Christianity and its flawed concept of god.

Originally posted by Valeri
reply to post by ViewFromTheStars

 

I see you are NOT familiar with NDE's then if you are asking such questions. the beauty of NDE's is that everyone realizes that your reality is WITHIHN you, you will get whatever YOU believe in and concentrate on.

Religious people(on the stage before they realize that they are infinite souls and the reality of existence,because if you didn't know souls don't immeidately remember it all,it's a process of steps after you die as well to get out of the "identity" you jsut were for 70+years or whatever),so during the time when they still believe in the stuff they believed in as HUMANS, they will see what they intend on seeing, Jesus included. Did you know that atheists have also seen simply their spiritual teachers,who confirmed to them that there is no ONE GOD and no Jesus either. isn't that curious? Not really,because you create your own reality. beyond death, you encompass your true self,your consciousness and within it anything and everything you believe in will come true.(UNTIL you snap out of the temporary identity beliefs you held as a humanm gradually)

I just recommend reading the near-deat.com site under the hell, void, jesus etc topics.All the answers to your questions are there.in much better detail.

Just really take the time to read this : www.near-death.com... - hell is a state of MIND,not a real physical place,nor a spiritual place,it is simply a state of your own mind. YOU create hell, nobody does it. Each persons hell is different, it's mostly never fire and brimstone btw,though fundamental christians create exactly THAT version for themselves,since they believe in THAT,and they fear it,so that is exactly the manifestation of their own fear and ignorance.They punish themselves,because since they fear it,they obviously feel they are meant to go to Hell then. No person with a clean conscience will fear hell lol

[edit on 7/25/2010 by Valeri]

How am I not 'familiar' with NDEs when I just told you that I have researched quite a few of them? Is it because I don't believe the same thing you do? Very bad premise to base that off of if that is the case. And yes, I do respectfully disagree with you on many levels. But that aside, you still have not answered my questions.

Originally posted by Valeri
If you guys are fine with some antropomorphic entity that decides FOR YOU where you go after death and whatnot, and who decides based on his OWN RULES, so what you are describing is the mirror image of Adolf hitler, Adolf also decided over the fate of people based on his own rules and opinions, if Adolf saw it fit for you to be burnt alive,that is exactly what he did to you.

Really? Really? You're equating the God of the Jews with Hitler? Wow, I've seen a lot, but I've never seen such callousness, insensitivity and cruelty to people espoused in so few words. To say that the God that the Jewish people hold holy is equivalent to Adolph Hitler is beyond stupid. Even if I didn't believe in ANY God, I would never be so callous.

However, I do believe in God, and I believe you may have committed what Christ called "the unforgivable sin," blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Good luck explaining that one when the time comes.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd

the flaw in your logic in trying to assume that a god would behave like a human. Which is another problem alot of Christians seem to suffer from.

How is that a flaw in my logic?

How do you know how God would respond?

How should God respond?

Originally posted by dusty1
reply to post by TiM3LoRd

 

the flaw in your logic in trying to assume that a god would behave like a human. Which is another problem alot of Christians seem to suffer from.

How is that a flaw in my logic?

How do you know how God would respond?

How should God respond?

Well obviously god isn't human. That would defeat the point of being called god. So as to how god would react that's easy. God would react in a way far superior to any human. To expect any less is a shortcoming on the believers imagination. If I can see humans performing deeds and reacting to situations better than a supposed god then I question the nature of the so called god.


Do you understand what I'm saying. God incapable of making a mistake or doing wrong. So if I see an action or statement I don't think is right it puts into question my definition of the so called god. My god needs to be perfect. I will except nothing less. In order to strive for perfection I need a role model. I can't follow a god I feel is lacking ANYTHING.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


i've always considered the phrase "I AM" to relate to something equivalent to your avatar name. He's identifying himself as master of Time. To be everlasting, or ever existing, or immortal, suggests you can see all points in time.

since time has no power over you, you aren't constrained by it and not being constrained by it, suggests any point is viewable.

[edit on 25-7-2010 by undo]

reply to post by undo


Yes god is timeless massless spaceless. To put human limitations on god I believe is a lack of the human not god. And as such if a god is portrayed as having human falabilities that in my opinion is not god. Unfortunately my standards for a supreme being run a bit higher than that.

reply to post by tim3lord


you are not alone with this line of thought..

why would Jesus be the Bright & Morning Star competing with Lucifer for the title of Morning Star?

no preacher has EVER answered this question for me...

reply to post by reeferman


i can.

it's a title of ownership. he inherited it when the other guy lost it.

