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If someone alters the past is it possible for us to notice it?

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posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 06:59 PM
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Let's say this:You woke up one morning and see a bunch of Soviet Troops walking down the streets in your American town. You read a newspaper and see it's 2010. Then you wondered why and ask yourself isn't the Cold War over? You went to library and discovered that the Soviets Invaded the US in 1989 (for unknown reasons)
(Athough the person doesn't know it, it turns out that a time traveler has change the course of history that allows the Soviets to invade the US)

So it possible we can experience changes in the past if someone alters it?



[edit on 24-7-2010 by starwarsisreal]




posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 07:13 PM
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reply to post by starwarsisreal
 


no we would not notice it. the past for us "just is" things would change and we would go on with our lives like nothing happened for us it would be what life is. infact if time travel does exist who knows how many times our past has changed the world we live in today could be vastly different than the original world.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 07:14 PM
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The way time & space work, myself (and many other theorists and physicists) don't believe it is possible to travel to a place in time before a time traveling device was created. And in many cases, this "time traveling device" is an end of a wormhole, that, through the tricks of relativity, would be an entrance to the past through an opening on a near-light-speed spaceship.

Then there is the paper written by Van Stockum which studied a hypothetical problem in general relativity in which a very dense and infinitely (i know, i know, that's why it's hypothetical) long cylinder is set in to spinning motion along its infinitely long axis. Mathematically it shows, roughly speaking, that this spinning twists the time dimension on its side, so that circular motion around the cylinder takes you to the past.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 07:21 PM
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All that we know RIGHT NOW, is based on everything else in "the past" - things are all tied together (based on Quantum mechanics and Eastern philosophy). So the answer is no - whatever you know now is exactly that what you know now; if someone had been able to travel and change something you could never know it.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 07:21 PM
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reply to post by starwarsisreal
 


A couple of things here ...

1. It isn't possible to alter the past.

2. If, somehow, it did happen, no one would know.
If somehow, I was able to travel back in time to change something, and was successful. Then I wouldn't need to travel back in time to change anything, so I wouldn't. Thus, the change wouldn't happen, and everything would be as it was originally. This creates a paradox that is insurmountable.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 07:22 PM
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i do heard rumors of timeline shifting here in ATS a longtime ago



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 07:24 PM
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I dont think so.
Say you were standing a a street corner and an accident happens in front of you. So you go home and fire up the flux capacitor and travel back to the beginning of the day and disable the vehicles to prevent them from moving.
This is the problem if there is no accident then there is no need to go back to the beginning of the day to prevent the accident.

I would think it would have to do with the reality that you wound up in.

Watch Back to the future it will help.

[edit on 24-7-2010 by hillbilly4rent]

[edit on 24-7-2010 by hillbilly4rent]

[edit on 24-7-2010 by hillbilly4rent]



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 07:34 PM
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NO. If your past was changed then everything that happened would have never happened.


I have a theory on why we have never seen or met time travelers. I think that time has a self-correcting feature that makes it impossible to create a time paradox. So you could go back in time and do anything you want and it have no effect on the time line that you left. If I am right a time traveler could pop up right in front of you and you never see him because as soon as he popped up he would no longer be in the same time line. Every body's past is someone's future. And a time traveler could never get back to the same timeline twice. If I am right this makes time travel all but usless and point less. My time travel theory is a little too long and drawed out to explain here but I think it explains a lot. I wished I could put my theory to a real scientist and get some real feedback.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 07:41 PM
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Originally posted by AnthraAndromda
reply to post by starwarsisreal
 


A couple of things here ...

