How I got off the grid. You can too!

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posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 05:49 AM
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Nice story although I feel sorry for your kids being home schooled and missing out on a real education and the whole school "experience" unless of course you do intend to allow them a proper education at some point ?




posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 06:15 AM
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Alright, to reply to two people's comments.

To get thrown in jail, one must be found guilty of something in front of a jury. I do not think that right has been taken yet.

I will stress this again, jury nullification is the last right of an oppressed citizenry. Investigate it and spread the info.

Now for the home schooling denigration. Unless you have 30 children or more, home schooling will get you a better teacher/child ratio than 99% of schools. Also, with the internet, curriculums and teaching tools are easy to acquire. Finally, I learned more from my father and mother than I did in the public school system. Hell, they were still teaching 3 states of matter when I was in high school though the 4th was discovered decades earlier, which of course being a smarty pants I kept telling the science teachers from 4th grade through freshman year.


OP, inspirational and if you get the chance, get the Dune series of books. Quite the interesting read if you go over the books with an eye on the differing governmental systems and philosophic ideas.

Fear, is the mind killer.

Peace from a studying sovereign(freman-from the Dune Series) in the Republic of Wisconsin, in the unincorporated united Republics of America.

I am not a corporation, I am a human being. I am not a person (as defined by UCC code) I am an individual. I am not a 14th amendment citizen of the incorporated properties of the Federal jurisdiction of Washington DC, I am a sovereign with all rights endowed by my creator.

This is my article of truth.

God Bless.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 06:50 AM
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reply to post by NoRegretsEver
 


Thank you.

I'm starting to research this. Strawman/Freedom/Legally getting off of the grid.

Astounding information.


DishonourMary Croft - Summary of HOW I CLOBBERED EVERY BUREAUCRATIC CASH-CONFISCATORY AGENCY KNOWN TO MAN
Wed, 06/18/2008 - 22:27 — Arthur Cristian
Summary of HOW I CLOBBERED EVERY BUREAUCRATIC CASH-CONFISCATORY AGENCY KNOWN TO MAN
By Mary Elizabeth Croft

On page 8, Noticing banks demanding they verify the existence of a valid debt:

“If it makes you feel any better, you’re not alone - the credit card banks think I owe them $40,000.

I know that I don’t really owe them, I just don’t know how to prove it.”

Lo and behold, she said, “You just send the letters.” I leapt from my chair - my prayer had indeed been answered - ask and ye shall receive. She then produced a series of letters, the drift of which was to request the bank to provide me with three things:

1. validation of the debt (the actual accounting);

2. verification of their claim against me (a sworn affidavit or even just a signed invoice); and,

3. a copy of the contract binding both parties.

I was to write that, as soon as I received these three documents, I would be happy to pay any financial obligation I might lawfully owe. The banks can’t validate the debt because they never sustained a loss; they can’t verify any claim against me because I am not the NAME they are billing - more on this later. They can’t produce a copy of the contract because one doesn’t exist. What exists is an unenforceable unilateral contract. What the banks refer to as ‘your contract with us’ is not a valid bilateral agreement since the four requirements of a lawful, binding contract were not met on the credit card ‘application’, namely:

1. Full Disclosure (we are not told that we are creating the credit with our signature);

2. Equal Consideration (they bring nothing to the table, hence they have nothing to lose);

3. Lawful Terms and Conditions (they are based upon fraud); and

4. Signatures of the Parties (corporations can’t sign because they can’t contract - they are legal
fictions).

My writing the letters worked for all but one account. [The bank sued and I went to court.] The District Court ‘Judge’ asked me my name. I responded, “If I tell you, will I have entered into a contract with you?” He became irate. I knew I was onto something. He furiously said, “I’m going to ask you again; what is your name?” I said the same thing again and was literally, bodily tossed from court. On my way out I told the bailiff, “I believe I hit a nerve.” I was ecstatic.


Source (go here there's more, much more) loveforlife.com.au...

We are all bailing out the banks. Well it's time to declare some of us are not going to play anymore of this monopoly game.




"When you become your sovereign, and envoke the same law that they use against you, it changes everything."





