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Who else sees the religion/atheism debate as a non-issue?

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posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:11 AM
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I cannot explain it rationally, even to myself, but the religion-versus-athiesm debate seems ridiculous and tautological to me somehow. In other words, it seems like a kind of non-issue.

Perhaps I'm simply bored of reading endless arguments on the topic,* but somehow it just doesn't strike me as all that important.

Pondering this a bit more deeply, I guess that when it comes to religion, I don't really *believe* as much as I *feel.* To me, this takes religion out of the realm of "belief" and into...well, a totally different kind of experience.

Questions like the scientific origin of the universe just simply don't feel to me like they have anything to do with the core of religion whatsoever. I am aware many on both sides of the fence will disagree, perhaps violently. But the feeling of the divine, the nobility and challenge of being ethical to one's fellow man, the experience of primal awe in the face of the divine, the sense of humility before something greater than oneself...this "feels like" it runs on one track of experience. Meanwhile Hard-headed, frontal-lobe-style rational scientific investigation of origins -- this seems a totally unrelated type of inquiry.

Like I said, I can't really explain it. Maybe one of you who can intuitively grasp what I'm reaching for here can do a better job.



*yeah, I know, I know, here I go creating another one...




posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:13 AM
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To me it's annoying seeing both sides arguing and getting no where with their insults to one another.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:26 AM
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Atheists cant prove there isn't a God,religious folk cant prove there is a God as for me yes there is something out there but pardon me if I dont pray to it or worship it


+4 more 
posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:26 AM
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I believe there is a difference between religion and spirituality. I believe an atheist can be spiritual. I don't think religious people are spiritual. I think most religious people have been brainwashed into believing they are spiritual. Religion is not the answer, neither is atheism for that matter. It's spirituality that's important.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:28 AM
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reply to post by silent thunder
 


It is no different then religion concept A vs religion concept B. Both are filled with fanatics, and both are prone to engage in intellectual sloppiness.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:31 AM
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Every POV presented in this thread, EVERY one of em, falls into the class of religion.... There are people who like to discuss and compare their religions.. simple as that



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:31 AM
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I always look forward to an atheist coming in to say that religion is a tool to oppress the masses and that it was all made up. Makes me feel psychic.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 02:34 AM
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Originally posted by alonzo730
I believe there is a difference between religion and spirituality. I believe an atheist can be spiritual. I don't think religious people are spiritual. I think most religious people have been brainwashed into believing they are spiritual. Religion is not the answer, neither is atheism for that matter. It's spirituality that's important.


Then your thinking of agnosticism. Atheism is the total rejection of the spiritual(all we are is a biological machine, determinism). Religion is based upon the spiritual, forged from mindless tradition.

When religious tradition outweighs spirituality, it should be discarded I think.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 03:05 AM
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As a quasi Libertarian, do not believe in open borders, the rest is pretty much my platform, I could care less what God or Purple Flying Spaghetti monster, or lack there of, that someone puts there faith in.

Just leave everyone alone. Let everyone have their rights to Life, Liberty and Property. Just leave everyone alone gubmint.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 03:15 AM
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It is the agenda to drive a wedge between us.
I find it something that each person has a right to hold personal, like sexual preferences. We can discuss things together, but some things we keep to our private conversations.
It used to be called manners.
I like manners, but unfortunately for some of us, they are out of style.

The arguments I see on these boards I discount, because there are people who get compensation to start arguments about personal beliefs, and I find that ridiculous.
They should go get a job at McDonalds flipping burgers if they are so desperate for money, I mean really, how crass.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 03:20 AM
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There really does not seem to be much debate. A quick perusal of the religion forum seems to show a majority of the threads mentioning atheism are just some religious diatribe about how stupid/wrong/naive/uninformed/etc. atheists are.

Although I acknowledge there are good and bad kinds on both sides of the issue there is one trend that seems to hold perfectly true. Among the atheists, there are a few who genuinely want to understand religious types. I have yet to come across a religious type on ATS that is even remotely interested in understanding atheists.

For that matter, most of the time atheism is mentioned it is defined incorrectly in order to stand atop some fallen straw man anyway. There is no real debate going on here.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 03:23 AM
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reply to post by silent thunder
 


I agree arguing faith with science is stupid, it is oranges vs apples.
Science cannot prove that there is no God and the Church cannot prove there is.
It is simply faith, either you have it or don't.
I tried to argue religion before and I realized the HUGE Chasm in between us as we argued in vain, i realized that the wheels were spinning and getting nowhere fast.
Since then I will not argue the issue.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 03:43 AM
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Originally posted by c g henderson
There really does not seem to be much debate. A quick perusal of the religion forum seems to show a majority of the threads mentioning atheism are just some religious diatribe about how stupid/wrong/naive/uninformed/etc. atheists are.

Although I acknowledge there are good and bad kinds on both sides of the issue there is one trend that seems to hold perfectly true. Among the atheists, there are a few who genuinely want to understand religious types. I have yet to come across a religious type on ATS that is even remotely interested in understanding atheists.

For that matter, most of the time atheism is mentioned it is defined incorrectly in order to stand atop some fallen straw man anyway. There is no real debate going on here.


I have lots of fun when debating with atheists.. your "accusation" that atheist try to honestly understand believers while believers try nothing of the sorts interests me... how do you suposse us religious folks can try to gain a better understanding...
when I think about this concept, I feel like I have to agree with your standpoint. I cant see how one can be religious AND have an understanding why people dont believe in ANY form of deity except for a rational scientific one.. Being religious means being convinced of the existence of spiritual entities invisible to the naked eye. Atheist do not believe anything that is invisible can be real (correct me if I'm wrong). Here's were the paradox sets in. I, as a believer cannot comprehend how atheists cannot believe in those spiritual entities. I am of the opinion that there is evidence in abundance to prove that there is more on this planet then what meets the naked eye, take the numerous cases of people being haunted, the oujia board, psychics and other "unexplainable phenomena. Heck even the US military has a history of studying these phenomena...

