Are you an alien abductee? Here's a Can of Worms...

I forgot to add, I don't think much of that Novak guy's thesis or whatever it is. It's not so much a can of worms as a can of crap.

reply to post by wigit


Thank you for both your contributions to this thread.

They have both been absolutely and totally USELESS but thank you just the same.

A can of crap... You're funny wigit, you really are !

reply to post by SonoftheSun

I wish I could write something long and flowery and use big words like a proper brainy writer but I'm pretty crap at that. I just added my 10 pence worth which is - Yes, I am another 1 to add to that long list of folk experiencing those same things that bug you. I say yes to all on that questionnaire except the missing time one. Have I been abducted by aliens? I bloody hope not.

I say Mr Novak's piece is crap because I don't agree with a lot of what he's written there about "abductees" - WHATEVER THEY ARE.

The severe and harsh responses toward skeptical scrutiny of these claims are usually justified on the grounds that abductees are victims of psychological and physical traumas at the hands of terrifying alien creatures. According to them, they should be protected from any unpleasant questioning of their claims, much less be asked to provide proof.

That's just one example. I never heard an abductee asking for protection from questioning. From what I've seen, usually the severe and harsh responses come from the sceptical side of the argument. This is usually in the form of "prove it, CAN'T? well shutup then."

reply to post by wigit


Hello again wigit,

Sorry I pushed you a little bit but I wanted you to elaborate on your answers, which you did. And I am happy you did.

Not agreeing is ok. Imagine a world where we'd all be on the same track, how boring it would be. Different opinions are necessary, and healthy.

This is how we learn. Thank you for you reply.

reply to post by SonoftheSun


You've nothing to apologise for. I wasn't offended. If anything, you sounded a bit fed up and I swear for a second that pan-faced avatar of yours let out a weary sigh. I had a good laugh at that.

Back to this can. What do you make of Mr Novak's rantings, I mean writings?

reply to post by wigit


Hi again wigit !

Well...Jack is a favorite of mine hehe...

As for M. Novak, he does raise interesting points. You see, there are many abductees, many. But I do not think that all that claim that they are abductees actually are. As I look for answers for myself, I am fully aware that there are others that are in the same process. An honest quest.

It's important to see the other side of the medal, so to speak, different points of view. He attacks credulity, faith and lack of proof. It is serious personal questioning and a sign of maturity to look at those with integrity.

I know I have. My conclusions are my own.

Nice talking to you again.

Originally posted by Unity_99
reply to post by Unknown Soldier

 

As an lifelong expeirencer and having my 18 year son share his with me as well, I think I'm going to skip that video, for its probably not my cup of tea.

So you refuse to explore other explanations? I have someone close to me that is an "abductee" and he remains open to other explanations to what these beings are. Astral, Inter dimensional, time travelers perhaps from inside the earth we do not know. There is no proof these beings are from another planet or star system. But you have the pre conceived notion it is Aliens and you made up you're mind. I have worked with abductees and i will tell you they are being brainwashed to think these beings are enlightening them and come from the Zeta or Bellatrix systems.

Here he is talking about it

Call it what you want
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...


[edit on 10-8-2010 by Unknown Soldier]

reply to post by Unknown Soldier


Hello Unknown Soldier,

I'll start by saying that I have seen some of your replies in other threads and I appreciated them. I remember one in perticular where your reply was really hilarious !!

Jus' saying I like your style.

Now, the abductee phenomena. Here's how I see it.

Yep, some people are waaaaaaay out there. Just like in any phenomena. Some are charlatans, some are liars, some are mentally ill and some are, in their beliefs deep within, true experiencers.

I have asked myself why they contacted me. I know I'm not a charlatan, I'm not a liar, I don't have a mental illness. So, why?

Now, let me bring an opinion.

I've read many threads from this board. I've read from other forums, aside from ATS. There is ONE question that ALWAYS pops up. Often.

Why don't they make contact?

How can we assume that they would make contact in a "human" way. In the last hundred years, everyone can see the advancements we've made. In every field.

For fun, let's call it evolution and say that we've evolved that much in one century. Now imagine in a thousand years. Ten thousand years. One hundred thousand years. A million years. Honestly, I don't think we'll still be using cellulars when we get there. A billion years...

