My absolute "last" post on the subject of LEOs!

reply to post by sassyncute


"Just imagine what would of happened if she were actually "kidnapped" (as the op says) by proper bad criminals. I am sure you know the type i am talking about. Obviously there are no longer any requirement to joining the police or sheriffs office anymore, as her frailty would of showed up on any of the standard psychiatric tests they obviously did not use on her before joining".

Actually she was kidnapped and held at gun point along with 3 other deputies and they were held for several hours. She was told at one point during the ordeal that if she was going to wear pants like a man she couled die like a man.
She suffered no mental or ill effects from that epidsode. However, when her trusted colleagues threw her to the ground and took her career that meant the world to her. Degraded her like a common crack whore.....yeah, she took that a littel hard.
You have the deapth of a thimble. I have shown complete transparency and opened myself up for crap. I have even came back on and tried to make clarifications. I have given names to be researched on the web.
What have you shown besides judgement and ignorance?
Seeashrink

[edit on 25-7-2010 by seeashrink]

[
Oops, dual post

[edit on 25-7-2010 by seeashrink]

Originally posted by seeashrink
reply to post by sassyncute

 

What have you shown besides judgement and ignorance?

Cuteness and sassynesss?

Yeah...that happening at the hands of your coworkers over what some bimbo chose to moan to her lover about had to be far more devastating on so many levels than getting caught up in a crime, where you know who the bad guys are. Betrayals of trust in an organization where your very life depends on trust is damn traumatic.

reply to post by virgom129


First a disclaimer. I hate police. I have reason and won't go into it here. I will probable hate them for the rest of my life. Please do not reply with who are you going to call when you need help. You do not know me. Neither did they or they would have chosen somebody else. That said when I hate someone I try to understand them. I have known many LEO's as friends. They are good men. Being a good man does not make you a good officer. So I had to find out why they are the way they are, hopefully to change the situation.

Police do not enforce the law. It is an impossibility for them to do so. The laws are changing constantly and lawyers whose job it is to know and study the law constantly can not keep up with the changes. So where does that leave LEO's?

In case you haven't noticed when a police officer is cleared there is a phrase that is used. He "followed policy and procedure". Not he followed the law. Not that he didn't break the law. He just followed policy and procedure. That is a LEO's touchstone as he cannot know the law.

The job I do has the same kind of ambiguity in it. I have a boss who is a good man. I think they put us together to train him. You see we have policy's and procedures too. Only I don't follow them. It drives him nuts. He keeps telling me that if I follow policy and procedure that we can't get in trouble. He is CYA all the time. I don't CYA. I do what is required to do the right thing. He is continually amazed at what I do and how I do it. He has difficulty in understanding that I wrote most of what he is following. I know when it applies and when it does not. So you understand how important it is and why he is so CYA we used to have a joke. No one dies and no one bleeds. That is no longer true. People do die now if we make a mistake.

Now consider a LEO. He does not know the laws. He is afraid to really use his own judgement. Someone can die, he can die, if he makes a mistake. So he follows policy and procedure. If someone does die from his actions he believes himself not really responsible but civilians do hold him responsible. To him we do not understand. He has to answer to people who were not there who will judge his actions and if they did not follow policy and procedures and will hold him responsible EVEN IF THE OUTCOME IS GOOD! Than there is also local politics to worry about as well. He just wants to keep his job and stay alive.

Problem is that LEO's don't understand. His job to us is not to keep his job. It is not even his job to STAY ALIVE! To me at least his job is to do what is right not just follow policy and procedure even if it costs him his job. To me his job is TO DIE if that is what it takes to do what is right. Any LEO who does not believe this or does not agree with it should turn in their badge and gun NOW! A LEO has extreme power over us. He can rob us with fines, destroy our family's and lives by arresting us, and even kill us in cold blood, taking a so called aggressive stance. He has that power because you and I and our friends GAVE it to him because we EXPECT him to do what is right. Mistakes happen and CYA keeps your job but it is not what they were hired for.

