Migrants sell up and flee Arizona ahead of crackdown

reply to post by whatukno


For all the flamebait you're throwing around in this thread, I would like you to try an experiment for me.

This will only work if you're an American Citizen, live here legally, and will work better if you're caucasian (Because "equal opportunity employer" doesn't apply to caucasians, unless they're handicapped. Don't look at me like that, you know damn well it's true).

Quit whatever job you have.
Be off of work for about 6 months. Why not shoot for a year?
Try to get employment (employing yourself does not count). Start filling out applications, hand out resumes.

Please come back to this thread and report how well you fared with your employment efforts. I'm seriously interested in how you will feel, knowing that with a 10% National unemployment rate - there are close to 20 million people in this country illegally.

Also, In any other country, you are asked by police constantly where you're from and if you're in that country legally. You're often asked for your papers / passports. Are we supposed to be special now? This isn't about "Police State", so quit crying like a little girl. Your little wishy washy rights jive doesn't fly straight.

reply to post by endisnighe


calling them undocumented immigrants or undocumented workers is like calling a drug dealer a unlicensed pharmacist. You are absolutly correct in saying "Criminal Invaders" Way to go AZ. the majority supports you, get the criminalsthe hell out. I just hope more states enact the same law.

reply to post by Xcathdra


Let's see, a cop can pretty much make up any reason they want to after the fact for the rape of a person's 4th Amendment right. So basically this new law gives cops carte blanche to pillage the 4th Amendment rights of every single citizen in Arizona.

Way to give police absolute authority Arizona!

So it works like this, they will just go around and whomever they feel like they will pat down and take the ID off of. If you happen to be illegal, they will of course justify the stop somehow and deport the illegal, if you are a citizen, they will make up whatever reason they have to in order to get your ID off of you.

Don't worry though, the right wing hates that particular Constitutional Amendment anyway.

Originally posted by The Sword
Anti-immigrant behavior is a DISTRACTION used to rile up the sleeping masses.

Don't ever call yourself enlightened when you're readily conditioned to hate illegal immigrants.

Before there were borders, people moved freely. The concept of borders is a tool of CONTROL.

This is where the argument comes off the rails.. I would surmise a very large group of peoplehave have a passionate view on this topic will readily say the following:

They dont have issues with people coming to this country to visit, or even to settle down and place roots. The issue is the manner in which they are coming here, refusing to comply with our laws.

If you were to go down to Mexico and comit a crime, I gaurantee they could care less you are an American. You are in their country, and subject to their laws, and they will tell you this.

All the majority want are these people to enter the country legally, and go through the process.

One of the things that makes America great is our door is open to everyone. The problem we run into these days is people come to this country not to become an American Citizen and take part in the process, but to come here illegally and demand special treatment.

It has been expected that if you come to this country, you assimilate yourself into the American tapestry, adding your own unique background and heritage into the fold. We no longer do this. Instead we have people wanting to live here, while remaining a citizen of another country, all the while demanding we treat them differently.

Justice is blind for a reason. The moment we force it to be something other than blind, we have sacrificed an essential part of what this country was founded on.

Oh great....they're coming to California(Socialist Mexico Lite). I'm sick of seeing more and more food items and advertisements, etc. being in both English and Spanish. Sometimes i see advertisements only in Spanish here. I'm just sick of this, I run into too many Hispanics being mad at me, like, really genuinely pissed at me because I'm of Hispanic descent and don't speak Spanish. It's because I'm in the United States and I SPEAK ENGLISH!!! If I'm in another country visiting, I'm going to do my best to try and speak their language because it's polite and I want to learn. That's why i went to that other country!!!

All the crime, where I live, comes from areas where there are mostly illegal immigrants. I'm sick and tired of it.

Not every one of the illegals I've met are like this. Some actually love this country, have learned English and want to eventually go about being a citizen in a legal way. FINE, if they go back to where they came from and come in legally, I'LL HELP THEM. I can't blame those ones though, because most of those countries are hellholes.

I view this country as a large house. They can't just come into our home and expect us to take care of them. THEY HAVE TO ASK PERMISSION TO ENTER OUR HOME, we give approval, they adapt to the culture here(and it's a wonderful culture based off of every culture and continually evolving) and then work for their earnings(roof over their head). It's mostly people who have migrated here I see are the HARDEST workers because they weren't born into a place like this.

