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Christianity and its flawed concept of god.

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posted on Jul, 25 2010 @ 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by ViewFromTheStars
I have a question for all the athiests but first I want to prefice:


I have a complaint! Where is the question?

Did your train of thought get lost?




posted on Jul, 25 2010 @ 02:37 PM
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I am very familiar with NDEs of all types of sorts but what about the ones with Jesus in them?

Which ones are 'real' and which ones are 'not'?

What about the 'hell' NDEs?


I will check out the ones you linked to.



posted on Jul, 25 2010 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by Valeri
 


"because in essence,YOU ARE GOD"

proclaiming himself to be God.-2Thess2.4



posted on Jul, 25 2010 @ 02:52 PM
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Originally posted by dominicus
reply to post by tim3lord
 

To the OP,
You can look at the Bible as a bunch of authors' opinions about God. In the Old Testament ...many authors where at different spiritual levels of understanding so what they would do is put human charachteristics on God because that was the only thing they knew .......

But the highest level attained was that by Jesus .....so the words of Jesus were most important of everything else in the Bible. Basically Jesus says a few things about God ....that God and his kingdom are within you, that he and God are "One" and that he wishes everyone would have the same "Oneness" that he and God have(Jn 17:21), he says to get into heaven you have to be born again ....which basically means an experience of Ego death.

The Old Testament is mostly just a bunch of Archaic views and human projections onto God. There are some cool mystical things in there, awesome poetry, and symbology like in psalms.

But once Jesus came he changed everything. In the OT they were trying to live by an impossible 800 some odd set of rules that no one can live up to. It was all faith based. Then Jesus comes along and says forget all that ....listen to what I say, go within, have ego death and then you will directly experience God's Oneness the way I do. It becomes sharing in the direct experiences of God ..


.....and when you experience, then you know, which is beyond faith



My feelings exactly. Your post describes exactly what I wanted to say. If I could only add one thing it would be that all these emotions or labels people put on things such as evil, jealousy, pride, greed, and sadness are viewed on the concept of dualism. With a supreme being as God, there is no need for dualism. These so called "negative qualities" are viewed from our human perspective.



posted on Jul, 25 2010 @ 03:11 PM
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reply to post by thomasc83
 


can't forget to throw this in the mix

As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs-Rom11.28

The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them.
-Is11.6

Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads. From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings and peals of thunder. Before the throne, seven lamps were blazing. These are the seven spirits of God.-Rev4.4



posted on Jul, 25 2010 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by ViewFromTheStars
 
I see you are NOT familiar with NDE's then if you are asking such questions. the beauty of NDE's is that everyone realizes that your reality is WITHIHN you, you will get whatever YOU believe in and concentrate on.

Religious people(on the stage before they realize that they are infinite souls and the reality of existence,because if you didn't know souls don't immeidately remember it all,it's a process of steps after you die as well to get out of the "identity" you jsut were for 70+years or whatever),so during the time when they still believe in the stuff they believed in as HUMANS, they will see what they intend on seeing, Jesus included. Did you know that atheists have also seen simply their spiritual teachers,who confirmed to them that there is no ONE GOD and no Jesus either. isn't that curious? Not really,because you create your own reality. beyond death, you encompass your true self,your consciousness and within it anything and everything you believe in will come true.(UNTIL you snap out of the temporary identity beliefs you held as a humanm gradually)

I just recommend reading the near-deat.com site under the hell, void, jesus etc topics.All the answers to your questions are there.in much better detail.