[edit on 24-7-2010 by ofhumandescent]



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 07:06 AM
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The sovereignty concept is fascinating. I have a scenario that contains a question:

If I have set myself up as a "Freeman upon the land" and I have my 40 acres, my self sufficient cabin, power supply, etc. and I am truly living "off the grid" as per the discussion here, etc., what happens when another sovereign person or group decides that they want what is mine?

What happens when my neighbor decides that he and his heavily armed cadre of associates decide that they need my land, property, belongings and move on me in an aggressive fashion?

Now, I have a right to defend myself and my property and, as an independent individual, I have the responsibility to prepare to do so. When, however, my neighbor is ready, able and willing to overmaster my ability to ward off the threat and retain my rights & property, do I have standing to call 911 and ask for employees of the state to intervene?

To me, it would follow that, if I decide to claim/retain "sovereign" status, a consequence of that would be that the corporate state may choose to ignore my request to apply its authority when I request it to do so.

Can you (so to speak) 'have your cake, and eat it too'? Tell me if and how I am wrong.

Thanks!



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 07:25 AM
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reply to post by MMPI2
 


Well in that scenario, a 225 grain to the head would be a deterrent.


So, what you are saying is that because a sovereign, that would still pay certain taxes, should not benefit from those taxes?

Tell me, what taxes pay for the police or better yet a sheriff? Since police have no real authority over sovereigns, they only apply to 14th amendment citizens.

Tell me, was there no sheriffs prior to the income tax? Prior to the property tax?

Or did we as a nation just completely fend for ourselves?

Of course to me, I can fend for myself. Now, as a pusher of these ideals, I would say the sovereign could hire me to do the defending. And in a society of law, whereby a court system would be necessary to enforce only those transgressions of what you speak, would be much cheaper in all regards.

There is one law, to not harm another or infringe on another rights of Life, Liberty or Property.

I think you bring to the table a strawman argument in a thread on the strawman discussion. Kind of funny, kind of.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 09:01 AM
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@NoRegretsEver- GOOD For YOU!!! You are now, officially. a HUMAN, NOT 'an eater"!! Feels GOOD, to be a producer, doesn't it?? Living on YOUR LAND?? Sleeping, in YOUR HOME???
Congratulations, YOU done good!
Now- if another 250 million Americans, would get-off their fat-a$$es!!!
Good Luck, and best wishes!! I hope YOU, survive, The Great Collapse(TM)!! I'm planning on it, also!



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 09:33 AM
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Originally posted by endisnighe
reply to post by MMPI2
 


Well in that scenario, a 225 grain to the head would be a deterrent.


So, what you are saying is that because a sovereign, that would still pay certain taxes, should not benefit from those taxes?

Tell me, what taxes pay for the police or better yet a sheriff? Since police have no real authority over sovereigns, they only apply to 14th amendment citizens.

Tell me, was there no sheriffs prior to the income tax? Prior to the property tax?

Or did we as a nation just completely fend for ourselves?

Of course to me, I can fend for myself. Now, as a pusher of these ideals, I would say the sovereign could hire me to do the defending. And in a society of law, whereby a court system would be necessary to enforce only those transgressions of what you speak, would be much cheaper in all regards.

There is one law, to not harm another or infringe on another rights of Life, Liberty or Property.

I think you bring to the table a strawman argument in a thread on the strawman discussion. Kind of funny, kind of.



I think I understand you. But I keep going back to the notion that sovereignty is an either / or proposition.

Either you opt into the system, or you do not. Either you pay all taxes applied to you by the state or you pay none.

The reason I belabor this point is because I can just hear a pro-corporation federal official using this as an argument against me or you as Freemen:

"Yeah, ya'll want to pick and choose when you are a part of the corporation. That ain't how it works, buddy-boy. The next time your house catches on fire, or the next time one of ya'll Freemen has a heart attack, don't dial 911 'cause you didn't pay no money for it!"

I would understand better, I think, if there were some actual mechanism to indicate what component of the "grid" or corporation a Freeman could opt into without abrogating his/her Freeman status.

Specifically, what taxes or fees can a Freeman choose to pay and still take advantage of beneficial aspects of the grid?



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 09:38 AM
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you made it mad congrats! thats like the dream of all the nice people.
i guess im walking down this path too



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 09:41 AM
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www.youtube.com...

