Who else sees the religion/atheism debate as a non-issue?

I'm outside religiously of the factions, conclaves and groups so of course I see the arguments as pointless. Neither side will ever win but they will continue to bicker for the rest of eternity.

reply to post by silent thunder


The fence is an awkward point of life chief, everyone goes through it, we all fall off at one point after our experiences.

I hope you fall of the right end.

Thats how it goes mate.

I wish you well in wisdom.

Its all in your court.



If I had spoken to you just over a year ago I would have said you were a very intelligent individual or a shamen like man but right now with what I know, your lost mate but if you keep on living you will find the truth and that I pray for.

Edit: people post on youtube but dont allow links these days

Religion is a business in these times, the bible even tells you of it, truth comes from the word itself. If people read it instead of looking to the world, we would be completely satisfied, instead the majority watch tv evangelist's selling cloths for cash and false profits, it never works as its an oxymoron when the love of money is the root of all evil.

False prophets are rife today as the word of God tells anyone who reads it with the spirit.

Above everything else here from the replies ive read, if anyone thinks this world will change for the better you will be correct for a short time, then it will get more worse than its ever been. At that point when you look at the end of your fingers as it changes back, think about it.



[edit on 26-7-2010 by XXXN3O]

I think it does matter, greatly perhaps.

It may be true that humans tend to fall into group-think, which religion exacerbates, that can lead to mass movements. Mass movements, historically, don't end well more often than not unless rooted in some idea that is better than humanity truly acts (which is rare that it is, let alone if/when it is corrupted).

Communism and religion fall into the very same position in my mind.

Folks like to think of Christianity as having gotten over it's brutal years, but I tend to disagree even looking at recent history (especially in Eastern Europe).

As for proving God exists or not, it does nothing to prove religion. The two are, truly, mutually exclusive as then one would have to prove that God does care, did/does intervene, and aligns itself with one of the many tenants.

The argument has merit, being an atheist myself, as I don't believe the good of religion outweighs the bad for the prime reason that there is little to nothing that religious people do that non-religious could not and do not. The bad, however, is normally unreasonable and can not be reasoned with.

Take some of our friendly neighborhood Muslims for example. There is no middle ground or discussion to be had there.

Charity
Kindness
Helping those around you
Not lying
Not Stealing
Not murdering
Etc

These are generally accepted as beneficial with or without religion so the idea that religion has created these ideas is laughable at best.

This discussion must be had for the betterment of mankind.

Peace
KJ

The question I have is, does an atheist behave differently than a religious person? Other than things like going to a meeting place to discuss the religion, is there any real difference in behavior?

Is an Atheist going to go off and treat his fellow human horribly, just because of a lack of belief in a god? Not likely.

And for certain, you cannot say religious men are innocent.

So in the end, what is the difference? What is being argued? Is there anything measurable?

I will say, given what we know about science, Atheism is no more based in truth that Religion. They both require a LOT of faith.

I see it as another way for one group to shove their beliefs down another groups throat. It's a two way street. Some atheists can't accept that people have faith and theists can't accept that some people don't have faith.

For me it draws parallels to the nanny state, "someone" is going to tell you how to live regardless. Insert whatever group in the quotations and it works.

So yeah for me it's a non-issue. I fall in the group of I know there is a higher power but I'm not going to force that idea onto someone else, but I also don't prescribe to the idea that the church IS the answer. I'm the moderate of the religious world. The left is atheism and the right is theism. I'm stuck in the middle, both sides IN MY OPINION... SUCK.

Leave people to live their lives how they choose and watch what happens... drastic increase in peace and drastic decrease in violence. Simple. Too bad that the world doesn't mimic my vision.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

So in the end, what is the difference? What is being argued? Is there anything measurable?

I will say, given what we know about science, Atheism is no more based in truth that Religion. They both require a LOT of faith.

Atheist don't spend millions of dollars to prevent 2 people from getting married.

Believe what you want - - stay out of my government and equal rights.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

So in the end, what is the difference? What is being argued? Is there anything measurable?

I will say, given what we know about science, Atheism is no more based in truth that Religion. They both require a LOT of faith.

Atheists don't stop a glob of cells from saving people's lives.

Atheists do not require faith to have a non-belief.

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

So in the end, what is the difference? What is being argued? Is there anything measurable?

I will say, given what we know about science, Atheism is no more based in truth that Religion. They both require a LOT of faith.

Atheist don't spend millions of dollars to prevent 2 people from getting married.

Believe what you want - - stay out of my government and equal rights.

Atheists in my hometown spent not all that much money so that they could make an old lady ringing a bell for the salvation army stand outside the post office during one of our worst ice/snow storms.

