RAP: Tim Turner of Restore America Plan is now the Interim President of New Republic of United State

Originally posted by whatukno
You have to understand people like gwydionblack just want an excuse to go around and kill people. They are desperate for any excuse whatsoever to start their pathetic little civil war, and they don't really care what the outcome is.

Now you are seriously twisting peoples' words around.

Again, no one said anything about killing people or starting a civil war. The concept of this is to restore the government as peacefully and quietly as possible.

Originally posted by cupocoffee
Now you are seriously twisting peoples' words around.

Again, no one said anything about killing people or starting a civil war. The concept of this is to restore the government as peacefully and quietly as possible.

So a military backed effort to take my vote away from me is going to happen peacefully is it? I cannot wait to hear how.

reply to post by Adevoc Satanae


Oh yes of course, your vote is important, but it has become clear to many that the US has problems that go far beyond anything that could be fixed by mere voting.

When your country is run by what basically amounts to an organized crime gang, the CIA/Federal Reserve syndicate, voting in a fresh batch of puppets and patsies to be blackmailed, bribed and bought off by that crime gang accomplishes very little.

Tell me, what has your duly elected CIA puppet du jour done for you lately? Oh that's right, nothing at all.

Maybe that's one of the reasons why the white hat factions in the military are trying to get rid of him.

Enjoy the show everybody

Have the people of the RAP...been in contact with the King concerning their plans?

If not, then this is bull#. 100%

People need to start showing some respect for that which is far greater than them.

I am personally offended by this type of talk.

Until these people bring forth the tribute, ain't nothing going to happen. And that's a promise.

The nerve of you people after all that he's had to go through and all you think about is stroking your own ego's...well the King wants his ego stroked, too.

[edit on 27-7-2010 by bruxfinn]

De Facto Law:A typical practice that is not specifically enumerated by law.

For some reason Cornell Law doesn't have an entry for de jure... other law websites do though.

wiki de jure

De jure (in Classical Latin de iure) is an expression that means "concerning law", as contrasted with de facto, which means "concerning fact".

The terms de jure and de facto are used instead of "in principle" and "in practice", respectively, when one is describing political or legal situations.

In a legal context, de jure is also translated as "concerning law". A practice may exist de facto, where for example the people obey a contract as though there were a law enforcing it yet there is no such law. A process known as "desuetude" may allow de facto practices to replace obsolete laws. On the other hand, practices may exist de jure and not be obeyed or observed by the people.

The law is the constitution. The constitution is 'in principle', it is the ideal state of a federal government agreed upon as a contract between the free people and the Congress. De jure.


Contract

An agreement creating obligations enforceable by law. The basic elements of a contract are mutual assent, consideration, capacity, and legality. In some states, the element of consideration can be satisfied by a valid substitute. Possible remedies for breach of contract include general damages, consequential damages, reliance damages, and specific performance.

reply to post by beebs


Wow...you guys are really smart...let me test the limits of your intelligence.

If the Constitution is the de Jure, as is clearly stated in your post.
What then would be the de facto counterpart of the Constitution?

If you answer this question incorrectly, no RAP for you.
If you answer the Government, its no wonder why you people will never achieve your goals in life.

OK, here you go. www.usavsus.info...

Also, we no longer have the Original 13th Amendment....

The Original Thirteenth Article of Amendment To
The Constitution For The United States

The Original 13th Amendment
This Article of Amendment, ratified in 1819 and which just "disappeared" in 1876, added an enforceable strict penalty, i.e., inability to hold office and loss of citizenship, for violations of the already existing constitutional prohibition in Article 1, Section 9, Clause 8 on titles of nobility and other conflicts of citizenship interest, such as accepting emoluments of any kind for services or favors rendered or to be rendered, and is particularly applicable today in the 21st Century as government is increasingly FOR SALE to the highest bidder, as foreign and multinational corporations and individuals compete to line the pockets of politicians and political parties to accommodate and purchase protection or privilege, i.e. honors, for their special interests.

www.apfn.org...

Understand now? De Jure= legal, real De Facto=illegal un-real

reply to post by bruxfinn

What then would be the de facto counterpart of the Constitution?

