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Who else sees the religion/atheism debate as a non-issue?

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posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 01:08 PM
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Originally posted by Annee
God believers get all emotional.

Atheists attempt to stay and respond (rather flatly) with logic.


I enjoy dialog with people who respond with logic. I dislike dialog with people who become angry, indignant, hostile, demeaning and condescending. My experience is that atheists far too often are the latter, though not all, and I'm sure that the ratio is probably about the same as for the theists.

If I was making a guess, I'd say that the angry ones are angry about something else, and just express it in this fashion.

To their credit, a religious person can claim that they offer salvation and life in paradise for all eternity, which even an atheist would agree would be pretty sweet, if it was real.

But those who urinate on crucifixes, burn churches, swear at me and tell me I'm an idiot for having faith, I truly don't understand what their motivation is.




posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


i've met atheists that get all emotional about their convictions, just as bad as "bible thumpers". emotion isn't relegated to the pious only. we all have them. most of us anyway.

so you disagree, and assert that many atheists would as well. you will get no argument from me on that. i wouldn't expect believers to agree with my previous statement either.

not all atheists or believers can be lumped in with their respective fundamentalists. not all atheists lack emotion, not all believers are overwhelmed by it.

both groups (imo) are actively looking for answers, that cannot be readily explained or dismissed passively.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by silent thunder
 


Religious Zealots and Militant Atheists are equally stupid, and they both argue vehemently over unprovable, pointless bull@#$%. The world can only sit back and hope that they kill each other off so we don't have to listen to the mindless blather spewing out of their sewers on a daily basis.

All they do is steal our air, and piss everyone off.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 01:37 PM
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Idon't care what people believe for i have no interest in telling people what they should, i don't believe any of the current religions of the world today i believe that something made the big bang and what ever that was made all the universe's and plains that exist. Life just happens in my opinion its just takes a planet in the right spot orbiting a sun



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 01:38 PM
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To the OP, the only reason you "feel" that this debate is a non-issue is because you live in a free country. I don't know what that country is, but in some countries if the debate is even raised, you could be killed, and quickly.

That's what freedom does. It allows you to get to the heart of what people fear: That everything they think they know, and what their family knows, could be completely wrong.

Atheist people could be wrong. Religious people could be wrong. We could ALL be wrong.

There could be so much truth out there (and in here) in the universe that we may not have even the slightest clue of what's going on anywhere, let alone in the next life.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 01:40 PM
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reply to post by silent thunder
 


I see the whole argument like picking two representatives of the color spectrum to discuss color.

Peace



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 01:49 PM
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any type of religion is nothing more than an easy way out

there is nothing anyone can say to disprove that



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by silent thunder
 


Agreed, it is of no importance, we are all in this together even if you "believe" it or not. Whatever religion or non-religion. Religion is just a control mechanism, oddly enough, atheism is right there too!!!

People who "claim" to be atheists are just as bad as the religious zealots and Zionists. So it is not an issue for me. I know who I am and what I am.

Wonder if animals, in the wild, have these discussions? Bet they don't in the zoo's either.

[edit on 26-7-2010 by daddio]



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:10 PM
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Picture death as a door.

We don't know what is on the other side of the door.

Some people will tell you they know what is on the other side, BUT THEY DON'T KNOW.

An atheist and a religious believer stand at the door. The Christian has to believe that there is a god in order to have an afterlife. The atheist refuses to believe because of logic.

If there is no god, they are both in the same boat, they cease to exist when they step through the door.

If there is a god, then the believer is rewarded for his belief. Who stands to lose more? At what cost?



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:13 PM
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It is an issue. I just don't care about it because I believe in God and nothing can change that.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by butcherguy

If there is a god, then the believer is rewarded for his belief. Who stands to lose more? At what cost?


So you live your life in FEAR. Fear of a final consequence.

I live my life every day - - to contribute to this world and the people in it - - including my own children and grand children.\

I give all that I can because I believe it is the right thing to do.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:17 PM
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Well my issue with this is that whenever this comes up, us religious people are insane in their eyes. Apparently we believe in some "cosmic zombie" and all this other nonsense, that is extremely insulting.

Do you honestly want to get into a debate with someone so unconscious of other's views that their willing to blatantly insult the entire institution of religion? Because I don't. Once people have hit that stage, it's nearly impossible to talk to or reason with them.

Now, as a Christian it's my duty to spread the word of the Lord, whether one decides to believe what I say, look into it further, begin to attend church, etc. is totally up to them, but i will not FORCE my beliefs down someones throat, nor will I sit and insult them.

People can believe what they want to, it's not my issue. But there is no way I'm getting into any argument with an atheist who will sit and insult and laugh at my views and beliefs.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:18 PM
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I agree with the OP that it "should be" a non issue. Our whole mode of communication is symbology and labels to be begin with, so even the notion of 'belief in God' is fraught with a million different interpretations. Who cares what some one else believes? Hell, I don't even believe the same thing today that I did a month ago - but then again I recognize this as an inability to frame and grasp the noumenal via the limits of labels and symbols.

While its fine to discuss ideas, I think its silly to launch entire threads with the sole purpose of dogmatically espousing atheism or theism.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:24 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by butcherguy

If there is a god, then the believer is rewarded for his belief. Who stands to lose more? At what cost?


So you live your life in FEAR. Fear of a final consequence.