Why do we assume that they would contact us in the "way" we would contact them, with our present technology? Telepathy on the other hand...

Food for thought...

Another point that I come across quite often is this one: The Prime Directive. From Star Trek, we all agree. But if we assume that this is indeed a case of prime directive, how could they avoid it through a loop hole?

Many say that they have an alien soul, many remember past alien lives, many (and here I mean MANY) feel that they are here at this very specific time in history, incarnated in order to help for future events...I ask...

Wouldn't that be a perfect loop hole?

Food for thought...

No facts. No proofs. Just an opinion...

There is a bigger reason why they don't make open contact, yet anyway. Its up to us really, earth is a testing ground. Its state is a physical manifestation of our consciousness in a holographic universe. Ufology is not a conservative pastime, real experiences, if they actually can remember and experience conscious contact, have very unusual, out of the box experiences, it doesnt conform itself to what skeptics wish. And those experiencing this look for markers in others, they don't look for the same things others do.

[edit on 10-8-2010 by Unity_99]

reply to post by SonoftheSun


Great post. You really crystallized a lot of ideas that have been rattling around in my head for a long, long time now.

You have given me food for thought, and I am grateful for it.

A long time ago I met some abductees. We had a nice long and interesting conversation. When they left I began to experience some really strange things. Something I couldn't see was in the room with me, or so it felt. And I'm quite positive they never had the opportunity to put something in my tea.

Too long to go into but whatever IT IS, it's really there. But I'm still left with all the same questions I had before I met them.

They felt the same. Even though they saw what appeared to be aliens, and interacted with them, they still said, "I don't know what IT IS."

Originally posted by SonoftheSun
reply to post by SaosinEngaged

 

12 different dimensions and 4 different universes?

Who knows?

But until it's a proven fact, unfortunately, it's just speculations. That also applies to alien abductions and so many other subjects !!!

I don't know I really don't like the way you treat the subject. It is very negative in respect to those that have lived something so overtaking and so much like a rape. You seriously have no idea how bad this is

And I do not like that you are so sure it is speculation. It is not. There are many different sources that display evidence. As usual it is always quietly buried.

I believe that you are not denying ignorance, you are mainly creating it, and trying to make people believe it. Your point of view. I really don't care , but I can tell you it is false.

Great point, Wigit.

We can't know what or who is behind this. It may not even be a what or who. It might be something deep within our own DNA that manifests itself through the experience of abduction. There is no way to say for sure.

I try to remain positive. I have had long gaps between experiences, some of which have lasted more than a decade. My experiences are also less negative overall. I don't remember them any better, but the signs are there and I feel less dread than I did as a child or young adult.

I know I don't want to be famous. I know I am not trying to convince anyone of anything or lead anyone based on some super secret knowledge. I know that I try not to lie, which means, I must admit that I am uncertain about everything; even my own memories.

Strip away the pretense and plot, and what have you got? It is an experience that "feels" real, at least to a point. All it leaves me with are questions, and a genuine sense of purpose that I try to act on locally, with my own children, family and social community.

I too am hugely skeptical that we are dealing with extraterrestrials.

reply to post by SonoftheSun


I don't know if I'm an abductee or not. I answered yes to many of your questions and I think I might have been abducted as a child.

But I think that the best way to think of alien abduction and UFOs is not in terms of ET and alien technology but in terms of shamanic initiation and Jungian archetypes and parapsychology/parasociology and altered states of consciousness.

[edit on 11-8-2010 by Student X]

Reading this text made me seriously mad.

I am to believe that most of you do not believe in aliens. That is fine with me. But you are not going to change my point of view or my experiences on the matter.

And I had enough experience in this lifetime, to say to you that you are wrong. Thats enough for me see you all later!

reply to post by KpxMarMoTT


My experiences are definitely "alien", but I can't know for sure that the alien experience isn't a "cover" for something else. If these experiences come from within the earth, or from another dimension entirely, does that make them any less "alien" than if they come from another star system? What if they are a manifestation of another aspect of humanity, communicating through hyperspace and through our own nervous systems? How is that any less alien than our day to day experience of "reality".

