Will The REAL Christians Please Stand Up?

reply to post by awake_and_aware


Well actually there's a fractal sh*t ton of proof of Christ. My favorite example are the Syrian heretical groups. These are heretical groups that broke off from the church only 30 years after Christ's death. They did not just pop into existence. They were part of the first generation of Christians and broke off from them.


Also, we did not have Christ's virtues before Christ. We DID have Stoic virtues. But hey, guess what. They were based on a monotheistic God who was above all and ruled the world and on all accords was essentially the God of the Israleites.

No rule says God has to stay in one religion. No rule says that he can't bounce around, changing faiths towards what he wants so that they would be ready for Christ. And wouldn't you know it? Every polytheistic religion had people who preached one God and the same basic virtues. It is man's nature to worship many gods, and yet there is a sure sign of going against this nature.

God is awesome. He can doe whatever the hell he feels like. It's not just coincidence that these virtues show up in every monotheistic movement within polytheistic societies.

Originally posted by Mesmerizer
It's a much larger problem with Islam. All we ever hear is that it's the extremists of the group and not average muslims and they are using bad translations of the Koran and why aren't the moderates speaking out. Everything you said is amplified times ten with Islamic radicalism but I guess we can't point that out because it might offend someone.

maybe it´s because you live in a Western country and you watch the MSM.
the MSM is placing blame on muslims 24/7, demonizing every muslim there is.

and i think this is why you formed such an opinion.

you saying that; muslim religion is worse than christianity? (100x)
isn't that just your opinion? if not, i want to see some facts.

reply to post by Shadowed


What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions UNTIL the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator..For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.
-Gal3.19,21

In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 3The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven. 4So he became as much superior to the angels as the name he has inherited is superior to theirs.
5For to which of the angels did God ever say,
"You are my Son-Heb1

Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him...
One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike.-Rom14

For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them-Matt18.20

the Most High does not live in houses made by men.-Acts7.48

The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!"-Rev22.17

There is a river whose streams make glad the city of God, the holy place where the Most High dwells.-Ps46.4

For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.-John1.17

I sympathize with your posting, OP. But part of the problem with this country is not just the leaders of the different sects, but how many of the faithful are trying to see that this becomes a "Christian" nation. There are many perfectly lovely people who believe differently, but with every bit as much faith as any Christian.
Let's make this a nation that has room and tolerance for everyone, not one that separates people into "acceptable" or "not acceptable" categories because of their faith.
The trend of religious discrimination that is sweeping Europe is a scary one. And America is already so polarized religiously it could easily happen here.
As someone who doesn't believe in religion, ANY religion, I still believe strongly in religious freedom. But America is not only a Christian nation. We have been and should be proud to be a nation that welcomes every faith in existence, and maybe even some that are so whimsical and nuts that they probably shouldn't. But that's what freedom is all about, isn't it?

Originally posted by GuiltyByDesign
reply to post by Parallex

 

"How very George Bush!"

How very Bill Maher.

Touche.

*couldn't resist, it's my first cup of coffee this morning*

GBD

[edit on 25-7-2010 by GuiltyByDesign]

#

I'm a big fan. I love Religulous - it's part of my pitch to Christians who want to explore the dark side. If they ask me, I show them.

Parallex.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Would the real Christians please stand?

Keeper...

What's up?????

OT's standing....do you know who took my "lazy boy"?

reply to post by Parallex


Not really. That sword is the sword of dividing the saved and unsaved. It is not the Christian way to use it to kill. Killing you does not save your soul. It merely damns it. It would be the highest wrong to kill. So I could care less what George Bush says. He goes to church. That's about the most Christian thing he does.

Killing is done to barbarians, like those in the bible, because they were men of lawlessness and wildness who raped and pillaged. Barbarians are indoctrinated. They will never change. A dead barbarian makes all the world better. But Iraq nor Afghanistan are not Barbarians. The Taliban and the monsters who through acid at the fact of girls are. But they are few. To kill thousands over a few evil men is wrong. Iraq was not barbaric as they were not men of lawlessness nor hatred. We made them into that. And for that we are at wrong.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


There is always the possibility of finding a way to medically prove Christians and their faith are a product of mental illness. Medicate them out.