Sorry for the rant guys and gals but this topic makes me into a volcano.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

Let's see, a cop can pretty much make up any reason they want to after the fact for the rape of a person's 4th Amendment right. So basically this new law gives cops carte blanche to pillage the 4th Amendment rights of every single citizen in Arizona.

Way to give police absolute authority Arizona!

So it works like this, they will just go around and whomever they feel like they will pat down and take the ID off of. If you happen to be illegal, they will of course justify the stop somehow and deport the illegal, if you are a citizen, they will make up whatever reason they have to in order to get your ID off of you.

Don't worry though, the right wing hates that particular Constitutional Amendment anyway.

Well lets clear a few things up. I am not giving carte blanche to anyone. Secondly, the 4th amendment does not apply to the individual, it applies to the Government.

The law Arizona passed does not give them any more authority than what they had before the law is passed. The notion that this law will allow Arizona Law Enforcement to break down doors and drag people out in the middle of the night is insane.

All the law does is allow Arizona authorities to detain people who are here illeagaly. If I come across a person who is illegal in my state, I can detain them and contact ICE. The response I get is they want to have local charges against them first before they will take action.

Law enforcement in this country cannot jsut randomly stop people and demand identification (New York city proved this). There has to be contact based on a crime being committed, whether it be speeding, burglary, jay walking what have you.

As far as your statement about cops making a reason for stopping you up. We are not perfect so sure, it has and will happen. My response to this would be for people to take an active intrest in their country and maybe understand the laws and how they work. You cant continue to blame Law Enforcement for a problem that the citizens of this country have refused to fix. By this I mean taking an active intrest in polotics and voting in people who most share their ideals.

The law Arizona passed is the exact same as the Federal Law.

So here is my question to those who think Law Enforcement goes to far in this area.

Why are you outraged that Arizone is enforcing a Law that was already on the books? Where is your outrage when ICE hooks people up and deports them?

You cant have your argument both ways.. Its either wrong for both groups, or its not.

Which is it?

[edit on 25-7-2010 by Xcathdra]

[edit on 26-7-2010 by Xcathdra]

Originally posted by jambatrumpet
no human being is illegal...

I wonder what kind of documentation our ancestors had when they showed up at Ellis Island? Mithinks they showed up with luggage and the clothes on their backs...

I am SO tired of the discriminative/racist/propagandist titles like 'Illegal Aliens' that are used to describe undocumented immigrants...

The majority of all Americans are citizens only because of the welcoming policies of our immigration system towards our great great grandparents...

And now we change the rules, and make hard working people, trying to better their lives, into criminals...

BTW the only true legitimate American citizens are the Native Americans- we stole the place from them in the first place...

And if you haven't figured it out... Demonizing immigrants-

(specifically brown skinned immigrants- I don't hear anyone complaining about the undocumented European immigrants in our midst)

is just another technique used by the 'Powers that Be' to keep our focus, and anger, away from the real criminals and injustices of our society...

[edit on 25-7-2010 by jambatrumpet]

In this day and age we are a Country of laws, like any other Country. All Countries have borders and if you cross them it is a crime, hence the 'illegal immigrant' title.

We have citizens here who have worked hard their entire lives and are now unemployed. Imagine how many citizens could be working if illegals didn't take their place? Our citizens have families to support too. Our citizens want a better life too, but arn't getting it.

The reason you don't hear as much about European illegal immigrants is because there are far more Hispanics than Europeans. Also the Europeans are not being catered to in the ways the Hispanics are. We now have to speak a foreign language in our own Country because of Hispanics in order to be employed in many places. There are signs everywhere in Spanish, not because of Africans, Not because of Asians or anyone else. In the cheap housing communities around here there are more Hispanics than any other culture. These are some reasons why you don't hear about illegal Europeans.

reply to post by Perseus Apex


I don't allow myself to start threads other than the two I posted for reasons I won't get into though I wish one would start a thread on their experiences with Synchronicity and Serendipity. When you acknowledge the concepts, you begin to understand their 'meaning' in the world around you. Learn to listen to all the signals around you, energy waves so to say, it makes alot more sense of the reality ~around~ U. It can make you hyper-sensual so to say, very perceptive and alert though more importantly 'alive' since you are not often deceived. When the world makes 'sense' around you for what it is, it is much easier to 'deal' with. It becomes a part of you. Right now the human race is cancerous unto itself. They need to 'remove' each others self inflicted tumors. Most tumors are actually created from stress and malnutrion, lack of motion in the tissues (excerTise)You become 'alive' so to say. I'm actually a very happy 'beeing' at this point in my shell. Currently my life works for me.....and for you. It Is as it Was to Bee, you seA.