The video I have linked is a canadian freeman explaining some of our rights as human beings. I dont have time to watch them again to point out exactly where in the video he describes the differences about peace officers and law enforcement. But anyhow alot of good information from this guy.

Basically police take 2 oaths:
#1 - to uphold the peace
#2 - to enforce the law

and the problem is they seem to forget about the first oath they take and concentrate on the second oath. Freeman or not you are entitled to the protection of a peace officer.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by NoRegretsEver
 


Hello,

So, after watching the Youtube videos you kindly posted and following a few links here there and everywhere, I have got my head around the basics to being a freeman. It appears that one would need to study the law of commerce to a considerable depth in order to fully remove themselves from the legal bondage we are born into.

Please forgive what might be stupid questions, but you really have piqued my interest.

1. Would a freeman still hold a passport, or is this considered living on the 'grid'?

2. Being a freeman isn't just about becoming a sovereign being again, but is self-sufficiency just as important?

3. Can you truly live life without credit? Even renting requires a credit check. When looking for a home, is it best to enter into a contract with the home owner and no one else?

4. What about health care. I live in the UK and we have a national health system that on the whole works very well. Possibly socialist in its ideals, but way better than an insurance based system. Do you pay for health insurance?

I will stop there as I could go on with questions! Your thread started me on a little Google journey and there are movements in the UK advocating this way of life. Reclaim your sovereign self. I like this idea.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 11:09 AM
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Originally posted by Discotech
Nice story although I feel sorry for your kids being home schooled and missing out on a real education and the whole school "experience" unless of course you do intend to allow them a proper education at some point ?


Proper Education, lol.

I remember the bullies, I remember the drugs, and I remember the
teachers that came in wrote down the reading lesson and assignment
on the board and then sat down and read a newspaper.

There were good teachers too, there were classrooms that we were
not terrorized by thugs in, but I think anyone can find the current
book list at the schools and order them or sign up for Moodle on
the internet and have the same or better curriculum.

Moodle would end up with her kids having a better education.

Socially they might end up a bit out of place, but to be honest
I'd rather have them act more like my neighbors in that rural
place then the programmed rats in the urban maze of counter
culture.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 11:24 AM
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Good for you for getting out of the concrete jungle.

However, isn't it a bit naive to think you are really off the grid? If you pay for things like electricity and internet, you are not off the grid. To me, "off the grid" means you are completely independent with regards to water, electric, plumbing, food, etc.

Also, I'm not familiar with the freeman concept/movement. Try not paying taxes. You will eventually go to jail. If you think your home can't be taken because you say you made a contract with a person and not a corporation, think again. Do you own the title/deed to the home? No. You are renting. Have you researched the deed to make sure there aren't any liens or claims to it, or back taxes owed? Once you do finally own your home having paid off your mortgage and you have possession of a free and clear deed, you still have to pay property taxes every year. The government can take your property if you fail to pay property taxes. They can also take it through eminent domain.

Someone else asked, what are you doing for medical and dental for you and your kids? What is your plan? Go to an ER where, by law, they must treat people who can't pay? What if you need expensive medications on a monthly basis? How about a new crown or a root canal? I suppose you will tell me there are free medical and dental programs available for low-income people. If that is the case, you are not living off the grid. You are living off the generosity of either charity or off the government teet.

What do you do in the winter months when you can't grow your own garden? Are you canning the food you grow? Do you rely on the generosity of others? What if that generosity dries up? Will you get on welfare/food stamps?



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 11:45 AM
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reply to post by Ex_MislTech
 


Yup. Public school is the best place to get drugs and get laid. To learn something though? Not so much.

The only reason half of the kids bothered to show up at my public middle and high schools were to either buy drugs, sell drugs, pick up their underage girlfriends, or stab a rival in the face.

The other half just didnt bother to show up.

One guy might have actually been there to learn. His family moved after the 5 ass beating he got in a month.

Yay, public school.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 12:49 PM
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reply to post by NoRegretsEver
 


That is no doubt the way to run your shop. Get your strawman down solid, and then take everything back that they took from you i approve very much so. As soon as I procure the proper amount of funds for myself I shall be following alongside you in your endeavor. It pleases me that there are people on point out there...