What I do know for sure is that people have been claiming these experiences for centuries. Some have called it "alien", others "demonic". Still others have apparently called it enlightenment, and built religions around it. Whatever it is, there are more good questions than there are good answers. Maybe it's the fault of our approach in that we try to "dogmatize" the experience before we truly experience it?

reply to post by 0zzymand0s


Yeah I agree, I think we are dealing with aliens to the human ego, not aliens to the earth. They are autonomous forces/patterns in the collective psyche (archetypes), and because the fundamental nature of reality is mind-stuff, archetypes can temporarily manifest in physical/energy form. Such forms are symbolic because the archetype itself is formless. The language of the psyche is symbol.

"One of the first to explore the notion of mythology manifesting as physical reality was psychoanalyst Carl Jung, who in 1957 published the book Flying Saucers: A Modern Myth of Things Seen in the Sky. More recently, authors Jacques Vallee (Dimensions: A Casebook of Alien Contact) and Keith Thompson (Angels and Aliens: UFOs and the Mythic Imagination) and folklorists Peter Rojcewicz and Thomas Bullard have written about the parallels among UFOs, folklore, and mythology.

“Space-Age myth” does not imply that UFO sightings or encounters with angels, aliens, fairies, sprites, elves, or demons are fantasies. Rather, it suggests that some of these experiences may literally be psychophysical, blurring conventional boundaries between objective and subjective realities. Some may object that this proposal doesn’t account for the physical traces associated with some UFO reports, but this misinterprets what Jung and others have proposed. They suggest that the manifest world emerges from mind, that is, that mind shapes matter. Where have we heard this before?

In his book Global Mind Change, former IONS President Willis Harman discussed three basic ways of looking at the world. He called the current Western scientific worldview “materialistic monism,” or “M1.” Within M1, everything—both matter and energy—is made of a single substance. From matter emerges everything, including the brain-generated illusion called mind. In M1, angels and aliens walking through walls are fine plot points for an episode of The Twilight Zone, but they are impossible in the real world.

In M1, UFOs are conceivable, but only in terms of hard, physical spacecraft with humanoid pilots. Most of the modern technological world was created based on M1 assumptions, so it carries enormous persuasive power. But the whole panoply of noetic experiences defy materialistic explanations, suggesting that M1 is an incomplete worldview. Detailed taxonomies of these anomalies are described by all cultures; they include, among others, the Hindu siddhis, the Catholic charisms, Sufi attainments, and, in indigenous societies, shamanic magic.

Harman’s second worldview, M2, represents dualism, which assumes two fundamentally different kinds of substances in the universe, matter and mind. Many scientists today reject dualism because it begs the problem of how two deeply different substances could interact at all. In addition, it seems lavish to require the universe to maintain (at least) two distinct essences, when it would be far simpler to have only one.

The third worldview, M3, is transcendental or mental monism, which Harman argued is the source of both the perennial wisdom and the emerging worldview of the twenty-first century. In M3, consciousness is primary, and matter and energy are emergent properties of consciousness. M3 accommodates everything that M1 and M2 allow for, as well as rogue phenomena like telepathic ETs, observation-shy UFOs, and collective mind–manifested UFOs. Evidence in favor of M3 has been slowly amassing for over a century. Such recent books as Irreducible Mind, Entangled Minds, and Measuring the Immeasurable (see review 0n page 41) discuss the empirical evidence in detail, ranging from psychic phenomena to creative genius to mind-body interactions to evidence suggestive of reincarnation."

[...]

www.paradigmresearchgroup.org...

[edit on 11-8-2010 by Student X]

Well this turns out to be an interesting thread !!

I appreciate every single one of you that have taken the time to reply, the time to share your thoughts, your experiences.

Aside for one comment or two, (one of them being mine), there is respect in these discussions.

It is highly refreshing !!

I am a believer, an experiencer and even though I put this thread forward, there are some comments that I have made that I wouldn't make anymore. Part of life. I learn, I start adhering to ideas and points of view that were non present not too long ago, and it is, a wonderful process.

It's always a charm to see people exchange ideas, concepts, in a respectful manner.

Thank you !

A cloned version doesn't have the natural/cultural basis of personality and actions. A clone would only bias the study to only relate to basic bodily function and body parts, but they wouldn't know what to teach the clone. Even if they did, it wouldn't be the same as an actual person.