1. It isn't possible to alter the past.

2. If, somehow, it did happen, no one would know.
If somehow, I was able to travel back in time to change something, and was successful. Then I wouldn't need to travel back in time to change anything, so I wouldn't. Thus, the change wouldn't happen, and everything would be as it was originally. This creates a paradox that is insurmountable.



ok cleverdick (meant jokily)

what happens if:

1. Tell Hitler and any other despot that


2. I go back in time and alter something and leave an unmissable instruction to myself to go back in time to make the change? I.E. I visit my future self (just prior to the time when i returned to the past) immediately after i effect the change and order it done just before my original self returns to the future point of departure - does that not solve the canundrum?



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 07:46 PM
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Originally posted by AnthraAndromda
reply to post by starwarsisreal
 


A couple of things here ...

1. It isn't possible to alter the past.

2. If, somehow, it did happen, no one would know.
If somehow, I was able to travel back in time to change something, and was successful. Then I wouldn't need to travel back in time to change anything, so I wouldn't. Thus, the change wouldn't happen, and everything would be as it was originally. This creates a paradox that is insurmountable.

I agree with the first point.

But lets just say reverse causal time travel did happen... that would mean both instances on the universe are happening at once and couldn't actually interfere with one another on that level because if they did , it infers every instance of time is ALWAYS happening simultaneously and we still do not perceive a change or paradox.
Just because you change the past for yourself , doesn't mean you change the present for us at all.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 07:59 PM
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So a timetraveller would be like a Transdimensional being? only in all spectrums they have no influence of the time there in whatsoever, one could be right in front of you and you'd never know it as the physics of our time differates from that sending it here.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 08:44 PM
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No.

Because you are a part of the timeline prior to the event that was changed, and you were a part of both timelines after the divergence. The only person that would know something was changed is a person witnessing the event following one path (the path prior to the future change in the event) jumps either back before the event and live it out through the changed timeline, or by jumping form the first timeline to any part of the timeline after the changed event. Perspective.

Say whaat

Edit: S&F for making me think.

Edit: BUT IT IS possible that the altering/divergence in timelines leave a residue, wave, or signiture we in the changed timeline could detect....
[edit on 24-7-2010 by Tempest333]

[edit on 24-7-2010 by Tempest333]



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 08:49 PM
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reply to post by starwarsisreal
 


Your posting grabbed my attention, so I decided to give you some feed back relative to your question. My answer to your question is "Yes" it is possible for us to notice.

Now while I realize you probably need more than just a yes no answer, I will try to provide enough to get you pointed in the right direction. While I do not claim anything other than information on background relative to the time travel technology that is available by public source for anyone to find and read for themselves. I also am in no way trying to convince you of anything. I merely repeat in my own words what I have learned by much review and study of the persons noted and their material. While I have posted extensively about this subject matter in many ATS threads, if you are so inclined you can search those out and see for yourself that I take this matter very seriously.

Yes, if the past is changed, it would be possible for us to notice, but not all of us. I must explain and in that vein of explanation I will state now that if you want to understand what secret technology can do you must follow or get brushed up on some secret time travel technology that does not require time machines and all that Hollywood make believe that is so often sold as how time would occur or what limitations it would have. The "Paradox" is always mentioned and for the sake of this posting, no paradox dangers exist because time travel is not physically conducted unless so desired. It becomes more of a holographic use of technology to see, view, hear and even participate should the time traveler so choose.

Google and or You-Tube both Dr. Dan Burisch and Andrew Basiago. These two key sources discuss time travel and discuss the secret time technology known as the "The Looking Glass" and "The Cube" that allows for time travel to be achieved in a manner not commonly known to most average citizens. While the cube has been called other things by other agencies and groups it is better known as I have indicated for your future searches.

Anyway, spend some time viewing the many videos, read the publications and in time you will understand much about the mechanics of time travel and how using such a device can be used to alter the future. You will also learn about its abuses and misuse by those that would use such technology to alter time and events to merely profit from or to ensure some form of political success. It is this last group that we as a nation are in danger from. I will explain as I go along why I feel that way. With that being stated as a light background let me explain my answer.