In my problems so far there had been 15 officers to lose their jobs. Three lost them because they DID THEIR JOB and were fired for doing so. They are hero's. Twelve lost their jobs because they didn't. They followed policy and procedure as their bosses told them even though the officers knew what was going on was wrong! THAT is why civilians hate them. LEO's are so afraid of losing their jobs or their lives that they are no longer what civilians call police. They have forgotten that their job is not to keep their job or even stay alive. Their job is to do the right thing regardless of consequence.

reply to post by seeashrink



Well it just seems to me (I could be wrong) but you are all hired through friends and family and have friends and family working in this sheriffs office. None of you are "real" cops. The NYPD does not hire people as easy as that and neither do any proper force. It just seems these sheriff types in small towns are just people who have no business being in LAW enforcement. Elected LAW enforcement is just laughable. You chose that over joining the real police in your state or a large city where you may of been afforded some sort of chain of command that is represented by a structured management committee and procedure. This is what you get when you join this type of ridiculous nonsense. Can you imagine the FBI or ATS (real cops) just being able to fire colleagues on a whim. There is a full structure and process to abide by.

Now that you have elaborated on your position and your job my opinion is worse than before and that when you play with children, expect a mess. You were indeed mistreated if your story is correct (im not saying your story is correct as you are a cop so your word is worth less to me than that of a con man) but I think many people in Law enforcement, politics, private company employees have been shafted. Its life. And It may not be the last time for you, because when your new colleagues find out that you are quite loose with your lips they may take a dim view. And god help any female who has implants in your new town. May they run for cover and update their education. Well thank you for your story, and for opening up your life to strangers (again placing your GF - now wife, in possible harms way once again - because if you new employees decide to do the exact same thing because you are too careless with your choice of words and blurt it out on ATS for all too read, do you think that any committee will believe this has happened to you and your GF twice). Seems to me you really are quite naive. And your comment about the thimble, most humorous. I think you deserve everything you got! This Bimbo is done!

reply to post by Jerk_Idiot


Damn, I believe you are even more righteous than I am.
It use to drive my most recent bosses bat# bonkers. Worked for a land development company building large complexes. To follow the procedure when dealing with government building codes and procedures drove me crazy. I build things. Does not matter what they are, I just have a knack for it. Now most of the building inspectors knew it also, but they love the CYA crap.

Now my bosses use to tell me I was not allowed to change the engineering without contacting the engineers and going through the motions. Just one example, one project they rotated one half of the project because we were to close to the property lines on the back. Well this changed the lengths therefore the elevations of all the sidewalks curbing etc. To normally go through the channels it would take a month or more to get the fixes solved, unless I did them myself. Solution done. Now, if I let the engineers do it, they usually screwed them up so I had to do the work anyway, so I just cut out the middleman. Now, one of the bosses use to just let me do my thing, the others had to call in the engineers. What was so funny was that the times they did not believe my breakdown and we built it the way the engineers instructed, we had to tear it up and start over.

In every blueprint that I have ever seen, there is a little stipulation on the first page. It states that every contingency cannot be foreseen so the builder is still responsible for all the work. A lot of builders miss that little note the engineers and architects use to CTA. Now, a lot of people may think a builder is not as important as say a LEO. Sorry to tell the LEO's out there, but when running a project with say 300 men on it, there is more responsibility there than you deal with. Not to mention the people that are either going to be living or working there. Now, my brother in law use to build bridges and damns, his engineers and the government inspectors were even worse than in my building. Anything goes wrong it is always the builders fault even when they tell the engineers and the inspectors there are problems. I have seen it and other builders will tell you the same thing. All they worry about is covering there ass. One of the things that drove me crazy was the all encompassing use of "the insurance will cover it if there are problems!"

This is the thing, no one in this damn world wants to take responsibility for their damn actions. That pretty much sums it up.

We all have a choice to make in our lives, to be righteous or be part of the damn problem. Thanks for that comment, it gives me hope others feel the same way I do.

[edit on 7/25/2010 by endisnighe]

Seeashrink you are wasting your time and energy. Everything that needed to be said was addressed in your OP. If an "individual"( I use the term as lightly as possible)can not see the essence of your story then they have little hope for the future.

Keep fighting the good fight.

sorry to hear...read this.

Hope your wife gets better...I suffer from PTSD.

Its a fubar.

reply to post by up up and away


Thank you for your kindness.
Seeashrink

reply to post by canamtrucker


I am sorry to hear that you too suffer from PTSD. It is certainly a real condition. If you have any advice on how I can better help my wife I would appreciate a U2U.
Thanks,
Seeashrink

Originally posted by doctorwork
Cop: tell the truth:

-how many times have you *snip*

Protect and serve: PLEASE !!

