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Christianity and its flawed concept of god.

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posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 10:44 PM
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reply to post by tim3lord
 


There are two parts of the Christian Bible, the Old Testament, which is a Jewish document that is part history, part law, part devotional; and the New Testament -- the Gospels and Epistles that deal with the life, teachings and nature of Jesus Christ.

When you see "Testament", read "Testimony". The Old Testament is a testimony of the ancient prophecies to the coming of the Christ. Its laws, rules and expectations are not applicable to the Christian faith, except as evidenced by Christ in the New Testament. This is not to say that it is to be ignored, but rather that it reflects Jewish theology, not Christian.

As key difference in the three Abrahamic faiths (and many religions) is that Jews come to God through the law, Torah (the first five books of the OT). Muslims come to Allah through the law, in the Quran. Christians come to God through Christ, not through the Bible. The Bible is an important document, which tells us about the divinity and validity of Christ, but that's it. If you read the Bible, follow its direction, but reject Christ, you are not a Christian, and, we believe, you are not reconciled to God.

After much early debate and consternation, it was determined that you did not have to be Jewish to be Christian. This sounds odd today, but as Jesus' mission was solely directed at the Jews, all early Christians were, in fact, Jewish, and tried to continue to live as Jews, obeying the law and so on. However, the exposure and acceptance of the faith in the Gentile world led to the doctrinal determination that Jewish law (specifically circumcision and ritual law) were not a part of the Christian faith.

As a result, aside from fundamentalists, most Christians do not view the Old Testament as an unerring historical text. Certain key doctrines, such as the Ten Commandments, are as much a part of our faith as the original, but most Christians do not believe that the Earth was created in six 24 hour days, that there was a global flood that killed all but Noah and his family, and accept that many of the stories are coloured with a human perspective.

So if you want to complain about a jealous God, you are complaining about God as he is depicted in the Jewish scripture, not the "Christian God".




posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 10:46 PM
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Originally posted by MAC269
reply to post by tim3lord
 


If you are taking about mistakes that GOD made his first that we know of was with woman. As you put it Adam and Eve, well Eve was not the first Lithe was. She was the first wife of Adam and made from the earth as was Adam.


And we know this as fact how? i must have missed that version of the bible in sunday school. and sorry to rain on your parade but god did me and every man a favor when god made women, i would die of boredom on a world populated with just guys.

also why does god need to make humans out of earth. he didnt make the earth out of humans?? why couldnt he use whatever powers he had to make the planets and the animals to make humans why does he need to use earth?

oh and dont say its metaphorical because Christians preach Bible as gospel truth.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 10:48 PM
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Originally posted by TiM3LoRd
reply to post by antonia
 


im sure a supreme being with the capacity to manifest reality has the capabilities to keep its attention on every aspect of the creation. or it wouldnt exist. so im pretty sure the creator knows you and is watching you. or you wouldt exist to post this reply


I see, something akin to willing something into existence to put it simplistically? I've never viewed myself as important so I don't tend to think the creator would see me as such either. Projection, i think that's what they call it



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by TiM3LoRd
 


Dear TiM3LoRd

Try doing some studying, Lithe come from the same text as Adam and Eve early Sumerian.

Study then talk.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 10:53 PM
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reply to post by tim3lord
 


A man has a wife.

This man's wife, starts to flirt with other men.

She commits adultery, with multiple partners.

Would it be wrong for the man to be jealous?






[edit on 24-7-2010 by dusty1]



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 10:54 PM
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Originally posted by TiM3LoRd
reply to post by zroth
 


i understand the concepts you are trying to explain but these are not the traditional christian views. which is what i have contention with. also nothing all knowing can be surprised. its a paradox.


sure. there is no traditional Christianity without a baseline denomination to discuss. there is catholic, Lutheran, LDS, etc.

the paradox is definitely a good point



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 10:56 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


so basically what your saying is "well we Christians kind of take the old testament with a grain of salt. its more of a rough estimation than an actual historic documentation."

problem is you built your house on shaky foundation. if the original story has flaws then all the rest are flawed by definition. if the bible is not a play by play account of what happened as most christians believe it to be then how do you know what is artistic license and whats fact???? this is my fundamental flaw with Christianity. its just not perfect enough for me. if im going to invest my faith in something as big as what i consider god to be it has to be fool proof. divinity is in the details. and if you cant even get the basics right what hope do you have of getting the important things right?