Yes you would notice if for instance you one day were watching TV and the announcer reported that a certain movie star has died of either natural or whatever reason. No matter the reason, the point here is if you heard the report or read the newspaper or if someone told you as part of some conversation, then you because you were made aware of something are in a unique position to notice the time changes. If you never heard the report or did not know of the death, then changing the event would not not be noticed because you were never informed. There would be nothing to notice if you never knew in the time line altered.

Because some would hear the TV report or read the paper for that time line any change to the time line would only be noticeable by those that had some direct past knowledge of such a death.

This is why if one day you wake up and hear that someone just went on vacation that you swear just heard they died, this would be a good clue that a time line alteration has taken place. You may or may not notice, but you could if you tried. What you would be left thinking is that somethings seems out of place, not right and therein you would somehow know but not know. You sense that you know but current time line influences would only puzzle you or cause you to think you were losing your mind.

If you began asking around, the answers received would be relative to whether or not in the past time line you knew it was different. You can read a million postings in this regard with an old thread about just such collection of people who notice things like dead stars and movie stars that one day they think they are dead and the next they are alive going on vacation. In order for this to be this way, the time was altered and that is where I must now only touch on enough to get you searching on your own.

In order to change the past, it helps to know the future. By altering the past it affects the future. Knowing a certain future and then by altering the past which is by the way, any date or time backward from any future event is the past, so you must learn these basic elements of time travel to understand.

Anyway if you can see the future, you can alter the present which is the past from the future event. Then in the present you could affect changes of enough "significance to alter the future event. You see just because you change something small does not mean that the small change is sufficient to alter the future to affect the time line desired. As such multiple acts of alteration are used to better ensure the change will become the future.

I realize this may way too much and way over your head, but with some background research on your own, I have no doubt that you will understand as much if not more than I why time is more malleable than most would think. What the dangers are can be quite significant.

I will not go into it here, but I contend that this same secret technology is being used to alter the future by changing the past with knowledge from the future. With such technology in the hands of evil people, much could be done that has the potential to harm all of humanity. In the hands of moral and decent people, such technology has the potential to solve all future crime, all past and present crime and it has the ability to show us our true past.

Such technology that would reveal so many secrets to so many crimes is the last thing the current criminals using the secret technology want for their safety. Secrecy is needed to prevent them from ever being accountable for their crimes against humanity. They must continue to secretly guard what is allowing them to be so successful with their current crime time endeavors.

Of late I believe they are using the secret technology to see the future and by identifying all those that will be future witnesses in future trials, they can kill in the present those that in the future will contribute to some trial. In such a way they can kill anyone and in doing so alter or prevent those future cases from ever being won or even pursued into court. Such an abuse is currently going on and while I have posted extensively about this concern, too often the uninformed who are too lazy to read or learn on their own too often criticize what they do not understand. I don't have time for those types and never will.

Anyway, I know this was a vein effort to attempt to explain, but with so much to consider before drawing any conclusions, my suggestion is to do some background and you will find that my remarks about the subject matter at hand will always be consistent, because I have come to understand what the technology can and cannot do. It is that understanding of what I have taken from my own research that allows me to make this statement and to understand how their abuses will affect us all. For instance, I feel strongly that Obama was provided information that allowed him to know how and who lost the health care bill vote. By knowing the future and who lost it for him he then in the present can take Sen Kucinich on AF1 and get him to change it.

Hope I have helped. Like I said, your posting caught my attention and I thought I would share. Hope it wasn't too much to process, but it is my most favorite subject matter.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 08:49 PM
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As said in above posts, no, you wouldn't notice it.

If the timeline had changed, then the past, as you perceived it, would have also changed, thus you wouldn't realise anything was 'different', so to speak.

For example, if something changed so that you never met your best friend, you wouldn't know any different, since you'd never met them.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 08:57 PM
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reply to post by MaxBlack
 


Great post man, star for you.

However, as much as I appreciate the depth and theory behind this, I still can't see how it'd work..