Originally posted by tim3lord
The first thing that gets me about the biblical god is the fact that for one god seems so HUMAN??? Why would god be jealous?? thats such a primitive emotion. why would a supreme being have its creation jumping through hoops like a bunch of circus clowns???? (see 1) and why is more than half the world NOT ASKING THESE QUESTIONS??? are they that satisfied with the answers they get? or are they too proud to admit they got sucked in and scammed? (see 2) why would god who is supposed to be all knowing put adam and eve to a test and be surprised with the outcome?? how in the hell can anything surprise god??? doesnt that defeat the purpose of being all knowing?? (see 3) oh and please dont copy and paste bible verses to me.

you cant defend a flawed god with his own"supposed" work. if the source is flawed who cares about the message. defeats the purpose of looking up to a divine being. this whole do as i say and not as i do attitude is what im talking about. the implicit hypocrisy is also something i want explained. (see 4)

looking forward to seeing if anybody can enlighten me on these questions.

thanks in advance

1) Human writers described how they viewed God in the only terms they understood.

I do not see, " a supreme being have its creation jumping through hoops like a bunch of circus clowns." at all. This is your imagination.

2) Most people are wrongly taught not to question God or anything in the bible because most so called Christian church leaders want to have their little power trips and dominate their 'flock'. Many popular churches are guilty of this.. but it's because they do not know the truth of the matter, if they did, they would not act like they do.

The people who really want to know the truth ask people like these and get wrong answers. Sadly, there are more false self seeking "christians" on earth than real Christians and they are found in the largest most popular churches.

True Christians from real Christians churches are taught to question their view of God and what the bible says about god.

"sucked in and scammed" - Again, this is your imagination or belief. The True God never sucked in and scammed anyone. Man only does this to Man. Do not blame God for what Man does to Man.

3) Some Christians believe the story of Adam and Eve to be true word for word as written. Others like myself believe there may be some root truth to the story but that the exact details are not told because they were forgotten over the years. The bible story was only verbally transferred for many generations before it was ever written down. The story could literally be tens of thousands of years old. In either case, it matters very little as the story is there to show us the concepts of the origin of Man as perceived by these peoples. What you take from it, and choose to believe you do by faith, it is a personal thing between you and your God.

4) Sure I can defend God with these words from the bible. Here is how. The exact wording and all of the stories being literally true as written or not does not matter one bit once you understand what this believing in God thing is all about. What God inspired truth there is in the Bible is enough to reveal a path that changes lives for the better.

Most of the stories are there to teach us certain things about how Gods spiritual laws work here on Earth. They do not have to be 100% historically true for them to be valid.

There are spiritual laws in the bible for believers that if correctly employed do work to effect positive change in peoples lives. This then is the reality of God to the people who experience this. The bible says God comes alive through the written word.. not just that but living that word. No one can experience any truth of God unless they have lived the words of the spiritual laws and examined first through them the workings of God in a persons life.

You say no one questions these things.. concerning this.. even the bible itself says to question it... It says try the spirits by the spirits and the words written are spirit and they are life - meaning just what I said above.. test them out for yourself to see if they are true and if they work.. if you employ these spiritual laws correctly, they simply do work.

This is the reason why you cannot understand these things you read about God and the stories. You have not tested the words by living and doing them - But for those who have, they can say that God is very real.





[edit on 26-7-2010 by JohnPhoenix]

Originally posted by MAC269
reply to post by TiM3LoRd

 

Dear TiM3LoRd

Oh dear and where do you think the story of Adam and Eve comes from???

It comes from the same Sumerian text in fact the exact same text. With Adam and Eve as with many things you are only getting half the story.

Now lets see what was this thread about anyway, oh yes “Christianity and its flawed concept of god.”
Perhaps it should be about the flawed concept of Christianity. Let me tell you a few lines about that.

A Catholic priest goes on a round trip of about a 100KM to give MASS at a Catholic Church, in a European Language. This Priest is the director of an Orphanage that saves the lives of orphans with HIV/AIDS and cares for them. The congregation all know this.

Do you know how much this congregation have given to this cause???

Now let me see I will have to get my calculator out, oh wait no I will not it is easy.

NOT ONE PENNY.