I SeA beautiful days just ahead.
I'm just trying to avoid the 'storms'.
I heard just two went through the village near my farm.
I often wonder if that is a coincidence?

.....Oh, to change the topic;
I was assaulted with a dangerous weapon.
No police report.

Personally, I don't think it's necessary since the chief of police and the internal affairs department chose not to file a report on the information given. You see folks, sometimes it pays to go straight to the top instead of filing a 'complaint' cause the 'complaint' don't always GET to the intended recipients.

I understand that since this incident, an investigation is underway to clean up police corruption. The criminals involved were a scheming lawyer and a poor (both financially and soulfully) ol soot who's children have begun to follow his poor example. The 'soot' fellow used his son, whom he knew was going to jail for 6 other nonrelated charges, to throw a bicycle at my head. He tried to scam a few friends of mine as well as myself. He decided I knew too much even though "I" chose not to prosecute. My favor was not refunded but rather seen as a 'opportunity'. This is the logic and reason of an animal. If one is to act like an animal, naturally they are to be treated as such. This is natural law as are the consequences of not adhering to the truth. That was a bad decision though a desperate one. I don't believe it will work out for him very well in the end. Very poor judgement. I have the confidence to know he will be judged. He is at this very moment, both legally, soulfully, financially, familialy, stressfully, physically etc. etc. Crime doesn't work folks. Just say no.....but no thank you. It is not in your better interest. It never was. Money will not buy you happiness, it only provides the illusion though it faaaaades as wrinkles on a face though the wrinkles come much, much sooner. Many deserve their daily entropy. Do they not? I suppose this is by natural design. I'm living proof therefor I know what I say. My freinds are two. They're some pretty straight shooters (not in the military way though some would apply), when they're at their best. They get better daily. The result is in their mental and physical health. They exude positive warm energy as all 'true' leaders do.

Oh, time to take back 'your' pentagon. The same rotten apples are still in the core. The whole Pentagon appears to be rolling off the cliff. To whom's benefit? Are these 'leaders' even elected? No. Why would you trust an unelected person to bide your concerns when the results make no logical sense for the.....betterment of all? I'll just stop there. I only wish to apply to the Reason left in the dark.
Oh, just a random thought, though an 'important' one?
Uh, yeah.....

Just had a huge family reunion on a cruise ship.
We then had two family parties with lots of ladies who know how to dance.
There were about 70 of us.
This seems uncommon 'these' days for.....no good reason.
Take back your life, your self, your family.
It is for One Good Reason.

Truth is not fixed in stone; it Is.
Peace peopleZ


[edit on 26-7-2010 by Perseus Apex]

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by solomons path

I don't have any problem with federal authorities enforcing the federal law. Fact is, I do wish they would put the national guard on the boarder, and secure the boarder.

But they're not, and it looks like they don't plan to. What do you suggest while people in ARIZONA are dying, and other States are falling apart in many areas.?

I don't like the agenda of Arizona. I don't like the politics of the people who wrote the law, I don't like the scope and lack of training the local law enforcement is receiving.

Agenda of Arizona? You mean....enforcing a law which Federal authorities refuse to enforce?

Politics of the people who 'wrote' the law. Firstly, prove they "WROTE" it, secondly prove they were anything other than a special interest groups which aided at an 'advisory' level...I'll give a listen on that.

Lack of training? Ummm they've been at this almost same exact enforcement for two years now already. The only difference is the enforcement side. They're used to the almost the same exact protocols and have been discussing, implementing, carrying out almost all the same things.