Because surely if the past was altered, then it would have a knock on effect, like.. If something was altered in the past, it would have a knock on effect through 'the rest of the past' before it affected the 'present day you'. Like I said in my previous post, if the past was changed so that you never met your best friend, you wouldn't notice that you didn't know them, because you never met them in the past.

In argument to your example of hearing about someone going on holiday, who you just heard died; if they had died, then why would someone tell you that they were going on holiday? Unless of course they hadn't been informed that they'd died.

Whilst I could see you, or others, arguing that that right there is evidence of the timeline changing, that could purely just be coincidence that they haven't heard of the death yet, or something along those lines.

As far as I've gone into time travel / alterations, etc, leads me to be adamant that if the past was changed, you wouldn't notice it.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by AnthraAndromda
 


the grandfather paradox can be easily circumvented with he multiverse theory changing YOUR individual past is impossible. you can however create and alternate future. we create alternate realities by the milisecond when we choose to go left or right. every sentient being in the universe has the power to create reality. if you dont believe that then you must believe that we are all just a program running its course. and i dont know about you but i dont see the point of creating a reality as complex as this and imposing such limitations as a deterministic outcome. i think the grand complexity of reality lies withing its unpredictability. a singular universe would be a pre determined one. whats the point of that?



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 09:05 PM
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Hahahahahh NO.

It is impossible to change the past.

Why because free will doesn't exist.

You humans are so ignorant that you actually think that because, to a complex mind, you are no more random then the probability that an electron that is in motion would obtain an electrostatic magnetic field.




But yes I am human.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 09:10 PM
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reply to post by Gentill Abdulla
 


I find the topic of whether or not we have free will both disturbing and interesting. If in fact, there is a God, and we are part of his divine plan, so be it.
If in fact, there is a God and he gave us free will to decide our outcome when we die, so be ie.
If in fact there is no God, and we merely have free will because we are intelligent, sentient beings, so be it.
And if in fact everything we do is pre-determined because of the way the electrons in our body work, so be it.

That doesn't affect the topic at hand. Whether or not we have free will, if time travel is possible, and someone was pre-determined to change the past, then that would still affect the future, regardless of free will.
What that does do however, is support that no matter what happens, you would never ever notice something changing in the past. It's just a chain reaction.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 09:11 PM
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Originally posted by MaxBlack
reply to post by starwarsisreal
 

Google and or You-Tube both Dr. Dan Burisch and Andrew Basiago. These two key sources discuss time travel and discuss the secret time technology known as the "The Looking Glass" and "The Cube" that allows for time travel to be achieved in a manner not commonly known to most average citizens. While the cube has been called other things by other agencies and groups it is better known as I have indicated for your future searches.

Anyway, spend some time viewing the many videos, read the publications and in time you will understand much about the mechanics of time travel and how using such a device can be used to alter the future. You will also learn about its abuses and misuse by those that would use such technology to alter time and events to merely profit from or to ensure some form of political success. It is this last group that we as a nation are in danger from. I will explain as I go along why I feel that way. With that being stated as a light background let me explain my answer.



Yes Andrew also said he participated in some remote viewing, as well as teleportation to mars.

Told me himself.Yeah he's on my facebook page. We chat sometimes. very traumatizing for him so we don't talk about it that much.

[edit on 24-7-2010 by Gentill Abdulla]



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 09:14 PM
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Money quote right here....


Originally posted by Robbed In Albion.
reply to post by Gentill Abdulla
 

That doesn't affect the topic at hand. Whether or not we have free will, if time travel is possible, and someone was pre-determined to change the past, then that would still affect the future, regardless of free will.
What that does do however, is support that no matter what happens, you would never ever notice something changing in the past. It's just a chain reaction.


Yes but it would mean we wouldn't be able to cause a paradox even if we tried.

Which is why this is relevant, and why you wouldn't notice because you changed it already.




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