government to truthfully talk about the BP oil workers getting sick.

People lie. People lie a lot. And When money is involved, people lie almost always.


Oh yea. These Chimneys.
www.holocaust-history.org...
Kthanxbye. You failed.



Also, what you're saying is that boycotters should be put in concentration camps? Well then I'm sure you support the so-called Fema camps? After all, that's basically what your saying. A boycott is justification to be thrown into a camp.

By all means, if I lived back there, I would be with the boycott. I would join them. And if I got thrown to a camp for it, so be it.

BTW, great job not using nay sources. It's a pretty good steaming pile of s**t you constructed.

[edit on 28-7-2010 by Gorman91]

[edit on 28-7-2010 by Gorman91]



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 10:14 AM
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Dear Crimson King
if you insist on bringing a gun to a knife fight
you will convince discerning readers every time.
what is the sport in that?

In the future
Please contain yourself to the use of invective, factoids, and opinion only,
as doing otherwise will eventually cause the other side to quit in disgust and go home.
This will serve to stifle the debate which is exactly what Oliver Stone is complaining about.
As Pierre Blais the ex attourny General said at Zundle's tribunal:
"the truth is no defence"

oooops my bad
the opposition doesn't appear to do proof.
Carry on.

[edit on 28-7-2010 by Danbones]



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 10:20 AM
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reply to post by Danbones
 


That's nice of you and all but as I recall you pretty much dismissed my sources, kept your precious own and built a shell for your ignorant lifestyle. So yea, enjoy.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Danbones
 


That's nice of you and all but as I recall you pretty much dismissed my sources, kept your precious own and built a shell for your ignorant lifestyle. So yea, enjoy.


Looking at it proactively / objectively in a quest to understand the truth, when the "historical facts" we're given don't seem to make a whole lot of sense isn't much of a "shell". It's human nature to be curious... especially when something doesn't seem right.

You have it, folks. Seeking to uncover truth is an ignorant lifestyle.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 10:50 AM
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reply to post by EnkiCarbone
 


That's true for issues in which there are not millions of witnesses. When a thing has millions of witnesses, it is as it seems. And before someone says 9/11, that was not millions of people dieing, that was a physics issue that many still discuss. People and genocide is not physics and plane fuel.

So yea. Nice Strawman fallacy, but no, fail.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 11:09 AM
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reply to post by Gorman91
 


Oh I understand. The quest for truth only applies to things you want it applied to. Makes sense. Do you want us to get a Gin and Tonic for you while you tell us what other tidbits we should be ignoring? After all, you're awfully important, and only your understanding of the holocaust, and your views on it could possibly be the right one.

I find it interesting how people looking for answers are coming up with some pretty good results, numbers not matching up. Physical evidence. All this concrete scientific and historical evidence... to support an investigation into the actual numbers, try to get down to brass tacks.

All I see from the opposition is - RAAAAHR ANTISEMITE BAWWWWW! MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF (I just pulled this out of my rectal abyss) CLAIMS.

As they say, the proof is in the pudding. Why are people so afraid to let people sample the pudding and see what comes of it?

I would think if the number were 6,000,000, then people that believe in the given holocaust story would welcome an investigation to put it to rest, then they could be "right". Why are they making it illegal to vindicate and validate their own story?


You can say "FAIL" all you want in every post. It gives you all the credibility of a 14 year old 4-Chan user. That's a real solid platform you're standing on.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 11:13 AM
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reply to post by EnkiCarbone
 


Ok then, I'll reduce it down the most simplest terms.



OBVIOUS DESTRUCTION OF LIFE FROM OBVIOUS SOURCE



OBVIOUS DESTRUCTION OF LIFE FROM NON-OBVIOUS SOURCE



I hope that simplified it down to a comprehensible level for you.


This is not selective truth. This is questioning basic obvious facts and really for no point. It's like starting a conspiracy that the sky is not blue. Look up. It's blue. Maybe there's a cloud. OK. It's still blue.

So yea, call it selective. I could not care less. But if you're going to question the sky being blue, expect massive amounts of people showing you pictures of a blue sky.

[edit on 28-7-2010 by Gorman91]



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 11:15 AM
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**** WARNING ****

Any further posts containing snide, uncivil and down right rude comments towards members will earn a 3 day posting ban.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 11:27 AM
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reply to post by EnkiCarbone
 


The search for truth is a wonderful thing...

...and so very many of these "deniers" claim that is, indeed, what they are doing...

Exposing the truth. The truth, in their eyes, being that the evil jews are behind everything bad in the world. Or words to that effect. Which, in and of itself, though distasteful in the extreme, isn't completely a bad thing. However, you are not supposed to make up the truth as you go along.

The truth is supposed to present itself, in all its majesty, as you go along.