No offense, hon, but I think you have been watching too much TV...

While things like this DO happen, they happen rarely. Sure, every so often there is a story in the news about a police officer somewhere who did something bad, for whatever reason. Think of the hundreds of thousands of police officers out there not planting evidence or messing with numbers. The people who as little kids wanted to be a good guy, and become a cop.

It saddens me to see this GROSS exaggeration of "Most, if not all cops are bad/corrupt."

I have had my fair share of run-in's with the police force as well as a few times where they have come to my rescue. Yeah, some of them can come off as jerks, but that doesn't make them corrupt. Yeah, some are tightly-wound and on-guard at all times, but that doesn't make them killers or evil.

Police Officers put their life on the line every day to keep the community safe and without crime, Just as firefighters put their lives on the line. I have met my fair share of pompous all high-and-mighty firemen as well, I even know that in the past several have lost their jobs do to the fact that they were pyromaniacs... but I never hear people calling for the death of them because there might be a corrupt few in the masses setting fire to homes for attention.

If you don't like the laws the police enforce, then do what you can to change the laws. Don't take your rage of a corrupt system out on the people who are trying their best to do their jobs.

reply to post by sassyncute


You know, I'm trying to figure you out. I went to your profile and there is nothing there. So, I decided to read all of your post on ATS.
I still contend that you have no depth, but you can be somewhat complicated. It's difficult to believe that you have a degree in psychology, but that would explain some of your sterile, detached, coldness. That, along with no belief in God, if I understand you correctly.
I believe that you are in your mid to late 20s, possibly early 30s. You judge quickly because life hasn't kicked you around enough yet. I'm also guessing that both parents are still alive and keep you stroked when life throws a wrinkle at you, so you can come back with positive reassurance and affirmation.
I hope that life continues to go well for you, because arrogance makes for a long, hard fall.
I do not want to be your enemy on ATS, or anyone else's for that matter. I have considered really having a go at you. It would be easy because you are a target rich enviroment. But, what good would that do and what would it accomplish. Maybe make me feel better and hurt you. I'm not that small.
I've told my story in honesty. You have stated your opinions to which you are entitled. They won't cost me any sleep. So I will just say best wishes to you until we meet again on another thread.
Seeashrink

[edit on 25-7-2010 by seeashrink]

reply to post by seeashrink


SS, I am sorry that you are feeling so railed and attacked. that was not my intention but I do say what I mean and do not beat around the bush. I am in my early 30's, 31 to be exact. Both my parents are not alive as you state, they died when I was 17. I do NOT believe in god as I personally think its a weakness to not have 100% belief in yourself and therefor I do not see room for belief in something so intangible. My beliefs are held in fact and what I can see and interact with. I was always taught (rightly or wrongly) that in order to hold belief in a superior being, one must confine their self to that of inferior. I will never hold that thought and I wish more people would use that as a measure of logic.


Your story did annoy me as I see and hear every day people complaining about how they have been mistreated one way or another. I am strictly confining this statement to peoples jobs, relationships and how people are viewed by peers. One thing that always comes to the surface eventually is that the person who feels mistreated in some way has failed to learn the intricacies of social dynamics. In your case, from your own worded post you clearly refer to said woman as a bimbo and highlight her altered appearance. This stands out when reading your post and may be the exact opposite of what you intended but to the reader it says you are judgmental and therefor your "professional" manner as you put it may only be what most regard as condescending. Remember, you think she is a bimbo and has implants so you should of related to her on a level that she felt equal. This is one thing that as a trained officer (YOU) should of been able to do. Most people in the Security field learn how to read people via body language, situation awareness and using de-escalating techniques, and as you have had previous knowledge of this woman around the office it should of been easier for you to get your point across to her without offending her. Then you would not of been in the poo.