I see an irrational exertion of ones beliefs on the other by both groups.

It's definitely not a non-issue! It's a core issue of the human condition. Unfortunately, both sides have forgotten how to carry a civil discussion. But don't let that distract you from the question :-)

Originally posted by cromwellcv

The truth is; the joke is on us because God exists in any way you look at it.

NO.

It really amazes me that some simply can not accept there are those who DO NOT accept the existence of god - any god - or god force.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Atheists in my hometown spent not all that much money so that they could make an old lady ringing a bell for the salvation army stand outside the post office during one of our worst ice/snow storms.

I see an irrational exertion of ones beliefs on the other by both groups.

You will need to explain further.

But why is a religious person standing in front of a government office?

Are you saying she should be allowed to solicit inside a government office?

And yes donations are solicitation. Is the Salvation Army going to use that money to provide gifts for the child of a gay couple or feed them? NO - they are not.

never mind

2nd



[edit on 26-7-2010 by kyred]

Originally posted by Annee
Is the Salvation Army going to use that money to provide gifts for the child of a gay couple or feed them? NO - they are not.

Is it your belief that the Salvation Army requires kids to fill out applications in order to receive help, and that said applications inquire about the sexual preferences of their parents?

Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan

Atheists in my hometown spent not all that much money so that they could make an old lady ringing a bell for the salvation army stand outside the post office during one of our worst ice/snow storms.

I see an irrational exertion of ones beliefs on the other by both groups.

You will need to explain further.

But why is a religious person standing in front of a government office?

Are you saying she should be allowed to solicit inside a government office?

And yes donations are solicitation. Is the Salvation Army going to use that money to provide gifts for the child of a gay couple or feed them? NO - they are not.

I think what he is stating is that because atheists tend to avoid anything of religious affiliations, instead of coming in from the cold, she stayed out in it, due to less than stellar contributions.
Remember Freedom of Religion is not freedom from religion. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say separation of church and state. You point it out and I'll give you a cookie. There are several supporting documents, but if you go by those then we have to go by the supporting documents about the 2nd amendment too...

reply to post by brutalsun


Have to ask you chief, not through ignorance but more through reality as everyone terms it.

Do you really think the United States is still a Christian nation?

Just asking and no offence intended, just chat.

I think that Christianity is becoming the sidelined so called reality, the book tells you about it (bible) as I am sure you might know.



[edit on 26-7-2010 by XXXN3O]

Originally posted by brutalsun

Remember Freedom of Religion is not freedom from religion. Nowhere in the Constitution does it say separation of church and state. You point it out and I'll give you a cookie. There are several supporting documents, but if you go by those then we have to go by the supporting documents about the 2nd amendment too...

I know the whole Separation nonsense blah blah - - you are trying to feed me.

Through courts and law suits won - - precedence have been set over the years for Separation of Church and State - - - also both Freedom for and from religion.

Get out of the dark ages.

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
So in the end, what is the difference? What is being argued? Is there anything measurable?

Well the main debate that should worry all of us is the one that centers around whether or not our children are taught the "science" of "intelligent design" or "young earth creation" which isn't a science at all but a religious view dressed up to try to make it LOOK like science. So far logic has prevailed in the supreme court in the USA, though some areas in the USA had managed to get either the teaching of evolution banned, or "creation science" taught alongside evolution, until the court barred it.

That debate is explained eloquently by Dr Hazen in this excerpt from one of his lectures discussing young Earth Creation "science" versus evolution:



Outside of the issue regarding what is taught in schools, I don't see the debate as a big issue.

[edit on 26-7-2010 by Arbitrageur]

reply to post by Annee


Thats complete nonsense though, how can you connect anything spiritual with something from courts, science or theory?

Its a bit like me saying we can do anything. We cannot. But we can imagine or believe in anything.

Just consider the fact that anything starts with imagination.

What If you were wrong??

Lets just say for a second here (contrary to my beliefs by the way) that God never existed and anyone who truly believes is on a dead end. They die and then....

??

What big crime was commited and why are you so afraid of it, if it is a big joke?


[edit on 26-7-2010 by XXXN3O]

reply to post by silent thunder


That's because there was no religion before man and the universe was created only spirituality and truth.
Now there are hundreds of false idea's about the origins of man and our earth.
These include both the religious and atheist viewpoint, so from a certain point of view you are correct.

Originally posted by XXXN3O
reply to post by Annee

 

Thats complete nonsense though, how can you connect anything spiritual with something from courts, science or theory?

Its a bit like me saying we can do anything. We cannot. But we can imagine or believe in anything.

Huh?

We need imagination in the government? Is that what you are saying?