But apparently there is something wrong with me not liking the neo nazi agenda. I guess I must be wrong for not goose stepping in line with the rest of the heard down in Arizona. Sure the law was written by white supremacists, but dang it, I am a white guy, so I must just go along with it and support it.

As far as who helped write the law, is it's own separate issue. But can you state ONE LINE in the law that is categorically "Neo Nazi"?

Still, doesn't it shock anyone else that people that are so down on cops here on ATS are the same ones cheering them in the wake of this law?

Doesn't that seem a bit hypocritical?

Most people I know are 'down' on bad cops, which there are plenty. But you're arguing a fallacy that

1) ALL ATS members who support this law, must be the same ones 'downing cops'

2) They are not mutually exclusive

3) If you hate cops, you should not support this law (????????)

4) Cops and this law are not mutually exclusive.


Terrible argument you have and not well thought out.





[edit on 25-7-2010 by Prove_It_NOW]

reply to post by EnkiCarbone

Also, In any other country, you are asked by police constantly where you're from and if you're in that country legally. You're often asked for your papers / passports. Are we supposed to be special now? This isn't about "Police State", so quit crying like a little girl. Your little wishy washy rights jive doesn't fly straight.

That's a crock of BULL!

I have been to England twice in my life, not a single time other than the person at customs has anyone EVER asked to see my paperwork.

As for your little experiment. Hell no, I live in Michigan, if I quit my job, there's a good chance I WONT get another job for a very long time, doesn't matter that I am a white guy, the economy and job market here suck!

I mean if you want to give up your 4th Amendment protection against unwarranted searches and seizures that's fine, don't ask me to do the same.

You want to live in a police state, you want white supremacist groups writing your laws, that's on you, but don't blame me when all of a sudden you aren't in the group they find acceptable anymore.

reply to post by Animusmors



This is just a massive problem. About 5 years ago, I worked for one of the largest printing firms in the US. This company has always had a cultural diversity, and has been known to hire illegals in just about every one of their Wisconsin plants.

At one point, I was in a meeting with out Plant Manager, and I relayed the problems many supervisors and leads were having with communication. The answer: "We offer Spanish classes! We'll even pay you $20 if you complete one!". When I asked him if they offered the Spanish only speaking "employees" ENGLISH classes... he told me he "Of course not" and said he didn't like my attitude.

It seems to me, if I go to their third world craphole and try to find a job, I'm going to have to know the language, and I will try damned hard to be fluent in it before even trying. I do not expect them to conform to my standards, I'm in their home. I guess I have a "bad attitude" for expecting the same courtesy! What the hell was I thinking?

reply to post by Night Star

There are signs everywhere in Spanish, not because of Africans, Not because of Asians or anyone else.

Not because of Hispanics either.

Businesses would advertise to devil and in any language as long as they can make a quick buck.

In the cheap housing communities around here there are more Hispanics than any other culture.

Do you live in a predominantly Hispanic city? sounds like it.

Some tidbits of thought to chew on.

Would you let your children being watched by an "illegal" with NO paperwork as to who they really are?

Would you want illegals roaming the streets driving without insurance? If you don't mind that, you also won't mind the deductible the insurance will tack on while "finding" the guy.

This law says NOTHING about race! It's ANYONE who is illegal, period. If you don't have the right paperwork, you go home. Get the story correct.

For the people who are saying "well, no HUMAN is illegal." Tell that very same thing to the Mexican government and see what they have to say...Ours is very nice by compare. Check others as well.

Do you REALLY want to spit in the very eye of the people who took their time to become a citizen? It's wrong and most of them know it.

The "illegal" law was here long before other laws we uphold so dearly.

If there doesn't need to be any stop to immigration, where then does that leave this country? Mexico #2? Where is the American history or culture going to go?

To allow them to come here only hurts them in the longrun. If not allowed to come here, maybe they would invest more time in the country in which they live and improve their living conditions?

While working "jobs that no one else wants", the average illegal worker sends 1/3 of his/her pay "home." Thus, exporting more money from our country.

When you go to take your child to the hospital, just remember, your wait-time is going to be much longer. You asked for it if you're against the AZ law. I'm in FL and it's already horrible (and a bit unfair) imo.

Sooner or later, more jobs will require you to speak the language, and soon after that it would be expected that the workers become the owners. This would be fine if they themselves operated under racial laws used for our own countrymen.