Just really take the time to read this : www.near-death.com... - hell is a state of MIND,not a real physical place,nor a spiritual place,it is simply a state of your own mind. YOU create hell, nobody does it. Each persons hell is different, it's mostly never fire and brimstone btw,though fundamental christians create exactly THAT version for themselves,since they believe in THAT,and they fear it,so that is exactly the manifestation of their own fear and ignorance.They punish themselves,because since they fear it,they obviously feel they are meant to go to Hell then. No person with a clean conscience will fear hell lol

[edit on 7/25/2010 by Valeri]



posted on Jul, 25 2010 @ 03:42 PM
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reply to post by ATSWATCHER
 

ATSWATCHER, I'm certainly willing to answer your questions regarding my posts; that is why I joined ATS, to respond to people's posts. However, the very nature of the subject matter concerning this thread lends itself to viewpoints and opinions of the posters, not the dissemination of "facts." That is why I began by saying this is my take, my understanding, my opinion...not irrefutable facts. That is also why I ended my posts by saying I stayed away from quoting scripture; especially since so many posters only quote scripture, and do not expound on their own thoughts.

So, here are you quotes (questions), and my best attempts to answer them:

1.) No where in the Bible does God EVER say he'll alow the Israelites to do "what-ever" to "attain promise of deliverance" where are U getting this from?

I did not state that God gave the Israelites carte blanche to do "what-ever"; my point was that their interpretation of Jehovah, and their belief in their appointed status as the "chosen people", provided the justification to commit these atrocities. The whole issue here is reconciling the atrocities of the OT (the "flawed God") with the idea of the loving Father Jesus spoke of and represented. If a person, or persons, believes that they have a "mandate" from God, or believe their interpretation of God is correct, that can be used to justify all sorts of heinous acts. The list of examples is endless, but here's a few: David Koresh, Charles Manson, and (as a group) the people at Westboro Baptist Church. People that kill abortion doctors or blow up clinics do so because they believe they are carrying out God's wishes. It is in this context that I meant the Israelites believed they could do "what-ever"...in the same way that radical Islam justifies terrorism against infidels. It's in the Quran, Allah commanded it, etc.

2.)Pharisees, Sadducees started thier own tradition not countined Jewish tradition.

No real disagreement here, just semantics. I was simply referring to the Jewish religious establishment, all those that Jesus was constantly condemning and sparring with. I'm sure you would agree that the Gospels are full of examples of this conflict between Jesus and the Jewish leaders.

3.) Where in the Bible and Christian History did Peter/Paul "contradict" each other?

Are you serious? Come on, amigo! This has been the subject of countless sermons and commentaries. I Googled "NT conflict Peter and Paul" and came up with over 34,000 items! This conflict shaped early Church doctrine: Paul's belief that Gentile Christian converts were not bound to Jewish laws and customs, and Peter's disagreement with that viewpoint. 34,000 Google hits on the subject... www.google.com...



posted on Jul, 25 2010 @ 03:55 PM
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Life is a test.

God gave humans free will. I think this in itself explains a lot. I believe that this life is a test and the hopes of God for this world are born in the hearts of men and woman. It's up to us what we do with our lives and how we impact other peoples lives. We as single individuals, seemingly lost in a sea of billions, make such a profound impact on the world around us that it's almost unbelievable. Open your mind to truth and let your conclusions arise from that base, do this and you will have all of your answers. Knock and the door will be opened for you. Evidence of the hand of God is everywhere, in everything that we look at. Do some research about cymatics, and recurring geometrical patterns in nature. Gaze at the building blocks of life and tell me that there is no builder, I bet you can't.



posted on Jul, 25 2010 @ 04:09 PM
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anybody care to elaborate on what yeshua means when he says he's the cornerstone the builders rejected? the cornerstone of what? builders of what?



posted on Jul, 25 2010 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by tim3lord
1. god seems so HUMAN???
2. Why would god be jealous??
3. why is more than half the world NOT ASKING THESE QUESTIONS???
4. are they that satisfied with the answers they get?
or are they too proud to admit they got sucked in and scammed?
5. why would god who is supposed to be all knowing put adam and eve to a test and be surprised with the outcome??
how in the hell can anything surprise god???
doesnt that defeat the purpose of being all knowing??

the implicit hypocrisy is also something i want explained.