I live my life every day - - to contribute to this world and the people in it - - including my own children and grand children.\

I give all that I can because I believe it is the right thing to do.



The believer can live their life in fear of a god that they have not satisfied with their actions in life.

The atheist can live their life in fear of dying and the oblivion that they believe will follow.

And an agnostic can live in fear of either or both!

I choose none of the above.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:33 PM
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reply to post by butcherguy
 


Ah, Pascal's Wager.


If there is a god, then the believer is rewarded for his belief. Who stands to lose more? At what cost?

Now imagine both the believer and the atheist are wrong. Neither are rewarded.


An atheist and a religious believer stand at the door. The Christian has to believe that there is a god in order to have an afterlife.

(emphasis mine)
Here you've shown your hand. You are, evidently, a Christian and, accordingly, very likely believe that Christianity is right. What if, instead, Islam is right? Hinduism? Then the Christian is unrewarded. One of the largest flaws in Pascal's Wager is that it presumes there is only a binary choice in being religious or non-religious. This, of course, is nonsense, as there are an endless number of religions and corresponding beliefs. Even within Christianity, there is dispute. Just try asking a member of the Westboro Baptist Church to find common ground with an Anglican.


Next, you have the larger problem that Pascal's Wager has nothing to do with whether or not any higher power actually exists. As an atheist, I cannot simply conjure belief out of thin air. You could put a gun to my head and tell me to believe in your God and I would lie and say, "I believe!" but that doesn't mean anything. Likewise with any other atheist. The fact about atheism is that it is grounded in logic and the logic that every atheist holds shows that no higher power exists and it is incredibly difficult to break that. In fact, I would wager (ahem) that anybody who claims to be an "ex-atheist" was never, in fact, an atheist, but merely a misdiagnosed agnostic or someone who experienced a period of doubt.

Finally, to put the final nail in the wager's coffin, I'll quote everything2 noder NotBridgetJones's description of Cavanna's Wager:


1. If You choose to worship a god and he does indeed exist, you will be saved.
2. If You choose not to worship a god and he does indeed not exist, you lose nothing, not even a second of your precious time.
3. If You choose to worship a god and he does in fact not exist, you lose some of your precious time.
4. If You choose not to worship a god and he does in fact exist, three possibilities:
a. He does not care if you worship him, that's basically the same as 3.
b. He is a good god, and He knows he made you like you are, i.e. inperfect and irreverencious. He cannot blame you not worshipping Him, it's his very own fault. He will send you to heaven anyway, because He is good and forgiving.
c. He is an evil god, and no matter what you do, you are f***ed. Even more, if you worship him, he will do the evil action, and be evil to you in the first place. In fact you're better off with disrespecting him, he'll find that cool.

(Source)



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:34 PM
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Originally posted by butcherguy

The believer can live their life in fear of a god that they have not satisfied with their actions in life.

The atheist can live their life in fear of dying and the oblivion that they believe will follow.


I have no Fear of dying. I fear pain that might accompany death - - but have no fear of death.

Contributing to this world today and how it will affect future generations is all I need.



[edit on 26-7-2010 by Annee]



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:34 PM
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You'll see these two things in every atheism/religion thread:

1. Atheist states why he doesn't believe in a deity.

2. A Christian who is trying hard to suppress his doubts sees this as a personal attack.

And, as we all know, God is very weak and saying He doesn't exist hurts his feelings.



My advice to Christians: try following your own religious texts:



Matthew 10:14
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.

Mark 6:11
And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear you, when ye depart thence, shake off the dust under your feet for a testimony against them.

Luke 9:5
And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.


Just LET IT GO. If you just can't, maybe you should re-examine the remnants of your faith. I say "remnants" because your faith is obviously so weak that it can't be challenged without you trying to convince everyone else, much like the accused cheating spouse strikes out and accuses his wife of being unfaithful.

Try convincing YOURSELF first.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:37 PM
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I agree, its exactly like the UFO debates. I don't even bother taking part in threads where the OP hasn't done any research and comes out with ridiculous statements. Its just not worth the hastle anymore. Plenty of other members to talk to and indeed there are plenty of other members who will take my place in the debates.

Religion is a powerful topic and one that will never be won as we all have our different views based on beliefs and experiences.

Its the ying yang of life.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:47 PM
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Absolutely agree. I was a Christian kid, then an atheist teenager. Now I'm neither. I think 'Pagan' or 'Gnostic' is the probably the closest way of describing my beliefs and interests now. The growing popularity of hardcore atheism concerns me, particularly the belief that "the world would be a better place without religion". Because yes, in a sense I agree - the major religions have blighted mankind. But I fear many of the proponents of such a view would include all forms of spiritual practice in that prohibition, given half a chance - not just the major religions. Overall, that's a fascistic type of intent, and honestly, the world would be a grim place without the freedom to practice a chosen form of spirituality freely. Most atheists don't know it yet, but ultimately I think they'd be forced to agree.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by pr3l33t
 
The only argument I might have with you is the fact that you presume to know that I am a Christian. And by so doing, you presume to know that I am religious at all. I find it interesting that people get presumptuous and snitty(not aimed at anyone in particular) when I stated 'a' way of looking at something.

Didn't say at all what I believed. Didn't tell anyone what they should believe.

Didn't come to any conclusion with 'Pascals Whatever', just asked a question at the end.

And at this point, I don't think I am being 'touchy', just calling things the way I see them.




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