Besides, making these people "legal" is an Obama/democrat tactic. He can't possibly get the "white" vote ever again like he did. He needs this to have a chance. An once BO is out of office, likely so will the rest of the Demos, so they will follow.


This isn't about racism one bit. It's about trying to save this country from becoming another "Mexico." Some people are too blind to see that it's a doomed path. Do the figures and numbers before talking so quickly, they won't lie.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by Xcathdra

Let's see, a cop can pretty much make up any reason they want to after the fact for the rape of a person's 4th Amendment right. So basically this new law gives cops carte blanche to pillage the 4th Amendment rights of every single citizen in Arizona.

Source please?

Way to give police absolute authority Arizona!

So it works like this, they will just go around and whomever they feel like they will pat down and take the ID off of. If you happen to be illegal, they will of course justify the stop somehow and deport the illegal, if you are a citizen, they will make up whatever reason they have to in order to get your ID off of you.

Someone as ignorant about this law as you should NOT speak so loudly about it. But what else does someone who is full of fallacious arguments going to do.....right?

Don't worry though, the right wing hates that particular Constitutional Amendment anyway.

"Right Wing"...."Left Wing".....who's counting anymore? Maybe you should get out of the right/left fallacy and join logic and reason over hyperbole and labels. It might help. Give it a whirl.

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by EnkiCarbone

 

Also, In any other country, you are asked by police constantly where you're from and if you're in that country legally. You're often asked for your papers / passports. Are we supposed to be special now? This isn't about "Police State", so quit crying like a little girl. Your little wishy washy rights jive doesn't fly straight.

That's a crock of BULL!

I have been to England twice in my life, not a single time other than the person at customs has anyone EVER asked to see my paperwork.

As for your little experiment. Hell no, I live in Michigan, if I quit my job, there's a good chance I WONT get another job for a very long time, doesn't matter that I am a white guy, the economy and job market here suck!

I mean if you want to give up your 4th Amendment protection against unwarranted searches and seizures that's fine, don't ask me to do the same.

You want to live in a police state, you want white supremacist groups writing your laws, that's on you, but don't blame me when all of a sudden you aren't in the group they find acceptable anymore.

Actually its not Bull.. In addition to the countries established laws on immigration, their are UN protocols attached as well so their is a foundation for some of this stuff.

The argument is, if you comit a crime in England, their Law Enforcement would be sking you for your papers, as the law here requires. As in England, if you enter this country illegaly and dont get caught, then like in England, no one will bother you. That is until you comit a crime, or the authorities figure out you are here illegaly.

Again, your view that this law is nothng more than a dragnet is ridiclous. Absolutely nothing changes except for local authorities having the ability to detain on immigration violations. These people will still have their day in court.

What exactly is the problem with this?

And again, please learn how your rights work. The 4th amendment does NOT apply to the individual.. It applies to the Government.

[edit on 26-7-2010 by Xcathdra]

[edit on 26-7-2010 by Xcathdra]

[edit on 26-7-2010 by Xcathdra]

Originally posted by whatukno
reply to post by EnkiCarbone

You want to live in a police state, you want white supremacist groups writing your laws, that's on you, but don't blame me when all of a sudden you aren't in the group they find acceptable anymore.

That's odd because the Arizona Law SB 1070 and HB 2162 are IDENTICAL to all previous Federal laws before it, and were taken from Federal Law with respect to SUPREME COURT decisions on the issue.

Maybe your beef is with the Feds after all? And not the so called "Neo Nazis"?

And while you're at it, call every President since Roosevelt, all their cabinet members, hundreds of congresspeople since 1980's, Millions of voters since 1930's and their district leaders........"Neo Nazis".

These laws were here WAY before SB 1070. Just because you're ignorant of that fact and are hand waiving and ranting because you perceive this as "NEW STUFF ZOMG"....doesn't mean it is.

Snap out of it.

Point blank....SB 1070 and HB 2162 are going into effect within THIS WEEK.

And I'm going to pull up a lawn chair and eat popcorn with a smile on my face while sipping a bottle of Chianti in honor of my Grandfather.

And then I'll wake up with a hangover and puke when I realize they're all flooding here to California and this place is going to go down the toilet even more.