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 01:53 PM
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While I congratulate the poster's move, and initiative and luck or precognition to visualize and obtain a better place of residence; this isn't "off the grid".

Off the Grid:

No credit cards, debit cards, bank accounts, stock, or any other financial accounts or holding.

No insurance of any kind.

No voter's registration, driver's licence, passport, visa or other legal identifiers.

No phone, newspaper or magazine subscriptions, mailbox (not even a post office box or rent-a-box), cable, satellite dish, cellphone, GPS, Internet, radio, television, or any other electronic communication or entertainment device.

No rent or mortgage, city water, sewage, garbage pickup, property taxes, school taxes, state or federal income taxes (hence no income), no bartering clubs (that's income tax reportable too!), nor any other utility, service or income.

No children! You simply can't be completely off the grid with children.

No transportation of any kind.

No store bought goods, especially toys, games and clothing. RFID tags come in active or passive states. Active RFID tags can talk via Internet and can combine all your data in a central location.

If ANYBODY knows where you are - you're not off the grid.

Oh, and Frodo's ring of invisibility might help - UNTIL they find you anyway with Heat Seekers!

================================================

Yep, police raided my next door neighbor because Heat Seekers spotted heat in an outbuilding. He raised the baby chicks in there! DUH!

================================================

Moral of the story - I don't think it's possible to be "off the grid" anymore.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 02:24 PM
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NoRegretsEver....
You are inspiration to me!!!!!!!!! A Hero !!!!

Don't ever look back ....this is true freedom in a sense......

2 acres!!!! Awesome!!!!



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 03:18 PM
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Great story.

Worth reading every letter of it.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 03:28 PM
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Would just like to thank the OP and others who have contributed to this thread, I have spent most of today reading up on the free man of the land forums after reading this thread.

Im hope to get out of the UK next year as I have had enough of this place and the things I have learned today will help me make the move.

Many thanks



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 03:45 PM
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I know it's hard to believe anyone getting away without paying income tax, but it's unconstitutional. Federal government has the right to print its own money to pay for its societies needs, not borrow from banks and put the interest on the people which our taxes pay for. We have had an idea driven into our heads for so long we cant see anything but. Here's a link about a guy who beat the tax man, they took him to court 22 times and finally the courts told the tax man if they did it again they would be charged.

www.prolognet.qc.ca...



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 11:45 PM
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reply to post by Discotech
 


As far as my kids are concerned, I had to choose between the streets of NY or the gravel road of the country. I chose the country. Here my children fish, help with the garden, they are learning skills here of exactly what I wanted them to learn, and that is to be freeman on the land, and they are.

As far as school is concerned. No, I don't teach them that Christopher Columbus discovered America, when I decided to home school I couldn't believe how much they DIDN'T know, and I mean as far as the truth.

My children know about their rights, thats what they study, they know about the system, of course they know math, and reading, but WHAT they read is different, I am giving them the tools to remove themselves from the hive mind, and showing them that they have the right to be happy, to respect family, to help others, and that no one, not even me can take that from them.

They are not missing anything by not going to public school. As far as friends, they practically know every one in my town, because while I'm helping, their helping. I chose to start a cycle, a cycle of free people. My children could never be indoctrinated, because they know better, they can never be told that they have no rights, because they know better.

My children can pitch a tent, start a fire, read a book, do a mathematical equation, catch a fish to cook on the pit, and then look at the stars and tell you the constellations. Even tell you the difference between a plane and a fly-by satellite.

So, NO my children are not missing out on anything. Oh and BTW they can shoot a gun and physically defend themselves if needed, including my 12 yr old daughter.

When I said off the grid, I guess you can say that it included that if we had a solar storm today, we can live happily, without the need for what most will die without. I always wondered why I was born and sometimes I think that I am giving back. I have told my kids that they are not like everyone else, but not for one second should they think that they are not special, I tell them that with the amount of information they have, the person they choose to be with will have to bring a hell of allot more to the table.

So many kids today, that are NOT missing out, wind up with the problems that made me want to leave NY in the first place. Drugs, teen pregnancy, crime, gangs. Of course I cannot tell the future and say that I know that it could never happen to my kids, but I can say it sure will be much harder.

Peace to you...





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