These people have the bare faced cheek to attend Church.

im not sure what your trying to say here but if Christianity is the following of christ who is the living embodiment of the old testament god and if the old testament god has flaws then the whole house of cards comes crashing down. so NO it shouldnt be the flawed concepts of Christianity because Christianity only exists because of the followings of the so called god. if the im not saying Christianity per say is flawed im saying their concept of god is too limited and thus flawed. im saying god should stand for more than just asking people to worship him like some low self esteem movie star that needs the love and adoration of their fans and followers. i mean seriously god made this entire reality why would it care if we worshiped a gold cow or a statue of mary or a painting of jesus or a bowl a cold soup. its all god. we are all its creation. god is the dreamer and we are the dream.

reply to post by TiM3LoRd


i think i can answer that question as well.

practicality. no dilly dallying, work, work, give, give, help, help. rest on saturday. rinse wash repeate. it was a massive work force, who provided for the advance of civilization via hard work and the accumulation of knowledge. no time to create and worship art works. no time to get buzzed on hallucinogenic mushrooms, no time for wham bam thank you ma'am. what time was alloted to the construction of holy relics, like the ark of the covenant, was combined with practical application. the beauty of the piece only hid the other functional aspects of it, as a way to mask the extent of accumulated knowledge it represented. at least, that's my theory.

there's a thread around here somewhere, where the op advanced the theory that the patriarchs of the bible often went on in their advanced years to be pharaohs of egypt, particularly during the period in which the hyskos (hibiru or hibru, think hebrew, were initially called that because they were followers of enlil, at nibru, his temple city on the euphrates river (called nippur today- etymology: nibru, nibbur, nippur) had taken control of a large section of egypt.

i happen to agree with him. i think he's absolutely right, and that the hibru, were the builders of en.lil. they were trained in the art of building temples of various kinds, including ziggurats, mastabas, pyramids and temples like those attached to the pyramids at giza.

they were the original stone masons who built his temples, thusly why he had them rebuild his temple on temple mount, where it was theoretically located in the area, sometime prior to the ante-diluvian flood, how far back, i'm not sure.



[edit on 26-7-2010 by undo]

here they are

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/1f3a4ce12d4e113a.jpg[/atsimg]

they started out as builders in egypt, rose to power, became unpopular, were enslaved to pharaoh, who eventually "chased them out of egypt." (see the exodus)

(p.s. I think Moses was named after the Pharaoh of the time, Ahmose I. )

Hyskos
en.wikipedia.org...


[edit on 26-7-2010 by undo]

Originally posted by The Stache
reply to post by ATSWATCHER

 

I did not state that God gave the Israelites carte blanche to do "what-ever"; my point was that their interpretation of Jehovah, and their belief in their appointed status as the "chosen people", provided the justification to commit these atrocities. The whole issue here is reconciling the atrocities of the OT (the "flawed God") with the idea of the loving Father Jesus spoke of and represented. If a person, or persons, believes that they have a "mandate" from God, or believe their interpretation of God is correct, that can be used to justify all sorts of heinous acts. The list of examples is endless, but here's a few: David Koresh, Charles Manson, and (as a group) the people at Westboro Baptist Church. People that kill abortion doctors or blow up clinics do so because they believe they are carrying out God's wishes. It is in this context that I meant the Israelites believed they could do "what-ever"...in the same way that radical Islam justifies terrorism against infidels. It's in the Quran, Allah commanded it, etc.

U DID say God let them do what ever, by posting this: "Along the way, in order to achieve this deliverance, "their" God would allow them to do whatever was necessary to attain this promise of deliverance"

Are you serious? Come on, amigo! This has been the subject of countless sermons and commentaries. I Googled "NT conflict Peter and Paul" and came up with over 34,000 items! This conflict shaped early Church doctrine: Paul's belief that Gentile Christian converts were not bound to Jewish laws and customs, and Peter's disagreement with that viewpoint. 34,000 Google hits on the subject... www.google.com...

The way U were putting it waz az if Pavlos (Paul) and Petros (Peter) contradicted each other forever, yes in the beginning they had disagrements, but not for long, I waz taking what U were saying az if they disagreed til death.

[edit on 26-7-2010 by ATSWATCHER]

reply to post by TiM3LoRd

God would react in a way far superior to any human. To expect any less is a shortcoming on the believers imagination. If I can see humans performing deeds and reacting to situations better than a supposed god then I question the nature of the so called god.

