Oliver Stone: Jewish control of the media is preventing free Holocaust debate

Originally posted by SpectreDC


There seems to be a meme within certain zionist authorities to point out that "6 million jews are gone".

I actually remember this from a thread long before I was a member when I was still lurking. The holocaust isn't the only time that there were claims that 6 million jews died.

you are remembering something about The First Holocaust by Heddesheimer, i presume.


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one word of caution, though, if celebs are involved in such cases i'd expect it to be planted to fulfill a certain goal, in this case radicalisation or whatever. it's brewing, but it appears to be orchestrated, otherwise i would be unable to even link such material. i've seen stuff vanish before, this particular text (and many others) is imo endorsed by the ptb as well, for whatever reason. just keep that in the back of your mind.

the hair was shaved for the same reason zyklon was sprayed on the prisoners....Typhus spread by lice

Originally posted by NichirasuKenshin

Originally posted by christianpatrick


That is not a silly straw man argument. That is the truth. In Germany, if you say that only four million jews were killed, you are guilty of the crime of making less harmful (verharmlosung) national socialism and you are also guilty of insulting the memory of the dead. I'm a (former) german. I lived there. I know what I can get away with saying and what not.

Yes it is. I have lived in Germany. And I am currently residing in a country that has the same laws.

If you come up with a reasonable, scholarly argument based on sources that there were only 4 million jews killed by the Nazis then you won't be prosecuted. If all you do is claim that the Holocaust is a hoax, then you will be prosectued.

That's simply how it is. There's been enough scholarly research coming out of Germany that questions the 6 million number. As long as it is not done in a hateful-revionist way then you won't get any problems. Making blanket statements about the Holocaust being a hoax will get you in trouble though.

Nowhere in the German law does it say that it was exactly 6 million and that mentioning any other number is considered denial. It's all about context.

If that isn't the case... Why don't you present me with even one case of a scholar who wrote a source-based revision of the 6 million number and got trouble for it? I bet you can't since there never was. This law is only used against the more ridiculous, blanket-denial of the holocaust... Claiming anything else is disingenious.

[edit on 27-7-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]

And again, it is as I said. Don't tell a(n ex-) kraut how things are in his own (former) country.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Frontkjemper

 

It's the same reason why it's taboo to talk about Native Americans in the US. You killed them off. It's like a rapist having a casual conversation with his victim a day afterwards. It just is not right.



[edit on 27-7-2010 by Gorman91]

Good point. However, let's say I made a movie about the Native Americans, spinning it so that there were hardly any of them, and they all died of starvation when the huge herds of buffalo that were their perpetual food supply, provided by God, died off because of a disease. It would probably just get laughed off as idioticI don't think I would get put in jail, like in Europe, or torn apart savagely in the press, like in the US, for those who question the story about the poor, picked on Pharisees who are just always victims for no reason.

Everyone's been always picking on them, starting in their own official Book that was dictated to one of their boys by God himself, and so is obviously the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. They didn't do anything, they were just sitting there and everyone in the world has been "attacking" them for thousands of years while they are perpetually "defending themselves".

So let's see what happens to Mr. Stone for this....

[edit on 27-7-2010 by CaptChaos]

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Amagnon

 

That's nice, coming from the one who called the top sex trade nations the good guys and North Korea a good guy. I'm pretty sure your biased in everything you say and there's nothing much logical. I actually do not believe much of anything I'm told and am very skeptical. Took me a whole 5 years of investigation religion before I even decided I wanted one. Took me 7 years of investigating careers before I decided for sure what I wanted to do with my life.

It's funny. It took a Google search and an hour or two of reading to learn that the holocaust did in fact happen and the Jews, Gypsies, Communists and the rest were, in fact, killed by the German war machine.

Chimney's are there. Bones are there. All the proof is there. Millions of witnesses all right there. But now, let you enjoy your ignorance. Enjoy!

An hour or two on google for you to even understand and establish the commonly accepted reality? Good work - no wonder it took you 7 yrs to work out what you wanted to do, and after 5 yrs looking at religion you decided you wanted in .. ? I think you have established your (in)capacity for research and logical thinking flawlessly ..

I think I could use google to establish that whatever pre-determined belief I had was true also - I don't think looking for info to prove yourself right counts as research though.

Also - regarding the 'top sex trade' countries, as I recall it was you who called the destination countries the good guys, and denounced the victims. So nice try with the slander, but it is you who supported the real sex trade nations.

There is a reality out there that is accessible to those who can look and see, it is a world built on total lies - and the holocaust is simply another example.