I happen to be Christian also, so if the government tries to medicate me, I think I'll have to go hide somewhere.

Just a thought.

GBD

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by awake_and_aware

 

Well actually there's a fractal sh*t ton of proof of Christ. My favorite example are the Syrian heretical groups. These are heretical groups that broke off from the church only 30 years after Christ's death. They did not just pop into existence. They were part of the first generation of Christians and broke off from them.

Ahhh so you'll be talking about the Gnostic Sun Cult then?

You know, the one that appeared in the Syria / Israel area. Yes, they developed the Egyptian theistic traditions into a monotheistic, personified version that they could control.

It's all very simple really. There was no God. There may have been a bloke acting up the role of Jesus. All there REALLY was, was a bunch of clever con-artists trying to make a quick buck, and get some power. I have to say, I'm in awe of their confidence trick. It's the greatest in history.

Parallex.

Originally posted by Parallex

Originally posted by No King but Jesus
reply to post by The Djin

 

know that no murderer has eternal life in him-1John3.15

They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him-Acts7.52

So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets.-Matt23.31

Stop quoting scripture, or I will genuinely start reporting your posts as spam. For that's what it is. I suggest seeking professional psychological help.

Parallex.

What is your problem about quoting the Bible? Nothing wrong with that. Many times I found people quoting other religion books and I read them with respect and found good thoughts there too. God is not for christians only, He is for the universe and you are in there too.

I can say 100% sure, you hate christians. Your avatar is offensive and full of hate, but we christians tolerate and respect you anyway.

You should take your own advice about psychological help. If you are going to attack me now for this post, that will only confirm you need help.

reply to post by awake_and_aware


be sure and tell that to the cherub bright as lightning eyes wings and all I saw at @13ish and/or of course the audible voice that said "I am Jesus", I know what I've seen and heard, and scriptures confirm, you do not, do you think I'm telling you, just to be called a liar?

Originally posted by GuiltyByDesign
reply to post by awake_and_aware

 

There is always the possibility of finding a way to medically prove Christians and their faith are a product of mental illness. Medicate them out.

I happen to be Christian also, so if the government tries to medicate me, I think I'll have to go hide somewhere.

Just a thought.

GBD

I think that's a good idea myself, but you don't fight opression with a opression, i'd rather win the intellectual battle with these zealous Christians with their old ideas of social morality and perceptions of "right" and "wrong", "good" and "evil" - This shouldn't be anything our children are made to believe. They should be presented the evidence (or lack of it) to see why its a phoney theory.

If you are a Christian, you should expect damnation, or hell as a matter of chance, that God really isn't Allah or Horus, or Shiva.

On judgement day, it might turn out you've been eating ham and God says thats evil, you're going to hell because of what religion you chose.

Tell that to Christians, and they will just deny all the other Gods, how ignorant. Religion has always been geo-graphical based, choose your religion wisely or don't choose it at all.

[edit on 25/7/10 by awake_and_aware]

Originally posted by No King but Jesus
reply to post by awake_and_aware

 

be sure and tell that to the cherub bright as lightning eyes wings and all I saw at @13ish and/or of course the audible voice that said "I am Jesus", I know what I've seen and heard, and scriptures confirm, you do not, do you think I'm telling you, just to be called a liar?

That's your word against mine, you have no evidence for your experience, i could say a pig talked to me yesterday, do i expect you to believe me? no.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Parallex

 

Not really. That sword is the sword of dividing the saved and unsaved. It is not the Christian way to use it to kill. Killing you does not save your soul. It merely damns it. It would be the highest wrong to kill. So I could care less what George Bush says. He goes to church. That's about the most Christian thing he does.

Killing is done to barbarians, like those in the bible, because they were men of lawlessness and wildness who raped and pillaged. Barbarians are indoctrinated. They will never change. A dead barbarian makes all the world better. But Iraq nor Afghanistan are not Barbarians. The Taliban and the monsters who through acid at the fact of girls are. But they are few. To kill thousands over a few evil men is wrong. Iraq was not barbaric as they were not men of lawlessness nor hatred. We made them into that. And for that we are at wrong.