The corporation. Obviously this is a gross oversimplification, it is a very complex web.

memory.loc.gov...

www.heritage.org...


U.S. Code

(15) “United States” means—
(A) a Federal corporation;
(B) an agency, department, commission, board, or other entity of the United States; or
(C) an instrumentality of the United States.

I don't pretend to be an expert in these matters(like a lawyer), only to know what the claims of the movement are.

i've been cutting out celebrities' faces from magazines and pasting them on a large piece of paper, then indicating their title/position underneath (basically using my natural reasoning ability to ascertain whether angelina jolie would make a better supreme court justice or surgeon general or whether lady ga-ga would excel at protocol over health and human services) ... ultimately creating the largest and most beautiful celebrity administration any organization/government has ever seen. and i assume, since we are all so into celebrity culture, that no one would really have a legitimate problem were this cabinet of camp to emerge into power. won't someone please initiate a thread describing my impending revolution of supernova starshine?

Originally posted by beebs
reply to post by ProjectJimmy

 

Well there is one thing you can do now that you could not when under our king, you can vote. Try it, you might like the power to elect the people that run your nation.

Look I really do not like the Sovereign Citizens Movement, but you know I really did not have an opinion on it until I spent a month traveling across the United States meeting them, learning their ideas and theories. The people that are declaring this "interim government" are flatly and completely wrong in their interpretation of United States history and law, that's the long and short of it.

I also cannot stand the argument that I hear all of the time on here that since the United States has rebelled once that it would be a good idea to do so again. You also used nuclear weapons before, and at that time it probably saved millions of lives, it doesn't mean it's a good idea to just keep doing it.

Let's be clear about something here: My "better idea" is to vote, not to declare yourselves independent or in rebellion. The simple fact that the people whom have done this are not in jail yet shows that the government of the United States simply doesn't care or see their movement as a threat, that is all.

For this simple reason, until such time as any action is taken by either party involved, the RAP is no different than the crazy man on the street-corner telling people he's Napoleon.

Well, we can vote - but the legitimacy of the voting institution is in question, IMO.

And also: Electoral College

The election for President and Vice President is not a direct election by United States citizens. Citizens vote for electors, representing a state, who are the authorized constitutional participants in a presidential election. In early U.S. history, some state laws delegated the choice of electors to the state legislature. Electors are free to vote for anyone eligible to be President, but in practice pledge to vote for specific candidates and voters cast ballots for favored presidential and vice presidential candidates by voting for correspondingly pledged electors.

Mind you, that is just the Prez and VP, though.

Who really makes the big decisions?

And your comment about Nukes is out of nowhere - it does not relate in any way to restoring a government out of line. I burnt my hand once getting too close to a fire... doesn't mean I should do that again.

I think the gov't does care about the movement because they know that the people in the movement are studying legalese and the law. But who in the gov't is caring? This is a huge corporation(that we call the gov't) that is very compartmentalized.

A cop that pulls you over will be overwhelmed with the information, but a well placed judge by a (hardly) elected Prez could be there to strike down something like this in case a citizen happened to gain enough steam to challenge the corporation's authority and power.

De jure and de facto ARE real legal concepts.

When the de facto corporation is way out of line and at a critical mass of tyrannical power, wouldn't the best nonviolent way to slay the beast be by opting out of the system through legal and contractual means?

[edit on 26-7-2010 by beebs]

Alright, first, is the Electoral College system constitutional? Yes, that means it's not legally dubious in your country. Just because you don't like something does not make it illegal.

So your argument about that is just some hot air there.

Secondly, no my comment about nuclear attack was not out of line, I was illustrating the point that because something is a good idea in one set of circumstances is not always a good idea in another situation.

I don't think it was ever a good idea for you to burn your hand.

Thirdly, yes your legal terms you stated are in fact legitimate legal concepts but not in the context the RAP is using them, unless they are in open rebellion from the United States. If the group is in open rebellion, they should state such as a matter of legal principal.

Finally, does anyone else see the amazing strategic idiocy of announcing this sort of thing that the RAP did publicly at this point? If it is legit, and I really don't think it is, they have fully tipped their hand to their enemy. This is not how anyone is supposed to conduct a military operation, ever.

reply to post by beebs


Doesn't matter that if you are an expert.