I just assumed that Mr Stone was Jewish due to his name. Is he of paternal Jewish descent?

reply to post by Amagnon


Yea and like I said, where does the sex trade get prosecuted? Oh right, never in the countries you support. What an interesting coincidence. Because I sure as hell don't see the sources of those slaves doing anything in their governments.

But onto the topic, you're showing your biased right there. You think religion makes you flawed. Everyone's flawed regardless of religion. Like I said, until you can find actual sources to your arguments, you're just spewing crap and hate. I stopped posting sources because everyone was denounced. Fancy that. Anything that threatens your view and you denounce its credibility. I however do not. There's a crap tone of stuff that members of my faith believe that is simple wrong. I'll admit it. There's plenty of holes in history. I'll admit it. You however, like the rest, denounce anything against your world views. I just live with it and change my views when something challenges it. If I'm wrong I'm wrong. I don't defend a dead horse. I let it rot. Plenty of stuff in my life has been proven wrong. I'd accepted it and moved on. I use to love the Republican party. Not anymore after they revealed themselves. Used to live the Catholic church. Now the only reason I'm still catholic is so that if I ever get anywhere in life I can denounce their actions and change them. Let's see you do the same.

reply to post by CaptChaos


Actually you would probably be destroyed in the public life. The press would have a field day tearing your wrongs to pieces. You would be nothing more than meat for the presses.

With the right to free speech comes the right to be socially destroyed for using the free speech to say something retarded. That is freedom. The freedom to go on and do something retarded and get what comes to you. Yea maybe arresting them is over the top. But when you've had 2 world wars and a soviet-US occupation for 30 years, I really would not call that over the line. I'd call that action reaction.

[edit on 27-7-2010 by Gorman91]

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by ModernAcademia

 

Europe hated Jews, Germany tried to ship them off. Couldn't. Killed them instead. Europe did not like Germany off the banks, went to war, discovered holocaust, was sad. Jews got homeland.


End of debate. Stop beating a dead horse.

Not quite. The consequence of the Jewish homeland was at the expense of the Palestinians whose land was stolen. The palestinian problem drives many groups in the middle east to hate the west and thus hello 911, london, nuclear iran etc etc.

reply to post by malcr

Well Palestine and also our establishing bases in the Middle East and also Desert Storm...

reply to post by malcr


Well yea. The whole idea of making the Jews their homeland is so that they would leave Europe and no longer be Europe's problem. That's why their governments were racist. Rather than kill the Jews themselves, they shipped them off to be someone else' problem.

Is there honestly a difference from the Israeli situation and the movie The Island? In there they were clones that were told they survived a disaster and they could go to the island to restart society, when in truth they were just clones that had their organs stripped. Israel was told they survived a disaster, and now there's a place far away for them that is their promised land. You can go there and leave this refugee camp for an Island. It turned out to be worst and essentially an extermination camp. But surprise surprise the Jews survived. Now they are exterminating. Oppressed become the oppressors and history repeats itself. 60 years from now we'll give the Palestinians a homeland and it shall repeat again. We can go back in history and see this all the time happening. And it always is for the same reason. Let someone else exterminate them. The Americans did it with Indian reserves, the English did it with religious break off groups, the Germans did it with the Jews, etc etc.

There is nothing special about the Jewish holocaust. It's just another repeat of history, now being repeated again with the Palestinian holocaust.

Am I noticing here that we haven't really touched on the Jewish control of the media much? That's actually a good chunk of the topic.

Have we pretty much conceded the point? It's a given that they control the media?

reply to post by ~Lucidity


I do not believe it. I see nothing on Israel anymore on the news. Just Obama on Fox and the oil spill or North Korea on MSNBC. If there is a Jewish control of the media, which btw Stone retracted, it certainly is not visible. I see no discussion on Israel at all. And as far as I can care, I don't see it. Half th Jews in Ameirca, especially the famous ones, do not support Israel. So that alone pretty much destroys it.

from some books I have:

"We must expel Arabs and take their places."
-- David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population."
-- David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.

"There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"
-- Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp. 121-122.

"Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population."

-- David Ben Gurion, quoted in The Jewish Paradox, by Nahum Goldmann, Weidenfeld and Nicolson, 1978, p. 99.

"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.

"If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel."
-- David Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth's Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation).

I'm just going to quote zionists from now on.
thats enough to illustrate the truth of things.

note the bit about the arab books whicch no longer exist...like stone was saying about censorship.

and the bit about slaugtering jewish children..there is your Holocaust, and an example of who commited it and who profited by it.

PS the NdN genocide In north america dwarfs any problem the zionists
are whining about
hey what was bernie madoff the embezzler again...?




[edit on 27-7-2010 by Danbones]

[edit on 27-7-2010 by Danbones]

reply to post by Danbones


Well then I might as well interject with Hollywood stars and their opinions to pretty much point out how There is no control in the media by any group.

www.liveleak.com...