I don't really understand your point here, and your post is in danger of sounding rather 'fundie'-ish (with respect).

You sound quite confused about what religion you are actually part of? Are you a Christian? Or are you something else that happens to abide by Christian principles? If you are the latter, you are not a Christian.

A collective 'noun' describes a group by its' majority share. Therefore, that means that Christianity is actually anything BUT Christian. So if I were you, I wouldn't want to be a Christian. I wouldn't abide by their book, I wouldn't abid by their rules. I suggest you have a read of the translation of the Dead Sea Scrolls, and live without idolitry, without a 'church', without a spiritual guide. Live the 'good' that you want to be. That should be your religion.

Parallex.

Originally posted by awake_and_aware

Originally posted by GuiltyByDesign
reply to post by awake_and_aware

 

There is always the possibility of finding a way to medically prove Christians and their faith are a product of mental illness. Medicate them out.

I happen to be Christian also, so if the government tries to medicate me, I think I'll have to go hide somewhere.

Just a thought.

GBD

I think that's a good idea myself, but you don't fight opression with a opression, i'd rather win the intellectual battle with these zealous Christians with their old ideas of social morality and perceptions of "right" and "wrong", "good" and "evil" - This shouldn't be anything our children are made to belief, or made to see why its a phoney theory.

If you are a Christian, you should expect damnation, or hell as a matter of chance, that God really isn't Allah or Horus, or Shiva.

On judgement day, it might turn out you've been eating ham and God says thats evil, you're going to hell because of what religion you chose.

Tell that to Christians, and they will just deny all the other Gods, how ignorant. Religion has always been geo-graphical based, choose your religion wisely or don't choose it at all.

Here is what I know...

I don't really know anything. The choice I made is the best choice for me, personally. Is it possible I'm completely wrong? Absolutely. Is it possible I'm right? Absolutely.

But quite frankly, I don't know. I know that each of us sees and feels the world differently. Hence why you and I have differing outlooks on religion, the existence of an all-powerful entity, and probably many other things.

If God is Allah, then I will be in trouble.
If God is Shiva, once again, I'm in trouble.
If there is no God... nothing really.

If God is an alien race... that will be VERY interesting to say the least.

That's just my take. I'm no Biblical scholar, I can't quote scripture, I just live and learn and read from time to time.

GBD

Originally posted by GuiltyByDesign

Originally posted by awake_and_aware

Originally posted by GuiltyByDesign
reply to post by awake_and_aware

 

There is always the possibility of finding a way to medically prove Christians and their faith are a product of mental illness. Medicate them out.

I happen to be Christian also, so if the government tries to medicate me, I think I'll have to go hide somewhere.

Just a thought.

GBD

I think that's a good idea myself, but you don't fight opression with a opression, i'd rather win the intellectual battle with these zealous Christians with their old ideas of social morality and perceptions of "right" and "wrong", "good" and "evil" - This shouldn't be anything our children are made to belief, or made to see why its a phoney theory.

If you are a Christian, you should expect damnation, or hell as a matter of chance, that God really isn't Allah or Horus, or Shiva.

On judgement day, it might turn out you've been eating ham and God says thats evil, you're going to hell because of what religion you chose.

Tell that to Christians, and they will just deny all the other Gods, how ignorant. Religion has always been geo-graphical based, choose your religion wisely or don't choose it at all.

Here is what I know...

I don't really know anything. The choice I made is the best choice for me, personally. Is it possible I'm completely wrong? Absolutely. Is it possible I'm right? Absolutely.

But quite frankly, I don't know. I know that each of us sees and feels the world differently. Hence why you and I have differing outlooks on religion, the existence of an all-powerful entity, and probably many other things.

If God is Allah, then I will be in trouble.
If God is Shiva, once again, I'm in trouble.
If there is no God... nothing really.

If God is an alien race... that will be VERY interesting to say the least.

That's just my take. I'm no Biblical scholar, I can't quote scripture, I just live and learn and read from time to time.

GBD

So you're a deist? i don't have a problem with that, i have a problem when your beliefs cause you to judge other people, to opress their ideas and beliefs, when its forced upon our children, thats what i have a problem with.

