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The Arizona Law: Is It Racist? Here you decide!

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posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 01:02 PM
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As many of us here know there is an immigration bill from Arizona that has been causing many heated debates this summer. The bill, also known as Senate Bill 1070, has been portrayed as bill that promotes racism.

But have any of you read the bill?You might think "Hey it might just be me who is misinformed to what it actually says." But in this case it is promoting racism.

Here is the source of Senate Bill 1070 as a pdf.

www.azleg.gov...

Here is the entire 3rd paragraph of the bill. Taken IN CONTEXT, without any editing
.

B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).


And here is another paragraph of Senate Bill 1070...


E. A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, WITHOUT A WARRANT, MAY ARREST A PERSON
38 IF THE OFFICER HAS PROBABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE THAT THE PERSON HAS COMMITTED
39 ANY PUBLIC OFFENSE THAT MAKES THE PERSON REMOVABLE FROM THE UNITED STATES.

40 F. EXCEPT AS PROVIDED IN FEDERAL LAW, OFFICIALS OR AGENCIES OF THIS
41 STATE AND COUNTIES, CITIES, TOWNS AND OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISIONS OF THIS
42 STATE MAY NOT BE PROHIBITED OR IN ANY WAY BE RESTRICTED FROM SENDING,
43 RECEIVING OR MAINTAINING INFORMATION RELATING TO THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF
44 ANY INDIVIDUAL OR EXCHANGING THAT INFORMATION WITH ANY OTHER FEDERAL, STATE
45 OR LOCAL GOVERNMENTAL ENTITY FOR THE FOLLOWING OFFICIAL PURPOSES:



So look at Senate Bill 1070 yourself and post your findings here.

(And p.s. I wasn't the one who capitalized everything.)



[edit on 26-7-2010 by Gentill Abdulla]




posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 01:17 PM
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reply to post by Gentill Abdulla
 


Hey, good call. My dad is a Bordcer Patrol agent and he said that this # is not at all the same as the federal policies, that he generally must get an illegal alien to admit to being an illegal alien in order to detain him/her/them. In other words he cannot go and detain someone who's walking on the sidewalk in San Diego on the grounds that they "look illegal."

Once you let the cops arrest people on the principle of appearance as probable cause you # everyone. The idea that because your skin is a certain color or because you're speaking a foreign language can be probable cause is absurd.

This # is literally like "paper's please" in fact it says "WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c)."

So if you "look illegal" to a cop he can use that as probable cause for a search? Just by existing and being your skin color you are automatically suspect of a crime? No citizen of the United States of America should be made a genetic probable cause, that regardless of their behavior, a cop can justify "probable cause" with something the citizen has no control over, and which has nothing to do with behavior of an individual.

It's like saying that the cops can search your car because you have green eyes and people with green eyes smoke weed, except this time around it's the Mexicans this is happening to.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by sremmos
 


I thought I would read it for myself because it most likely will be different than the media portrays it.

So as not to be ignorant I went and read it. I was completely appalled by it and am disgusted by the fact people would even think of such a bill.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 01:30 PM
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I don't think it is as much racist as it is protectionist.

With all the economic pressure states are under they want to ensure the scarce public monies are not spent on illegal aliens.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 01:39 PM
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Doesn't mean we can't have better efforts to protect against illegals.

It also doesn't mean we have to be racist and harass everyone.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:03 PM
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while i don't think that the bill is 'racist',

i think it's not the most intelligent way to deal with an immigration problem

if you have a bug problem in your house for instance, you don't just deal every bug you see, you call the bug man and lay out a protective chemical wall around you house, or you make sure to keep windows and doors closed

my point is this is not going to stop people from coming into america illegally, it might make some more fearful while doing it based on the possible consequences if caught

but my point is we need more money and time, as well as intelligence, put into our border fences and gaurds

we also should consider stoping a useless debate on wether a bill that won't solve anything anyway is racist or not,

i don't mean that in discredit to the value of this thread in debating racism and this particular bill, i just beleive our eyes are being diverted from the real goal, perhaps my two cents might mean something

the goal is to STOP illegal immigration, this bill is not the solution to illegal imigration, racist or not, i beleive we should focus our money and attention as a country that is threatened economically by illegal imigrants in building up the border security, not becoming more of a 1984, lock-down, big brother is watching you ( and can arrest you for any reason ) country!



[edit on 7/26/2010 by indigothefish]



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by Gentill Abdulla
 


how many times does it have to be explained to people, that its not racist if the persons fit the profile?


I was pulled over by an officer because i matched the description of a man who had robbed a convenience store. I gladly handed over my identification and answered a few questions....not a problem for me , im happy to help when it can aid in getting criminals off teh street.....

So, because he was white, and I was white, and I got pulled over , was that racist? Or is it only racist when youre mexican or black? Or when you belong to a minority?

Complete B.S Ive read the bill, the whole thing. Theres nothing racist in it......theres not a SINGLE one of my friends thats a legal immigrant from Mexico or any other country that disagrees with this bill........

Drop the race card. This country has become a nation full of complacent little whiney babies. People have lost their grit, you do what it takes to keep your country and your families safe.

This bill provides Arizona with the tools to do that, and start taking control back. The cartels are already moving in, and something must be done. Its not going to get done by being "PC" and crying foul because of the color of skin.