As for my so called pampered life. I council and talk to some of the most dangerous men and women in the world. For example, in 2004 I privately interviewed and talked to Michael Ross a well known Serial Killer in New England who killed 8 females. In 2006 I had six sessions with Dennis Neilson a serial killer in England, GB. This was just before he was denied any further appeals to his sentence for the murders of 15 males. These are some of the people I have talked to. Yes I am one of many such people who do this kind of work and yes my work may be futile but you can not say I have not experienced anything. In fact I have talked to people who can kill for no reason and sat as close a three feet to these people. So the coldness you speak about is simply detachment to gain a logical and perspective view that can form the basis of an opinion.
My dislike of violence is what got me started on this path. That no individual should be physically harmed in order to achieve a goal. On the other hand I believe that psychological and mental interrogation and attacking can be a great measure of a persons substance. Anyone can throw a punch.
I am sorry I offended you and I do need to take into account other peoples feelings and inbuilt character differences. However, after reading your FIRST post which is all most people had to go on; and your Statement of NOT replying to anyone; and your then negotiation that people can U2U you if they are not stupid, I think people could of formed an opinion that you were merely another person venting some pent up frustration and seeking solitude among believers. Did you know that stupid is unquantifiable and that the dictionary definition is one that encompasses everyone.
I wish you no ill but advise you to change your view of certain people, after all, you lost out to a bimbo.




[edit on 25-7-2010 by sassyncute]

Not all orientals know karate... What? Next you're going to tell me Chinese dudes don't turn into tigers at midnight!

No seriously though... That is horrible! I hope you the best in whatever you do.

reply to post by sassyncute

I lost out to a bimbo
seriously, well put.
As I described this young lady in one of the clarification post, there could not be any other way to refer to her that is printable on ATS. If she had been a man of similar character I would have figured out a way to describe him in similar fashion.
I realize that bimbo is a degrading term to women and it is not one that I throw around. This was actually a rare case. Adding to that, the remark about the breasts implants did not help matters, but I was trying to paint a picture or a mental image that people could relate to. I'm sure that "bimbo" and "breast implants" is where I lost you and understandably so.
Yes, I am bitter and it shows. I am working on forgiving these people because my bitterness is not hurting anyone but me.
I wanted to clarify something else. I don't know if you understood or not but I didn't know my wife when she was kidnapped in the line of duty along with two other deputies and she had no ill affects from that incident.
Also, I did not lock the door behind me on that day because I figured those deputies would know and respect our civil rights as I did.
It might be good to point out too, that I am not revealing anything that is not public record. Just google cranford v. frick and it is there to read.
Your job sounds very interesting and I am a little envious of it. The handle "seeashrink" came about when I went back to college to get my degree in psychology which I felled to complete, but i did learn a lot. The rest of my education is self taught and through 54 years of living. I have been on my own since I was 11. Thats when my father died and my mother who suffered from mental illness died with him, so to speak. At least she was never a mother after that.
It's amazing what we learn about people when we talk in a civil manner isn't it.
I look forward to many spirited debates with you in the future.
Sincerely,
Seeashrink


[edit on 25-7-2010 by seeashrink]

reply to post by seeashrink


Thank you for telling the rest of your story, i apologise if i came across as hostile, i am one of the people who have 'issues' with the police in general, it may even be accurate to call me a 'cop hater' but beleive me i have good reason to be.
However, having said that i have no trouble looking past a uniform at the person wearing it, and on the rare occasion they show respect and couresy i will respond accordingly.
Your thread really does nothing to make me think any higher of police, on the contrary it shows the majority are either inept of corrupt.
But you have shown that at least a few members of the force have at least some semblance of integrity, a trait lacking not only in the majority of the police force but in the majority of society.

Good luck to you and your wife OP.

reply to post by seeashrink


So, I guess my apology did not hold the substance I was hoping for. Oh well, I, being a man, did that for my own sake. I have this problem of admitting when i am wrong and trying to right whatever wrong I have done.
No need to get aggressive with me "Mr. Professional". I didn't foresee how a simple post by some "unknown" in a public forum could set you off. My apologies again.

No Unions in N.C, ? How about Wrongful Termination laws, Any of them down there in the "deep South"

How about Constitutional Laws ? None of them down there either ?