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 11:01 PM
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reply to post by TiM3LoRd
 


it isn't that the story has flaws, it's that the translation into english contains translation bias



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 11:02 PM
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Originally posted by MAC269
reply to post by TiM3LoRd
 


Dear TiM3LoRd

Try doing some studying, Lithe come from the same text as Adam and Eve early Sumerian.

Study then talk.



yeah sorry about my ignorance. i must have left my early sumerian bible in my other house. hang on let me go get it and clarify..................



are you serious??? sumerian texts??? im having problems believing a book i can read and you quoting a book written in a dead language???

thanks for the input anyway.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by zroth

Originally posted by TiM3LoRd
reply to post by zroth
 


i understand the concepts you are trying to explain but these are not the traditional christian views. which is what i have contention with. also nothing all knowing can be surprised. its a paradox.


sure. there is no traditional Christianity without a baseline denomination to discuss. there is catholic, Lutheran, LDS, etc.


Yes and no. You may discuss Christianity as it is described in the Bible, which is Christianity without doctrinal influences. It does not, of course, exist as an organized religion today, so to put things into context, most people do need to draw in a specific doctrine.

Many Christians, including myself, have a difficult time including Latter Day Saints as a Christian faith, as their beliefs in many areas are contrary to Christian teaching. If you have been baptized in the LDS Church and wish to convert to Methodism or Catholicism, for example, you will need to be baptized again, as those churches will not accept the Mormon baptism as a Christian one.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 11:08 PM
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Originally posted by TiM3LoRd
reply to post by adjensen
 


so basically what your saying is "well we Christians kind of take the old testament with a grain of salt. its more of a rough estimation than an actual historic documentation."

problem is you built your house on shaky foundation. if the original story has flaws then all the rest are flawed by definition. if the bible is not a play by play account of what happened as most christians believe it to be then how do you know what is artistic license and whats fact???? this is my fundamental flaw with Christianity. its just not perfect enough for me. if im going to invest my faith in something as big as what i consider god to be it has to be fool proof. divinity is in the details. and if you cant even get the basics right what hope do you have of getting the important things right?


No, the New Testament is not viewed in the same fashion, and all that we need to know about God is contained there, because, again, we come to God through Christ, not through the Bible. We don't need to understand everything about him, don't need to know what he'd think of cell phones or the Internet, for example, in order to be reconciled to him.

Christianity is, at its core, following Christ's two commandments, to love God and to love other people as much as you love yourself, and to accept Christ's sacrifice for you, to fulfill the law and reconcile you to God. That's it. To say that Christ's commandments are flawed because one doesn't believe in the Torah explanation of creation is not sensible.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 11:08 PM
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reply to post by dusty1
 


i thought we were talking about god and not man? why would a mans capacity to feel jealousy be a surprising revelation.

if your trying to give me an example of how a man can feel jealousy im well aware that humans are flawed in the sense that we still havent evolved to a point where we are in better control of our emotions.

how can god be jealous of man worshiping another god when there is only one god. how does that work? are there other gods? how can there be other gods? when god is everything.????????????? care to elaborate?



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 11:12 PM
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Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by zroth

Originally posted by TiM3LoRd
reply to post by zroth
 


i understand the concepts you are trying to explain but these are not the traditional christian views. which is what i have contention with. also nothing all knowing can be surprised. its a paradox.


sure. there is no traditional Christianity without a baseline denomination to discuss. there is catholic, Lutheran, LD S, etc.


