Yup. Out weights all the other facts that are well-known and not hard to dig up, about Hussein thumbing his nose at the world for 12 years, training terrorists during that time (even had a passenger plane for training, go figure!), called for the destruction of America and Israel, and inconsequential to me, Hussein has aspirations of being the force with which to be reckoned in the middle east.
Yup, all that is outweighed by who might gain, and who was linked to whom during a different time and political condition.
Another thing that out weighs the security of the U.S. citizens, Nans, is your country making a flecking KILLING under the table with Iraq, right? You people couldn't defend the arch de triumph from a Boy Scout troop, but the French are financial mercenaries.

Yeah, whatever. Bunch of hypocrites.

Scenario: The war is accomplished in less than 2 weeks, preferably without Britain so as to take some heat off of Blair, although it'd be great to have the U.S. and British soldiers fighting together again. Devastating destruction of the enemy military while little destruction of civilian lives, and most confirmed at a later date to have been atrocities ordered by Hussein in an attempt to frame the U.S. (although some of you dimwits would go to your deaths believing we did it). France, Germany and China is found to have been doing serious under the table dealing with Hussein in violation of U.N. sanctions.

[Edited on 13-3-2003 by Thomas Crowne]

For an unassuming white guy, you assume a lot. I think your statements were out of place and being a Moderator and all, one would think you would know that much. Still I see your point, to an extent. It is to cover up the truth and disclose the things that make your life and your country all fine and dandy, when in fact it is not. The Carlyle Group is a group I have been warned about by many people. Those who did the warning were very skeptical of this group's agenda. I no very little about this organization but am glad the Nans pointed it out to use ignorant Americans. I sometimes forget about this company, but I soon realize it just maybe the string attaching Bin Laden to Bush. Not to mention a friend of mine said he had seen a picture of Bush and Bin Laden as teenagers standing next to a limo in some field. He has since tried to find it, but was unable to. The picture was probably removed by the website it was posted on for security reasons. I known one thing about Carlyle Group, they have a very vital oil venture in Iraq that Nans was mentioning, called Unocoal, if it's not Uncoal than it is something close to it. They want to build a pipeline through the Caucasus from the Caspian Sea to the shores of Basra in Iraq. That pipeline is the very same pipeline Russia has been working to create for years now. This subject deserves our attention and our collective research.

No, nothing I've said is assumed, and there is nothing in my posts that are inappropriate for a moderator. What, do you think that only non-mods are allowed to speak?

Or is it that you can find nothing else at which to attack. You respond with alleged pictures of Bush and Osama as children (Yeah, whatever. You can't find the pictures because its bull), more about Carlyle and something that you can see my point, to some extent or some lame crap. Thanks for acknowledging that maybe the French, Germans and Russians are more interested in their financial interests than the well-being of my family, would rather protect a murderous despot for money than assist us in protecting our children. Keep yourself blind, pal, and in a few weeks, turn off the television so you don't have to be confronted with some startling facts after we go into Iraq and uncover the truths many want hidden.

It still doesn't refute the fact that you compeletly changed the subject. I love to see the Mods talk, just as long as they are reasonable and moderate. Not delusional and skeptic to the ideas of others. This is a place where people talk about their ideas right????? Well then why are you, as a working Moderator, undermining and even sabotaging the topics at hand??? I think it is because you don't like something about that type of talk, whatever talk that may be. Sorry for getting on to you, but when I see faults I point them out. I can be harsh like that. I just don't like ignorance towards perception. Finding your way out of perception through deception is proof that you are in denial. So you must ask yourself Thomas, "Is this what I do?" and see what you get. 9 times out of 10 the human mind has decieved to please in order to maintain, that's the way your mind works. It is the abiltity to get pass that instinct that will allow are minds to be free from enslavement. You See?

carlyle investement is an international group.
There are also some french political leaders involved in Carlyle. I just try to show you HOW, NWO conspiracy may finance his activities. I also think that Carlyle is in fact a screen society made to develop non-lethal weapons and drugs to population control. It's not a coincidence if carlyle principals activities are :

WEAPONS and DRUGS

I think that AVENTIS Medical serve of experimental laboratory for NWO researsh.
A "coincidence", If your read KEN FOLETT novel "TRIPLE" (A novel about cloning and political scandals (NWO)), The clinic of the experiments is called AVANTIME clinic.

As well as that, I think you give them too much credit on controlling situations. In the eighties when Bin Laden was being aided by the west, as well as Hussein, the political terrain was much different worldwide, and was very fluid as it is now. Twenty years from now, assuming there is a twenty years from now, we may find out that by taking down Saddam this year we helped bring about another ruthless dictator in another country.

A-V, I'm glad to see you don't mind seeing mods enter into conversations. That's very nice of you to allow that. Mighty big of you, as a matter of fact.

You, like Nans, because of your usual line of reasoning and the direction you go, leads one to believe they already see where you want to be. Likewise, if Nans goes to the same place 99 times, it would be very gracious of her to overlook the natural conclusion one might go with her writing.

Also, sir, you would do well not to play with the "ignorant" word. It might blow your own foot clean off.

I'm sorry this went sour and I take all the responsibilty. I don't want to argue and I think this could turn around real quickly with the help of our maturity. I don't have a position to state other than my own, which is my word. The Word Is Mine. That's why I hold myself responsible, for I acted, right???? So I see the conflict and I'm going to embrace it with a caring and focused attitude. I wish this wasn't how it is but, hey this is all a part of life. I sure didn't mean to sound sarcastic when I said I enjoy the Mods talking in the forums. That Sir, was genuine. No matter how corny those statements sound, they still reflect my will. So please Sir, don't think I am trying to talk down on you. I may talk down on my government, but I don't talk down on it's citizens, not in the degrading ways I do to the State Department, or the CIA. I have a choice to critize my government and it's crimes. You can't deny that. So if that is why we have a problem then don't have a problem with me, have a problem with my idea. I don't rag on you do I???? I don't think you have a right to call me ignorant. Yeah, I am, because ignorance is the simple fact that you are not aware of, that's all. So yeah, I am ignorant about a lot of things. It seems you had ideas of my ignorance too, but when given a chance to expose such ignorance you declined and would rather use the Bush policy of just assuring without confirming.