How about these, The remedies a state EEOC or human rights agency can pursue, depending on the violation and the state statutes, include any or all of the following:

* Injunction relief in the workplace
* Reinstatement of benefits and position
* Lost wages
* Compensation for stress and suffering
* Punitive damages
* Attorney’s fees and court costs
o
Wrongful termination and discrimination in the workplace is outlawed in every state in the union. However, in addition to federal regulations such as the Federal Labor Standards Act of 1938 and the Civil Rights Act of 1964, all states have supplemental laws that expand those protections and in some cases, increase the penalties for employers. North Carolina is an “at will” employment state, which allows employers and employees to terminate employment at any time and for any reason except those prohibited in federal and state statutes. Those statutes also provide methods for victims to file claims for reinstatement and compensation when their rights have been violated.



So with that said, Either your not disclosing a large piece of the puzzle or you and your wife should still be in court awaiting reinstatement and a large back pay check or ..........is there something I am missing.

Your wife was terminated Because she wouldn't succumb to her superiors sexual advances ? and for being your girlfriend ?

you were fired for explaining s.o.p to the rookie Dept. Bimbo and for work place jealousy of bedding down the dept hottie ?

And you both walked away from your jobs with no, or very little, compensation

you may live in the "deep south" Mayberry RFD and Paton place all rolled into one, where you folks are sleeping with family members and running up and down The Dept corridors like Drunk college co-eds on girls gone wild. but there are Federal Laws that need to be addressed. Even in the "deep South"

This without even getting into Constitutional Law

*shrug* Makes no sense to me. should be on Ripley's believe it or not.




[edit on 25-7-2010 by bull621]

Originally posted by ~Lucidity
You're assuming first that they don't turn their own in....or try, and second that it's easy to?

[edit on 7/25/2010 by ~Lucidity]

This is not an assumption, it is an observation. Two totally different things.

And i don't care how easy it is to. That is not my concern. I don't accept such excuses from employees at my place of business, why would I accept it from my public employees?

There are always legal remedies and real legal justice may be eventually served but that remedy requires a large monetary,time and emotional investment by not only the perpetrator(s) and victim(s) but many times friends and families of both camps are forced into investments of their own. Who are the beneficiaries of this system? The state,The Lawyers,the politicians. The US. Gov. has set precedent,they will use their military might against us. The Police have become accessories to a conspiracy to commit treason. We the people must be equally armed and fortified. Either by gunpowder or video camera. If you chose to become a police officer you need to wake up and choose sides. You know if you are infringing on someones personal God given rights and you know if you've got whats coming to you.Look at who you work with look at who you work for,now look at who is using you and don't pretend it is out of your hands. You should be required to wear a "public service cam" during all of your hours on duty and log all data and be immediately terminated and harshly fined for any missing data. As I see it in my area the police do not need guns or armor they need mops and brooms and a pen to fill out paperwork. If real crime happens here its by the states attorneys informants and the police only show up to clean up and fill out the "report"

Originally posted by seeashrink
reply to post by sassyncute

 

You know, I'm trying to figure you out. I went to your profile and there is nothing there. So, I decided to read all of your post on ATS.
I still contend that you have no depth, but you can be somewhat complicated. It's difficult to believe that you have a degree in psychology, but that would explain some of your sterile, detached, coldness. That, along with no belief in God, if I understand you correctly.
I believe that you are in your mid to late 20s, possibly early 30s. You judge quickly because life hasn't kicked you around enough yet. I'm also guessing that both parents are still alive and keep you stroked when life throws a wrinkle at you, so you can come back with positive reassurance and affirmation.
I hope that life continues to go well for you, because arrogance makes for a long, hard fall.

Shrink

"SS, I am sorry that you are feeling so railed and attacked. that was not my intention but I do say what I mean and do not beat around the bush. I am in my early 30's, 31 to be exact. Both my parents are not alive as you state, they died when I was 17"
As for my so called pampered life. I council and talk to some of the most dangerous men and women in the world. For example, in 2004 I privately interviewed and talked to Michael Ross a well known Serial Killer in New England who killed 8 females. In 2006 I had six sessions with Dennis Neilson a serial killer in England,

Sassyncute




Listen big guy. Time I started reading your post I knew that you worked in a union state. No such animal here in the south. Before you start advising someone that they are being had, you should get you facts straight. I would have expected more from a 25 year veteran. Things are done differently in the south. Here you work at the liesure of the Sheriff who can fire you for no reason at all. Look it up and then shut up.

Seeashrink.








How Ironic, wouldn't you say. LOL

[edit on 25-7-2010 by bull621]