When accepting these phenomena as fact, one has to acknowledge the existance of "deity's" being real. at least this is how I came to the conclusion...

Some serious input on this would be apreciated in a setting of healthy debate



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 03:46 AM
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Oh I cant agree more, & unfortunately Im probably one of those you mention, Ive been in an 'argument' about it for a few days now. You seem to have summed it up well, perhaps I do 'feel', because I defiantely do not believe what I have been led to believe.

I have a 'feeling' there is a god, but I dont believe much of what the bible says. I dont trust him, & I dont feel he is as caring as is claimed. I HAVE seen a UFO, but that doesnt mean I saw an alien, so it doesnt prove they exist.

I (& my work partner) had a 10 hour ghost experience, but that doesnt prove that the afterlife (which I feel has enough scientific proof to be valid) IS heaven, god etc.

I did a good deed for a stroke sufferer today whilst wasting $80 I dont have helping yet another person. I'm in agony & in the middle of whats so far been a 2 hour argument with my girlfriend. Justice, no, but your idea has made me feel a bit better.



[edit on 26/7/2010 by SNAFU38]



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 04:02 AM
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reply to post by silent thunder
 


I couldn’t agree more... it gets so boring watching endless threads descend into nothing more than...

"Your sky god is a fairytale practiced by evil paedophiles spreading hate"

reply...

"You are gonna burn in hell for eternity" Followed by two pages of bible quotes that mean nothing to non believes who probably won’t even read them!!!


Both sides, who argue this passionately, are fanatics... I started a thread not so long ago about the battle between Science and faith... i tried to show that this argument, that often divides, is irrelevant and that both sides have faith...

One thing this thread did manage to do was unite atheists and Christians... unfortunately though, i only united them for a short time against me


Sadly it seems to simply boil down to this...

People are people... and it seems that a lot of them are not happy unless they are angrily shoving their beliefs down the throats of others!!

Peace



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 04:32 AM
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reply to post by silent thunder
 




Who else sees the religion/atheism debate as a non-issue?


Pretty much.

I think it's motivated by the same basic drive that motivates people to kill each other for not believing in their god. But athiests can't do that, so they take it out on religious people. And for the religious people, it's not really any change. Heathens are heathens, whether they worship the wrong god, or no god at all.



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 04:51 AM
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I see it as fun mental exercise in deconstructing concepts of belief. I say anyone should believe in what they wish as long as it does not directly lead to imminent harm .



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 07:16 AM
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I believe in a higher power however have long since abandoned my religion due to my anger at its hypocrisy and double standards. Atheists have never bothered me as one could never put a solid enough argument to me to stop me believing what I do and vice verse. It is strange though as atheism is that all atheists spent a great deal of their time trying to convince everyone that god does not exist where as I could not give a toss what they believe as long as it does not have a detrimental effect on my life.
Regards



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 07:36 AM
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I think it is utterly pathetic how religious people and athiests attempt to force each other to believe what they believe. Thankfully, the majority on both sides don't really care enough to do so, or we couldn't leave the house without being accosted and someone else's beliefs shoved down our throats.

I cannot see why there is an obsession with trying to make people change their beliefs. If you believe in God, Jesus, so on, fine; if you belief in a universal energy that makes up everyone and everything, fine; if you believe there was nothing, then a bang, then we suddenly existed and evolved into what we are now, fine. Who in the hell cares? So long as people are not trying to force their beliefs on other people - it's very simple.

As for the person who said something about all the threads from religious people started just to discuss how stupid, etc, athiests are - when I saw this thread, I immediately thought of the many threads I've seen created by athiests with the sole purpose of challenging the religious. I believe one was in fact called 'A challenge to all Christians'.

Both sides have their idiots who's egos won't let them accept that other people don't believe what they believe.

[edit on 26-7-2010 by ShadowArcher]



posted on Jul, 26 2010 @ 07:37 AM
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Religion has never made sense to me beyond being a philosophy: like Budhism, it is a set of guidelines.

I used to consider myself an Athiest while at the same time beleiving that we are, at our core, a pure energy being. After several years I finally realized that I was using the wrong label and that in fact I was Agnostic. The funny thing is that the label had no impact on what it was that I beleived.

A friend of mine sums it up best through the use of someone else's quote 'The only difference between me and the religious is that I believe in one less GOD'.

I agree with many of those who have posted that religion is a tool that has been bastardized and corrupted, spirtuality is what is important.

I am a firm beleiver in the scientific method and the use of intelligence to study and understand our universe. At the same time I also feel that there is something non-quantifyable about that universe. In my world there is no need for a GOD of any kind; I don't need to be told how to live a responsible life or have a reward dangled in front of me as a bribe for living a particular way.

Each of us has to follow the path that makes sense to us as individuals. Although there are growing numbers who feel as I do, it is not for everyone.

Likewise there are many beleif systems that are not for me either.

Until the masses understand that religion/spirituality/beleifs are the most personal of all things, not a definition of their identity, we will never progress as a civilization. As long as we are willing to hate based on what book a person chooses to read (if any) we will continue to spiral towards oblivion.

What a person beleives should only be an issue when it influences their actions towards others.

Beyond that, why does it matter?



[edit on 26-7-2010 by [davinci]]



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