Like i said, why is it when a white man is profiled its not "racial" but when a special interest group is, all the sudden were painted in jack boots?

Give me a break



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:09 PM
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So this is 'racist' because it discriminates against someone who has broken the law? This bill doesn't target mexicans. It targets ALL illegal aliens, be they from Norway, Bosnia, Africa or Mexico.

Assuming that the only illegals are Mexican is the actual racist thought pattern here.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:13 PM
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I am not having a problem with the bill I am having a problem with the PRINCIPLES of what an illegal looks like.

I mean come on.

And I am not assuming that all illegals are Mexican I am again not agreeing with the PRINCIPLES that some officers might use.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:20 PM
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If I'm not mistaken, the bill is saying a police officer has the right and duty to question someone's legality if there is doubt AND, separately, that the police can arrest someone on probable cause if they're suspected of a crime which would have them deported.

Doesn't seem so radical to me.

And the law isn't racist. Unfortunately, I'm willing to bet there will be quite a few police officers who ARE racist and will use the law to fulfill their racist agenda. This is already a problem, though, all over the country.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:23 PM
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The truth of the matter is it all comes down to racial profiling. Any time it comes down to a matter of appearance you're going to have a case of racial profiling. It's sad and unfortunate, but that's the gist of the matter.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:30 PM
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I don't belive that AZ new law is racist. This is a state that is under atack. And the Federal government isnt helping. They have the 2nd highest kidnapping rate in the world. 1st highest stolen car rate in the US.

I'm 100% with AZ

If our government cant step up, our states have too!!



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:38 PM
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I think it is more about what you sound like, rather than what you look like.
If you cant speak english, that could indicate that you MAY be here illegally. Just a thought...



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:44 PM
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I think if we beat the dead horse of racism in this case a thousand more times on ATS we can get somewhere. Dont all of you? Because the dozens of other threads on exactly the same topic, with the same data, arent enough. We need a bunch more.

Especially more that seem to be saying they have some new evidence to lure people into reading the same old crap that has been available since day one.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by Elostone
I think it is more about what you sound like, rather than what you look like.
If you cant speak english, that could indicate that you MAY be here illegally. Just a thought...


Again, you're dealing with appearance, and that's a mighty poor substitute for definitive proof. That any one may be apprehended on the basis of appearance alone is disturbing enough. Let's face it, innocent people are going to be caught up in the nightmare based on appearance alone.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 03:06 PM
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reply to post by maria_stardust
 


I disagree. When we encounter a caucasian European that has an accent, one of the first things most people ask is "Where are you from?" Nothing racist about it.
Blind people cant "see" appearances, but they can "hear" when a person has a foreign accent, They can "hear" when a person speaks a foreign language.
This has nothing to do with "appearance".
Also, those being questioned about their citizenship must have broken the law to begin with. The law does not allow Law Enforcement to simply arbitrarily walk up to a person that has not broken the law and ask for their papers.
What people cant seem to understand is that we are talking Nationalism here, NOT Racism.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 03:12 PM
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Originally posted by maria_stardust
Let's face it, innocent people are going to be caught up in the nightmare based on appearance alone.


Your concept of "nightmare" seems to have a low, low, low threshold. If having your papers checked qualifies as "nightmare", then most of us are already in hell anyhow. For me, filing an insurance claim or doing my taxes is lots more painful, and I don't sweat too much about it, either!



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 03:26 PM
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Come on people it is as simple as this. You have to have Idendification in all 50 states. If a police officer asks for this Idendification, you must give it to them. Police can legally detain you until you provide proper Idendification.

This law is no different.

Why in the hell does it matter if it is "profiling" anyways? If you are here legal what will it matter if they "profile" you and ask you for legal status?

If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to worry about.

[edit on 26-7-2010 by LeaderOfProgress]



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by Elostone
 


On the contrary, appearance plays a significant role in this law.



20 B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON.




Also, those being questioned about their citizenship must have broken the law to begin with.


It seems that reasonable suspicion is all that is necessary to question a person of their citizenship status. And reasonable suspicion is a matter of perspective -- not necessarily a matter of criminal intent. It comes down to profiling.

reply to post by buddhasystem
 




Your concept of "nightmare" seems to have a low, low, low threshold. If having your papers checked qualifies as "nightmare", then most of us are already in hell anyhow. For me, filing an insurance claim or doing my taxes is lots more painful, and I don't sweat too much about it, either!


It has nothing to do with any type of threshold, as much as it is something that should occur to begin with under this specific law. How many times have you read on this site about people complaining about having to show their IDs at border patrol checkpoints, especially if their legal citizens? Too many times.

As it stands, the vast majority of the people who will be subjected to this law are going to be Hispanic. And all it takes to be questioned under this law is reasonable suspicion -- in short, appearance.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by indigothefish
if you have a bug problem in your house for instance, you don't just deal every bug you see, you call the bug man and lay out a protective chemical wall around you house



[edit on 7/26/2010 by indigothefish]


Are you saying we should gas the border? You sir, are appalling.


I do think the new law is discriminative. But, calling it racist is taking it a little too far. Should they just stop everyone they see near the Mexican border on account that they might be an illegal immigrant? Because that would be a tremendous waste of time.




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