If you want to GUESS that the Christian god is the true God, then your welcome to make that prediction. but what do you have to go on your prediction? Just a book, if that book never existed, you wouldn't be any wiser to Christianity.

Read Pascal's Wager and see why i still think you clinging on the label to Christianity is wrong.

Me saying God is a giant fruit pie is just as "POSSIBLE" as you thinking the Christian god is true.

Originally posted by Trueman

What is your problem about quoting the Bible? Nothing wrong with that. Many times I found people quoting other religion books and I read them with respect and found good thoughts there too. God is not for christians only, He is for the universe and you are in there too.

Ooooh a fundie.... listen closely my friend.

Quoting the bible is fine, if the bible text is being discussed. In this case, it isn't, and is completely irrelevant - being that it was written as a purely allegorical piece - and has been twisted by political and fascist intent ever since.

God is for whoever is vulnerable enough or indoctrinated enough to believe in him. The universe gave rise to the idea of God through man. Not the other way around my happy Christian friend. Do the logic.

I can say 100% sure, you hate christians. Your avatar is offensive and full of hate, but we christians tolerate and respect you anyway.

To quote a popular (now banned by the Christian mafia) member on here: "I don't hate Christians, I hate what they do".

Most 'Christians' don't respect or tolerate me, they put up with me because they know that if they try and shut me up, or attack me, or hurt me, I will have won. Also, because the Christian argument is so flaccid, and so completely inebriated with stupidity, it never stands up to rational - empirical debate.

You should take your own advice about psychological help. If you are going to attack me now for this post, that will only confirm you need help.

I won't attack you mate. I will pity you, but I certainly wont attack you. Loving the "Ner ner ner IDDST" argument you've got going there by the way.

Parallex.

reply to post by GuiltyByDesign


GBD - you're a legend.

Keep up the humourous dialogue, it's a refreshing change.

Parallex.

reply to post by Trueman


edit meant for parralex

the LORD is our King-Is33.22

Indeed, our shield belongs to the LORD, our King-Ps89.10

The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name.-Zech14.9

Most High is sovereign over the kingdoms of men-Dan4.17

There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms.-Eze37.22

beginning at Jerusalem-Luke24.47

They are all defying Caesar's decrees, saying that there is another king, one called Jesus."-Acts17.7

If God places no trust in his servants,
if he charges his angels with error,
how much more those who live in houses of clay,
whose foundations are in the dust,
who are crushed more readily than a moth!-Job4.18






[edit on by No King but Jesus]

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Hellow fellow members of ATS.

I have a request, a small one, albeit an important one.

It's time for the "Christ" like Christians, you know the wonderful ones which exist all over the world by the millions, to stand up and retake your religion from these extremist morons who are making you look bad.

These people who justify book burnings, murder and all other kinds of behaviour by hiding behind God and the mighty Bible.

Countless threads about these topics, always cary the carbon copy reply of :

Well they aren't "real" christians, they misrepresent us, they are radicals,etc..

Well it's time for you all to show this to the world. The horrible stigma against religion is because of these people.

Like any group you must voice your opinions, especially considering the majority of Christians are the good ones.

Why do we allow a small minority to dictate to and represent the larger majority?

I wanted to open a discussion about how, purposely, religion continues to only be brought up in the most extreme of circumstances, and what good christians can do to retake what is rightfully theirs.

Thoughts?

~Keeper

Starred and Flagged because .. well two opposing reasons..

1: I turned my back on religion when I was 14. BUT I always consider true Christians to be good people - and I mean the ones without an agenda.. Yes they exist..

2: It shines the light on other religions who sit on their hands when people take their god and use it to commit slaughter.

The former, often leave me filled with good thoughts, a welcome feeling and sometimes a belief that despite my beliefs, I'm still a good person.

The latter, scream how people like me are evil, the devil, living the path to hell; that they are not responsible for anything done in the name of their religion, who segregate themselves, call for their own version of community rules within a host country, yet claim they live by the law of the land, but still in another breath proclaim only their religious law is valid.

No one stands up from their fence to state categorically they are insane.. indeed their children adopt their beliefs. EN MASSE.

Not just a singular group in one place.. but ALL over the world..

Stand up good Christians, you stand among good people... even if I do not share your belief.