Your answers:
1. God projects an image you can understand. In fact, Jesus was human so we could understand about the love of God for us. Compare it to an anthill about to be run over by a farmer in a tractor. The farmer can talk to the ants all day and they won't understand. The farmer must become an ant temporarily to get the ants to move.
2. Jealousy is not the correct interpretation. Most of the misunderstandings of scriptures are related to poor translation. Original languages and texts do a lot better at conveying the meaning. Jealous here means desiring obedience in worship. He did not want his children wasting their time worshipping dead idols.
3. Oftentimes, you have to know what to ask. For example, would you ask which type of roof was safest in a fire? Would you believe it was wood shake? It is. 95% of fires start inside, and wood shake on slats is the only roofing that will let the fire out so you can breathe and get out alive (when you are asleep is when most deadly fires occur). Smoke alarms are only effective in 25% of fires. See? You didn't know enough to ask the question. Same with religious information.
4. Ignorance is bliss, and most don't read the religious texts enough to be critical of them. Acts shows that the Bereans were not so gullible, and they searched the scriptures to see if what they were being taught by apostles and such were true.
5. I see this question a lot. First, we know that God is all-knowing. Ever go to a class in some subject in school and the teacher asks you a question on the subject? Do you question if the teacher knows the answer or if they are asking you because they don't know the answer themselves? Do you ask the teacher why they are teachers if they don't know the answer? The scriptures show how God teaches us by question/answer and by example. Please do not confuse that with ignorance on God's part.

You're welcome.



posted on Jul, 25 2010 @ 04:25 PM
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Originally posted by undo
anybody care to elaborate on what yeshua means when he says he's the cornerstone the builders rejected? the cornerstone of what? builders of what?


Builders - religious leaders of the Jews
Cornerstone - the basis of the faith, prophecies, and symbols of the Old Testament predicting/developing the faith/coming of Christ.



posted on Jul, 25 2010 @ 04:45 PM
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reply to post by AProphet1233
 

I couldn't put it any better. And I think it's great to have a God jealous for me. And I don't think it's jealousy as we comprehend it. And to say that God has human emotions makes no sense, for all things originated from Him, we are in His image, not tge other way around. There is no way to comprehend how He works, He is of a higher conscience, a divine, omnipotent conscience. I believe people really in touch with themselves and this earth, such as monks, have some type of higher connection with the creator within themselves and this life. He is not some man in white robes, staring down from above us, watching our every move. He is something much greater that one can't even understand His awesome power. He loves us more than we could ever know. People say I'm a fool for believing in Him, but I feel sorry for them, because they don't what it's like to have a relationship with Him. It is greater and purer than anything else. My path to him was not the one most traveled. I once felt there was no God, those were dark times. Give Him a chance, for if you truely seek him, you'll find him. He'll take away your burdens, and you'll feel His presanc



posted on Jul, 25 2010 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by AProphet1233
 

I couldn't put it any better. And I think it's great to have a God jealous for me. And I don't think it's jealousy as we comprehend it. And to say that God has human emotions makes no sense, for all things originated from Him, we are in His image, not tge other way around. There is no way to comprehend how He works, He is of a higher conscience, a divine, omnipotent conscience. I believe people really in touch with themselves and this earth, such as monks, have some type of higher connection with the creator within themselves and this life. He is not some man in white robes, staring down from above us, watching our every move. He is something much greater that one can't even understand His awesome power. He loves us more than we could ever know. People say I'm a fool for believing in Him, but I feel sorry for them, because they don't what it's like to have a relationship with Him. It is greater and purer than anything else. My path to him was not the one most traveled. I once felt there was no God, those were dark times. Give Him a chance, for if you truely seek him, you'll find him. He'll take away your burdens, and you'll feel His presence. You'll never deny Him again



posted on Jul, 25 2010 @ 05:15 PM
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reply to post by TiM3LoRd
 



and to answer your question it would depend on the ego of the man and his perspective


So you won't answer my question?

I didn't ask you to get inside the man's head. I asked if it would be wrong for him to be jealous.


Most reasonable people would think that it would be understandable for a married man to feel jealous, if his wife screwed around with other men.

God entered into a special covenant relationship with Israel.