Yes and no. You may discuss Christianity as it is described in the Bible, which is Christianity without doctrinal influences. It does not, of course, exist as an organized religion today, so to put things into context, most people do need to draw in a specific doctrine.

Many Christians, including myself, have a difficult time including Latter Day Saints as a Christian faith, as their beliefs in many area are contrary to Christian teaching. If you have been baptized in the LDS Church and wish to convert to Methodism or Catholicism, for example, you will need to be baptized again, as those churches will not accept the Mormon baptism as a Christian one.


and you dont see the hypocrisy of all this baptizing? do you really think god cares??? really?? its water on your head. why would god care whether if it was done by one priest or another???



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 11:15 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


Indeed. It is difficult to have a discussion around the OPs concept of flawed without some fixed points.

Even if we exclude LDS we have the book itself to lock down. King James, NIV, The Message, NLT, Wycliffe, etc;

Couple that with the fact that the translations have their own set of challenges.

At the end of the day the commandments of Jesus are simple. Love God completely and Love your neighbor as yourself.

Jesus called his teachings the way. Christianity was a method for Rome to maintain control and keep the empire strong.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 11:15 PM
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reply to post by antonia
 


actually creating something from nothing is manifestation but i think your right in the fact that we are a projection of god. and dont sell yourself short each person is unique and the rarest thing in the universe. good bad or ugly we all serve a purpose.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 11:17 PM
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reply to post by TiM3LoRd
 

I've got news for you,'thou shalt not have other Gods before me' specifically suggests there is more than one God,I tend to go with the Roman model as above so below; that they are the same dysfunctional squabbling imperfect types of beings that they preside over.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 11:18 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


im confused..... so are you saying you dont believe in the king james version of what happened in the bible as gospel truth or not? regardless about what you believe jesus's story was it all stems from the bible. old and new.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by TiM3LoRd

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by zroth

Originally posted by TiM3LoRd
reply to post by zroth
 


i understand the concepts you are trying to explain but these are not the traditional christian views. which is what i have contention with. also nothing all knowing can be surprised. its a paradox.


sure. there is no traditional Christianity without a baseline denomination to discuss. there is catholic, Lutheran, LD S, etc.


Yes and no. You may discuss Christianity as it is described in the Bible, which is Christianity without doctrinal influences. It does not, of course, exist as an organized religion today, so to put things into context, most people do need to draw in a specific doctrine.

Many Christians, including myself, have a difficult time including Latter Day Saints as a Christian faith, as their beliefs in many area are contrary to Christian teaching. If you have been baptized in the LDS Church and wish to convert to Methodism or Catholicism, for example, you will need to be baptized again, as those churches will not accept the Mormon baptism as a Christian one.


and you dont see the hypocrisy of all this baptizing? do you really think god cares??? really?? its water on your head. why would god care whether if it was done by one priest or another???


How is that hypocrisy? Baptism is one of the few sacraments of the church, meaning that it's a critical part of the process of becoming a Christian. If you come in and claim that the time someone dumped a beer over your head, yelling "Go Packers!" is the same thing as baptism, is it reasonable to believe that the Catholic Church is going to say "okay, sounds like you've already had the sacrament"?

If the LDS church is not considered Christian, their baptism has as much validity as the beer over the head one, from a doctrinal standpoint (I don't want to imply that the Mormons don't think it's every bit as valid as a Catholic or Lutheran one, but the Catholics and Lutherans would beg to differ.)



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by anglodemonicmatrix
reply to post by TiM3LoRd
 

I've got news for you,'thou shalt not have other Gods before me' specifically suggests there is more than one God,I tend to go with the Roman model as above so below; that they are the same dysfunctional squabbling imperfect types of beings that they preside over.


yeah i kind of brought that point up before. not getting a lot of reply's about the points i raised just more merry go round comments that go nowhere.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 11:23 PM
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i think baptism is a public declaration of your faith.
sorta like a rite of passage.



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