About Nans: I think she is the center of a witch hunt here on this board, and let's face it we all know it is because she is French. You know, I came on these boards hoping to find other nationals so I could reach the rest of the world. I mean, what would you people do to a Palestinian???? Would you even let him stay on???? I have seen so many racist remarks about French people on this site and personally I think it is sick. Half of this country is French!!!!!!! So wake up and stop this harassment opon her, cause God is looking down on us all. This continuing crusade against anything anti-anti is becoming a little obscene. If I am a menace to this board because I speak of the truth and virtue then I would not want to be a well known persona for this board. Yet I know that is not the case, and I am only doing what is called the dirty job. You know how it goes, "Someone's got to do it." You See???

[Edited on 19-3-2003 by Abraham Virtue]

I would like to extend my hand to youfor a handshake and an attempt to better understand your position, A-V. After all, chances are, both our positions are wrong for the most part while key points of each other's arguement is more on target than the other wants to admit.

In other words, what the heck do we know? We are doing nothing more than trying to get to the bottom of that which we are no in control of, anyway.

The key to that issue is to work it into your advantage by finding a means to an end. The pursuit of knowledge is endless and our dead ends in life are all about that pursuit. Our integrity and will to strive for that knowledge is what we set us all FREE. You See?

I agree, Sir.

But, about that Frenchie....

The thing is that Americans can still *do* something about it...If they come to know the info that gets dug up by people like the researchers here. That's the real trick though, isn't it?

However, once informed, US Citizens can still band together to do what must be done to stop the decline of freedom that's been gripping the US since before most of us were even born. The People must come to realize what has been lost over the lifetimes prior to their own generation & see what continues to get taken away even within their own span of memory.

OK, M-D, what do you think the American people will up and do?

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
OK, M-D, what do you think the American people will up and do?

The americans are paradoxals peoples :

You suspect your own governement to hide secret, to make a conspiracy against his own people... ...
But you will defend it until death...

In fact I still come here because I'm amused with your "innocence". Americans are like child.
But child playing with matches can be dangerous for the house,

I recently had to work with an american, a big man rich and powerfull in weapons bizness... But, no matters if he was powerfull or rich, the first thing I rematk about him is that he was a NAIF. An idiot :
They only thing this man understood was POWER...
He was like a Elefant in a porcelain store. A dinosaur, A T-REX... Archaik, Barbarian, stupid and unconsiousness.
He so angry me than I send him to a colleague pretexing that I still had too much work to "en plus" be a BAbylon-sitter.

My country is not a perfect country and we also have our conspirators, and it's far more difficult to fight them because they have read machiavelli and sade...

I'm not basically anti-american. I will even tell you than still 6 mounths ago, I would like to come and live in the USA, because of the freedom of enterprise...

In France, It dont matter if you are a winner, looser, a competent guy or a weird...
In France, Anything you try to do, you need relations.
If your father is not a higth burocrat, you have no chance to do thing.
75% of our politicians come from the same schools (ENA, HEC, Normal-Sup).

Anyway, I repeat it : In this thread I didn't want to have "encore" an antiamerican speach. Maybe an Anti-BUSH.

Originally posted by Nans DESMICHELS
You suspect your own governement to hide secret, to make a conspiracy against his own people.
But you will defend it until death.

All governments have conspiracies.

Some more than others.

Some are more habitual at secrets/conspiracies than others.

In the end, the question is, which government system is most worth defending?

In America, the politicans are all from the same breed just like they are in France. Sorry. It's like that everywhere and there is a reason for that. I have seen documents showing the close relations between Presidents of our country in the past, but have yet to see any proof so to speak. Then again, like MidnightDestroyer said, the whole aspect of having to show proof is the trick. That is the oldest trick in the book, used by the masters of the art. What art? Mind control. I don't think their has ever been a majority of honest politicans in any cabinet or assembly of government officals in any country for at 7000 years. That is just one man's opinion. What makes a politican is money. Not just money, but a greed for money. It takes millions of dollars to even have a chance in a presidential campaign, then you have to win. To win a presidential campaign one must answer the calls of the big businesses and tycoons in industry by taking their money and paying them back. Paying them back means obeying them and working the lobbyists interests ahead of the public's. So basically in today's world, money talks and you know the rest...........

Nans, it is good and healthy to not trust the government. I don't care what government to which we refer, they all involve power and authority and that makes most humans succomb to their worst frailties. But that does not mean that every move made by the government is bad, and that does not mean that responding to the attacks we've suffered is wrong.

It was easy to say "I support America" after the attacks, and it was easy to agree with Bush when he said we were going to track down and kill the terrorists and those who support them, but now is when it counts - when we are tracking down and killing those who are terrorists and those who support them.

My problem isn't when they do it, my problem will be when they pick and choose who they will and won't go after.

When Great Britain is ready to go after the IRA, we'd better be Johnny on the Spot!

Basically, the point I'm trying to get across, is that I will *not* support the current system of government until it gets turned back to the way that the People want it, not the way that the Elitist Minority has made it out to be.

I *will* support the People of the Nation & defend them to the utmost of my ability, even if it means taking on the Elitist government single-handedly...

...Although I still hope & pray that it won't come down to that extreme...



[Edited on 23-3-2003 by MidnightDStroyer]