The de facto counterpart to the Constitution is the People.

Like I said...it's no surprise that so many people do not have a chance...they actually believe that a machine, the government, is more real than the people that built it.

The constitution exists because of the people and the government exists because of the constitution.

Correct.

It's not the constitution exists because of the government and the people exist because of the constitution.

Incorrect.

The Constitution is a creation of the People...the Constitution is not a creation of the Government.

Originally posted by cupocoffee

Originally posted by Emilyh

If the military was planning a coup, LAST thing they would need are these people. If a military coup does ever take place, it'll happen quietly, quickly, and not having a puppet head that runs its mouth on the internet looking for donations.

They are not planning a coup, they are restoring the government to Constitutional law, two entirely different things.

They are not out to kill anyone, they are not planning a coup, they are not trying to start a civil war. They are restoring the government as quietly and lawfully and peacefully as they can, that is what you need to understand.

What you need to understand is that you haven't the slightest clue as to what a coup actually is. Until you learn its meaning, anything you say on the issue is null and void.

reply to post by weedwhacker


Because NOBODY said anything bad about Bush, huh? Bush was the most loved president ever, huh?

I'm tired of the corruption of this current government being ignored because Bush was bad, too. Maybe a large chunk of people were too late to step up, but does that mean any changes should stop?

It is some kind of fallacy, if I was a philosophy major I'm sure I could point it out. Straw man, red herring, whatever, it's a fallacy.

It's the same crap we hear about The Tea Party (RIP), when the REAL Tea Party started during Bush's reign of terror. People get too caught up in the Red Vs. Blue or (sadly) the Black Vs. White to see that Obama is just an extension of Bush that is better a public speaking. Same ol', same ol'.

Originally posted by Emilyh
What you need to understand is that you haven't the slightest clue as to what a coup actually is. Until you learn its meaning, anything you say on the issue is null and void.

Okay fine then, then it's a coup; a peaceful coup where no one kills anyone and the bad guys are brought to justice by military supported citizen grand juries.

Oh, the horror!

*shudders*

Originally posted by TheFinalTruth14
Obama is just an extension of Bush that is better a public speaking. Same ol', same ol'.

I agree that Obama is just a third Bush term with a few minor, insignificant differences, but the solution to that is most certainly not a bunch of dudes hanging out in mommy's basement making plans to overthrow an elected president and Congress.

reply to post by Emilyh


especially when it seems likely they failed high school government and their so-called expertise in anything governmental (and especially the constitution) is the bits and pieces they've picked up from their local militia's facebook page or else the turner diaries.

I'll give RAP an "E" for effort, but I don't see this movement going anywhere.

I suspect their organization has already been infiltrated. The Feds know exactly what they are up to.

They will eventually be arrested as "domestic terrorists."

reply to post by autowrench


That amendment did not "disappear". It never got ratified. It is not 'the original 13th amendment' because it is not an amendment.

There are other proposed amendments that haven't been ratified. They are not the 'original nnth amendment', they are just failed proposals.

Period.

Yes, I know that a book exists in Texas that lists this amendment as number 13. Errors do occur you know. The publisher made a mistake, that's all. By the way, did you know that Dewey beat Truman in a landslide in 1948?

Update:

nesaranews.blogspot.com...

We are now have a 3 ring circus going on and many are confused.
Disinfo agencies cherish confusion.
I do not so let's see if I can summarize what is going on with circus ring 1 to the best of my understanding.

Hague Court arraignment of the Bad Guys

I rec'd 3 separate Skype messages about this (This is a Real Time News Blog) and decided to post my short alert on the blog. It was getting close to going viral on the net. I don't make BS up, just relaying the intel. And I then waited to see what comes in!

I rec'd more information which explains what is happening. The entire crew of Bad Guys is being brought up on charges per the illegal war activities against other nations, illegal drug running, violations against humanity, illegal financial transactions and illegal blockage of settlements. Chris Story (A credible source) has exposed most of this and now disappeared. I would like to think he is being hid and protected but I also am concerned about his life - we don't know yet.

[edit on 28-7-2010 by cupocoffee]

Has Heroic Reporter Christopher Story of worldreports.org Fame Been Murdered?