Arizona has the brass for it.....California...bunch of cowards.

Comparison between American and Mexican Immigration Laws:


Directory.com.mx - Mexican Immigration Comparison

Quick Facts - American / Mexican Immigration Laws

I've lived here in south/central New Mexico for almost 20 years. We have here what we call 'Check Points'. Even if you cross the border you will be stopped approximately 30- 40 miles in state.
At these check points, LEOs will ask you if you are a U.S. citizen and have asked me 'trick questions' about my hometown to verify my citizenship.

I look at Arizona's law as the same thing we do here except, for them to ask you if you're a U.S. citizen, you have to give them reasonable doubt
of breaking the law.


MESSAGE FOR IMMIGRANTS-

The Australian Prime Minister does it again! He sure isn't backing down

on his hard line stance and one has to appreciate his belief in

the rights of his native countrymen.

A breath of fresh air to see someone lead.

I wish some leaders would step up in the USA.

This man should be appointed King of the World.

Truer words have never been spoken.

It took a lot of courage for this man to speak what he had to say

for the world to hear. The retribution could be phenomenal,

but at least he was willing to take a stand on his and Australia 's

beliefs.


Prime Minister Kevin Rudd - Australia

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday

to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to

head off potential terror attacks.

Separately, Rudd angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday

by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques.

Quote:

"IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT.

Take it or leave it. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether

we are offending some individual or their culture.

Since the terrorist attacks on Bali,

we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians."

"This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles,

trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom."

"We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese,

Japanese, Russian, or any other language.

Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society... Learn the language!"

"Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing,

political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women,

on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented.

It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools.

If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part

of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture."

"We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why.

All we ask is that you accept ours,

and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us."

This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE,

and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this.

But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about

Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian Beliefs, or Our Way of Life,

I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,

'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'."

"If you aren't happy here then LEAVE.

We didn't force you to come here.

You asked to be here.

So accept the country YOU accepted."


Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves in the USA,
we will find the courage to start speaking and voicing the same truths.
If you agree please SEND THIS ON and ON, to as many people as you know.



[edit on 26-7-2010 by geo1066]

reply to post by Prove_It_NOW


Hmmmmm, the Arizona Bureau of Land Management BLM(Federal ?authority?)just attempted to take one of my mining claims through a procedural flaw on their part when the claim was paid a year in advance. You see the flaw resides in some recently added fine print to the 'process'. BLM expected myself to 'visit' the claim this year to keep the claim. I have already paid for the claim till 2011. This is a clear case of fraud and most probably an inside operation. I advised a BLM litigator to look into the issue (and multiple other recent lawsuits about this very same issue) since I was not even 'informed' as per my legal right of any changes or policies regarding 'visiting' a mine claim when it has been prepaid for the next year. This is a good example of a run-on sentence so I've been told.

If there are multiple lawsuits concerning a simple issue such as this then there is a problem. I told the BLM lawyer to Fix the obvious problem. This is your job. You work for the 'people', not some faceless, litigating pencil pusher who is obviously conning the people out of assets. The intended benefactor is the Fed itself, the faceless entity, for NO GOOD REASON. True leaders and leadership has no reason to hide. They can't hide from themselves in the present or their End. There is a Federal attack on Arizona at the time. This is obvious. Clean up 'YOUR' state. It belongs to U. Make sure the Feds don't pick their own DOJ'oke judge to hear 'your' case either. I understand it never worked out in the end for neither party. Maybe I'm just getting ahead of myself here, sometimes I do that, with good intention. This is what matters but you know this. Yes, you do. Take back 'YOUR' rights or be a 'subject'.

If amnesty takes place, the country will cease to exist by design, not a good one. Again, alex jonas is right on spot here.

Don't let these things slide folks.
Fight or flight?
Where to?

I flew to Arizona for a reason.
I kind of like it there.
There are some Good folks there; the legal ones, who know the outdoors, respect their neighbors and just know how to party. Lots of 'space' too. That's important you know. All the folks who live in cities, at least most of the year are stressed.....for know good reason. This is by poor design. Well it is all man-made and far from nature, that Of the Creator. Makes sense, though not good sense.


[edit on 26-7-2010 by Perseus Apex]