[edit on 27-7-2010 by Gorman91]

Oliver Stone works in the entertainment industry and at the higher end of it at that.

If the man has observed that Zionists are in all of the key controlling positions than I'm not prepared to call him crazy, racist, or a liar.
Many others have made similar allegations. They can't all be liars.

I see the regular Zionist kids slinging their usual mud balls on this thread as usual.

From what evidence has trickled out of unbiased holocaust investigations the evidence appears pretty damning in favor of highly over inflated numbers.

Did the Nazis need to be stopped? Yes.
Were the Nazis evil? Yes.

Is the poor Jew crutch over played to some extent? Yes.
Is it possible that the Zionists are lying about Holocaust figures? Yes.


I also have seen the usual attempts at Ad Hominem by the Zionists kids here as well when they try and attack Mr. Stone himself in order to try and discredit his premise. Sorry but you all's tactics are as predicatable as they are a FAIL.

If there is one good thing I've noticed about the internet, it's that it has single handedly usurped the old status quo of controlled media as it used to be. Twenty years ago we would not have even heard his critical complaint.

Gotta at least love the internet for that!

The Holocaust reminds me of the 911 official line. Which is to quickly establish an official version at any cost to credibility or truth and then stonewall all dissent at all costs to credibility or truth.



[edit on 27-7-2010 by warequalsmurder]

reply to post by warequalsmurder


See the video I posted. It's pretty clear Hollywood has a diverse opinion.

I am a history bug [I say bug because I will never clame to be a history buff because it sugests that I know everything there is to know and I know that will never be the case.] WW2 is my area of study, and I have studied many sections of it since I started 6 years ago. The holocaust is just one of the sections but in all the matiral I have looked at from books, internet, and media, [by media I mean documenteries, like the one on Auschwitz-Birkenau I own] and there is far to much proof that the holocaust did happen, Jews were not the only victims by far, but they are the most remembered because of the propaganda directed at them, there was far less propaganda directed at the other groups that were also tageted in the holocaust.This does not mean that they should be forgotten, no part of history should be forgotten, when we forget history that is when we repeat it.

There is one last thing I wanted to mention, Japan had there own holocaust in machuria, which is also largely forgotten.

[edit on 2770710 by Worldbehindyoureyes]

Originally posted by christianpatrick

And again, it is as I said. Don't tell a(n ex-) kraut how things are in his own (former) country.

So I have to take your word.

You say that writing a scholarly opinion about the real number will get you in jail if you don't write 6 million?

Then please provide me with a case. I am a professional historian and know of tons of essays that come to other conclusion than exactly 6 million. Yet none of them was ever indicted. How can that be if what you say is true?

If you're going to write such nonsense at least back it up. Where in the law does it say that 6 million is the only number? care to cite that part? Or care to link to anyone that made a coherent argument about the total number and got indicted for it? you can't.

If you are not talking BS here then please show me one professional scholar that was indicted for suggesting a number different than 6 million?

My friend just wrote on a project reviewing everyone who was indicted by the anti-holocaust-denial-laws in many countries. In the whole set that he studied, there was not one scholar who got indicted. So you won't be able to provide me with an example.

Does your whole argument consist of " I know it. It is so " ? I hope not.

Having lived in Germany doesn't equate knowing the law or being familiar with its application. As I noted above, for professional reasons I have some insight to this. There was not one person indicted under these law just for researching - only people who clearly denied the holocaust with an agenda and who failed any and all attempts at peer review were indicted under this law. No one else. Never was anyone indicted under these laws for simply researching or making an honest, source-based case.

Deny ignorance. If what you say is true you would have an example. Pleas provide. Just saying "it is so" is not making an argument.

[edit on 27-7-2010 by NichirasuKenshin]

reply to post by Danbones

I'm just going to quote zionists from now on. thats enough to illustrate the truth of things.

If you want to illustrate truth, why do you lie?
Ben Gurion never said:

We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.

Actually i have a clear conclusion to make - only few people here really interested in truth. Those people have all rights to research ,ask and challenge official history. Majority are here only to bash Jews/Israel and will use any cheap lie to do so. They have all the right to do this too, but to use such an emotionally challenged issue seems too low even for them. Wait... It does not.
Copy pasting from hate sites with similar-minded individuals who do not care about truth at all but are there just to "get em" does you bad service.

Oliver Stone apologises for claim Hitler was a 'scapegoat' in World War Two 'who did more damage to Russia than Jews'...

...His latest comments brought swift condemnation Jews in the US and Israel and forced the 63-year-old to make a contrite apology.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Well, that ends this debate.

[edit on 27-7-2010 by Danbones]