I would suggest that you research a bit into the backgrounds of these folks who deny the horrors of the Holocaust, or see a Jewish conspirecy behind every event in the world...

Six million. Ten million. Four million. One hundred thousand. Ten. It doesn't matter the numbers, the fact that a group of people set out to murder an entire group of people remains incontrovertible. Actually, it was groups of people, but since we're discussing the Jewish people, we'll leave the others out, I'll just say that there were many thousands, possibly millions of non Jews murdered as well. Never forget that.

Deniers, in their yearning to overturn the verdict of history, often have an agenda of their own... Aside from the blatant hatred of Jews, I mean. Mostly it's an attempt to rehabilitate the Nazi regime. ...and in order to do that, one must curtail, or make mockery of, a horrific episode in history.

After all, the Turks slaughtered many thousands of folks. Ruwanda. North America. South America. ...and on and on and on. So the Nazis, in the face of history, come off as nothing special, save in the numbers murdered...

Take a look at the agenda behind the "research"...



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 11:32 AM
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Originally posted by Gorman91
This is not selective truth. This is questioning basic obvious facts and really for no point. It's like starting a conspiracy that the sky is not blue. Look up. It's blue. Maybe there's a cloud. OK. It's still blue.

So yea, call it selective. I could not care less. But if you're going to question the sky being blue, expect massive amounts of people showing you pictures of a blue sky.
[edit on 28-7-2010 by Gorman91]





Any questions?



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by EnkiCarbone
 


Sunlight affects the sky. dur!

jeez. Like the above said. Take a look at the agenda behind your research. Obviously the sky is blue. If you cannot comprehend that sunlight affects that at different angels, how can anyone trust you to know more important issues? overwhelmingly the sky is blue. It is even blue at night because moon light does the same. Even without the moon there is the faintest dark blue. It's like shining red light at a blue object. Yea it changes color. But it is still blue.

But now you are derailing the thread. So are you going to try and prove the sky is not blue or the holocaust is a lie?

[edit on 28-7-2010 by Gorman91]



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by seagull
Six million. Ten million. Four million. One hundred thousand. Ten. It doesn't matter the numbers, the fact that a group of people set out to murder an entire group of people remains incontrovertible. Actually, it was groups of people, but since we're discussing the Jewish people, we'll leave the others out, I'll just say that there were many thousands, possibly millions of non Jews murdered as well. Never forget that.

Deniers, in their yearning to overturn the verdict of history, often have an agenda of their own... Aside from the blatant hatred of Jews, I mean. Mostly it's an attempt to rehabilitate the Nazi regime. ...and in order to do that, one must curtail, or make mockery of, a horrific episode in history.

After all, the Turks slaughtered many thousands of folks. Ruwanda. North America. South America. ...and on and on and on. So the Nazis, in the face of history, come off as nothing special, save in the numbers murdered...

Take a look at the agenda behind the "research"...


I agree with you wholeheartedly. Any attempt at genocide, no matter what the numbers, is an atrocity. I am particularly interested in the method by which the data has become skewed through the past several decades. This isn't about conspiracy, so much as it is about the truth (and this is what I've said earlier in this thread as well).

I honestly don't care about anyone's "agenda". Not the "deniers", or whatever you call them (just that word implies anyone seeking the facts of the matter is Hitler himself). I don't care about the "agenda" of the Megaphone Jews that fiddle out "anti-semite" from the rooftops. These "agendas" are laughable and insignificant when compared to the powers of the burning flame of truth. Why is it so hard to see my stance on this?

I don't understand what the hangup is here. Get an impartial scientific committee to look at the issue, dig for facts, give us the evidence and call it a day. It's the "agendas" that are really the problem.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 11:48 AM
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reply to post by Ragnarok691
 


Why? Because there is an agenda behind it. Not just the hatred of the Jewish people, but the attempt, more subtle perhaps, to rehabilitate the Nazi ethos. When reading, or if you're truely unfortunate, listening to a deniers riff, remember to look at the man behind the curtain. Most of the organizations that pay for this faux research are just shadow puppets of identicle groups with a fancy name that attempt to cover up their true nature...

It's an almost incestuous relationship between these groups.

If you want to learn more about these groups, and the agenda...? I'd recommend any of the books by Deborah Lipstadh (I hope I'm remembering her name correctly...). She is one of the foremost experts on Holocaust Deniers and their creepy little agenda.



posted on Jul, 28 2010 @ 11:48 AM
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reply to post by EnkiCarbone
 


This has been done several times in the last 60 years and every time people deny it. It gets to the point of why bother scientifically if people will just go and believe what they want regardless? It's why the creationist-evolution debate died in America because people just won't bother. So again, why bother doing what has been done enumerable times if no one will listen? Funds can be used more usefully elsewhere then making yet another scientific article dismissing the claims and just having it thrown away again.




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