Israel broke that covenant by serving demon gods, and God was rightfully "jealous".



posted on Jul, 25 2010 @ 05:20 PM
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reply to post by undo
 



the cornerstone of what?


The Christian congregation.

He was the stone rejected by men, but chosen by God.



posted on Jul, 25 2010 @ 06:24 PM
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reply to post by dusty1
 


The problem isn't that I can't answer the question. It's that your question is too open ended. Let me ask you a question. How long is a piece of string? Well ? Oh what's that? You need more details before you can give an accurate answer? How come? it's a simple question. That's why I need more information before I answer your question. Not to mention the flaw in your logic in trying to assume that a god would behave like a human. Which is another problem alot of Christians seem to suffer from.



posted on Jul, 25 2010 @ 06:45 PM
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reply to post by TiM3LoRd
 


good little tidbid on what scripture calls god-

Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?-John10.34



posted on Jul, 25 2010 @ 07:14 PM
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reply to post by Jim Scott
 


No offense but I'm asking about what it says god said and does in the bible. Regardless if it's misinterpretation or not, the fact remains that THAT is what's written in the bible. I'm not interested in what they meant to say. I'm interested in what they DO say. If I point to something as say " hey why does the bible say this about god?" and someone says " oh no what they meant was this" I'm sorry but if that's what they meant why isn't it in the bible in the way you say it's meant to be there. This is another problem with Christianity you can't even agree amongs yourselves what it means. If this isn't a shocking wake up call I don't know what is. I'm not questioning gods motives I'm just saying the god depicted in the bible is one dimensional and simplistic. In my opinion they had to make god simplistic because they were dealing with simple minds. Also to those claiming god needs worship I think that's kind of sad. If I created something and it went off and did it's own thing I wouldn't blame the creation. I would either blame myself for not properly explaining to the creation what I created it for and hope it understands. Or I would realize you can't give something free will and then chastise that free will when it didn't fit my ideals. Kind of pointless and not really free is it. I could go on and on.

Point is I'm not confused as to what I think god is. I know my definition of god. God is infinite without beginning and end a closed loop. Every atom and every planet. The sum of all. Grand beyound comprehension and beyound human capacity to understand. Neither judges us or condems us nomatter what we do. There are humans that show more compassion that the god of the old testament. This in my opinion is a flawed concept of god. Simplistic and lacking dimension.



posted on Jul, 25 2010 @ 07:42 PM
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reply to post by TiM3LoRd
 


jehovah wasn't just one guy. he was at least 3.

an or anu (EL, egyptian amen, the big kahuna, god of the heavens)

en.lil (EL, Lord of the Command, son of Anu, Lord of the Sky, Air, Breath, in charge of all mining and other activities on earth)

en.ki ( EL, Son of or brother of Enlil, the Lord of Command, depending on which text ya read, Lord of the Earth and Water, geneticist and scientist)

at least, that's what the sumerians say.


the name jehovah is composed of 2 words, one of which relates to breath (en.lil havah) and the other which relates to ea (en.ki hayah), who is en.ki - ea. hayah means to be, to exist, another way of saying both parts together is, a living soul or I AM



[edit on 25-7-2010 by undo]



posted on Jul, 25 2010 @ 08:01 PM
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reply to post by TiM3LoRd
 


Dear TiM3LoRd

Oh dear and where do you think the story of Adam and Eve comes from???

It comes from the same Sumerian text in fact the exact same text. With Adam and Eve as with many things you are only getting half the story.

Now lets see what was this thread about anyway, oh yes “Christianity and its flawed concept of god.”
Perhaps it should be about the flawed concept of Christianity. Let me tell you a few lines about that.

A Catholic priest goes on a round trip of about a 100KM to give MASS at a Catholic Church, in a European Language. This Priest is the director of an Orphanage that saves the lives of orphans with HIV/AIDS and cares for them. The congregation all know this.

Do you know how much this congregation have given to this cause???

Now let me see I will have to get my calculator out, oh wait no I will not it is easy.

NOT ONE PENNY.

These people have the bare faced cheek to attend Church.



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