I would like to tell a story (this time I'll include more detail for you).

A farmer had two sons. One day, the younger son asks for his inheritance, his father agrees, and gives the young man his share.

The young man moves away and proceeds to spend his inheritance on booze and women. Now he's broke, and he discovers that the people he hung out with were only interested in his money. He becomes homeless, and has very little to eat.

He realizes, that he made a mistake, and he would be better off has a hired man working on his father's farm.

The young man returns humbled, and asks his father for a job.

His father see's something different in his son's eyes. He is no longer the ungrateful young man that left the family farm.

His son has grown up.

The father decides to celebrate. He throws a party. He is happy to see his son.

Now, the oldest son hears what has happened and he gets ticked.

He confronts his father. "Your son squandered his inheritance and yer thrown' him a party???". "I've been bustin' my butt on the farm and you never once had a party for me and my friends!"

The father replies.

"All that I have, is yours."

"Your brother was dead, and now he is ALIVE, I had to celebrate."





What do you think of the fathers actions in the story?

Did he do the right thing?






[edit on 26-7-2010 by dusty1]

reply to post by dusty1


i think the father showed compassion and love and im very much aware of this fable. I STILL THINK THAT USING HUMAN ANALOGIES TO DESCRIBE GOD IS REDUNDANT.

do you not understand why? its because god is so much more superior to human. god is the epitome of perfection which is what we should be striving for. unfortunately different people have different opinions of what perfection should be.

Originally posted by TiM3LoRd
reply to post by dusty1

 

i think the father showed compassion and love and im very much aware of this fable. I STILL THINK THAT USING HUMAN ANALOGIES TO DESCRIBE GOD IS REDUNDANT.

do you not understand why? its because god is so much more superior to human. god is the epitome of perfection which is what we should be striving for. unfortunately different people have different opinions of what perfection should be.

Well, I don't think that it's redundant (and I call plagiarism on Dusty, lol) because we need to have a context to put things in. I agree, wholeheartedly, that God is perfection, and it's what we should strive to be, but we need to be realistic and accept that we will always fall short of it.

Jesus' parables and other stories that reflect the values and wisdom that we need to apply to get ourselves on the right path. In the above example, Jesus was showing that materialism and selfishness are the ways of the world and lead to sadness, but that love and forgiveness (in this case, to a repentant and sorrowful son) are what is truly important.

If we leave aside the specifics of any parable, and look at the real message, that's what God is telling us we need to think about. One great example is the Parable of the Shrewd Manager, which a lot of people are confused by, including me, as Jesus seems to be saying that being dishonest is being wise. Since we know that is inconsistent with everything else he's said, we need to look beyond the specifics to the heart of the message, which isn't about dishonesty, but rather about planning and understanding that what we have today means nothing if we don't prepare for tomorrow. The materialism of Earth is pointless, we need to prepare for the Kingdom of God.

Somehow, once you dig in and figure that out, that core point seems to have a bit more behind it within the parable, rather than if Jesus had said "Hey. Stop worrying about the stuff that you have here. Heaven is what you need to plan for." (Of course, he did say that elsewhere in the New Testament, the whole "store your treasures in heaven, where thieves do not steal, etc" bit.)

reply to post by TiM3LoRd

i think the father showed compassion and love and im very much aware of this fable

We can agree on that

I STILL THINK THAT USING HUMAN ANALOGIES TO DESCRIBE GOD IS REDUNDANT.

We can only try to begin, to understand God through stories and illustrations.

The best way to learn and retain information and really get the sense of it, is through stories.

Which advertising do you remember? The one that gives a bunch of statistics or the one that tells a story about a guy who loses a hundred pounds eating sub sandwiches?

Have you ever had a negative opinion of someone, and then later found out that they have similar interests or hobbies as yourself? Or heard a story about something nice they did for someone? You heard part of their story and it had an emotional impact on you.

It is said that God is love. To first be able to show love or put others before oneself, God first had to create others. He literally created love and others to show love to.

But many will start arguing about who created God and miss the whole point.

"Not a sparrow falls to the earth without your Heavenly Father taking note. Do not fear, you are worth more than many sparrows. The very hairs of your head are all numbered."

"Even a mother can forget her own son, yet I, I shall not forget you"


God has to be put into our perspective. Jesus did that.

Unless God is thought of as a loving human father, we cannot begin to understand Him.

reply to post by adjensen

I call plagiarism on Dusty, lol