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How did an Atlanta CEO end up dead at the hands of a New Jersey cop?

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posted on Jul, 23 2010 @ 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by 23refugee
A poor analogy on my part intended to highlight the folly of an overly authoritarian response to public sexual behavior. Sadly, young girls do get a bullet to the head for letting someone cop a feel, even here in the west. None of these mistakes are worthy of a death sentence.


Other than mooz countries where honor killings of women of all ages are fairly popular, where is it exactly public or staturoty policy to shoot a woman for being a victim of a welcomed or unwelcomed sexualassault. C'mon man, you can be bettern' this.




posted on Jul, 23 2010 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by 23refugee
Actually, the "hey, Sailor" is somewhat of a running joke with Mordant1.
Despite appearances, I've spoken with him and have never been treated with anything but respect. His expectations of behavior are consistent between gay and straight. Though his wit can be a little brutal, I still appreciate the lack of a double standard on that issue.

[edit on 23-7-2010 by 23refugee]

[edit on 23-7-2010 by 23refugee]


Thanks for the recognition that my prime directive is to treat others as I would prefer to be treated. Being truthful wins few friendsnowadays and sometimes results in undesired but necessary pain for all concerned. When you stick to the truth, the limits of lies become rather evident
I think that anyone can do anything they can be honest about and fully responsible for. If you cant do that, you should ease on back to what you can before you get in trouble. Plain and simple and it works every time. There is no need to live a private lie at public expense is all I'm saying, As for the rest, all of us have public lies to maintain and that's difficult enough.
As for 23, hope you are doing ok even if we disagree.



posted on Jul, 23 2010 @ 01:34 PM
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Originally posted by mordant1

Originally posted by 23refugee
A poor analogy on my part intended to highlight the folly of an overly authoritarian response to public sexual behavior. Sadly, young girls do get a bullet to the head for letting someone cop a feel, even here in the west. None of these mistakes are worthy of a death sentence.


Other than mooz countries where honor killings of women of all ages are fairly popular, where is it exactly public or staturoty policy to shoot a woman for being a victim of a welcomed or unwelcomed sexualassault. C'mon man, you can be bettern' this.

Here in Canada, there's a least one every month or so. While not condoned by this society, the parents responsible have the same authoritarian mindset to which I was refering.



posted on Jul, 23 2010 @ 01:38 PM
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Originally posted by mordant1
There is no need to live a private lie at public expense is all I'm saying, As for the rest, all of us have public lies to maintain and that's difficult enough.


I think people should allow people the safety to be who they are without having to hide it. I agree. But I do recognize that for some, the threat of violence is real, and I do understand why some conceal the truth about themselves.

I dont know if ALL of us have to maintain public lies, however. I think many of us do, but I am not sure why. Not all of us are in real danger for being ourselves. I think some people feel popularity or being accepted into some group is more important that being true to themselves, and that is, in my opinion, a big mistake.

If you have to lie about who you are to be accepted, you arent really being accepted. So you never get to enjoy real friendship. Its better, imo, to be true to yourself and be who you are, and be rejected where you are, and open yourself to the real possibility of meeting people who like you for who are truly are. You may not have tons of friends, but a few good friends are worth a million false ones.

Obviously for those who could be beaten or killed or harmed physically, this is harder to do, and I understand why they dont.



posted on Jul, 23 2010 @ 01:42 PM
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reply to post by 23refugee
 


You are telling me that in the great white north of canadania that caucasian girls are being killed for receiving adolescent gropes? Heck even convicted killers get a far lighter sentance AND get to live in a dormatory jail, yet the culverts are littered with young girls with pawprints on their boobies?
I'm surprized. I live less'n a hunnert miles from windsor and even used to go to london to get my hair cut, but I hear nothing about it!
I'll see if I can find something on youtube about this.



posted on Jul, 23 2010 @ 01:48 PM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


I'd like to think I share your compassion, but I probably don't.
That kind of lie is so selfish. How can anyone do such a thing?
I myself come from a violent place.
Try coming out of the closet in Appalachia.
Closeted married men should grow a spine.
Nothing weaker than causing all that pain and humiliation to avoid getting the same.



posted on Jul, 23 2010 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by mordant1
 


I said nothing about little white girls. Those little white girls out West that are getting married off at thirteen are an entirely different crime. Still the same authoritarian mindset, though.



posted on Jul, 23 2010 @ 02:06 PM
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reply to post by 23refugee
 


23Dude:
I for one have to give you some snaps, because you chose to go from where you were unlikely to get what you were looking for and seek it where it is not as much of a problem. At least you got off your butt and took charge of your life, which is a good thing. Not everyplace can be like everyplace else, and the freedom of going to where you can expect to be better accepted is highly underappreciated as an option. While you may not have fit so well it's hard to leave home and kinfolk. Dont think that being a breeder is one big happy friendly daisychain either. For most folks, life sucks pretty much, much of the time.



posted on Jul, 23 2010 @ 02:18 PM
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reply to post by 23refugee
 


I can understand your point. "If I could do it, anyone can," but I would remind you that not everyone has the same makeup. I worked in construction, and as a female, thats unusual. But I am also 5'10" and weigh 155, and am the size of the average male. Not exactly the same muscle/fat ratio, but certainly close. Not every female COULD do what I did. I also managed to drag myself up out of pretty crappy economic circumstances, using both my physical advantage, and my intellectual advantage. But again, not every one can.

I also acknowledge that some of what I have now was just good luck. I didnt do anything to deserve being taller and stronger than other women, nor smarter than some, I was lucky. Im also not unpleasant to look at, and I know that not being hideous has worked to my benefit. Everyone likes being around nice looking people more than those who are hideous. I didnt do anything to deserve that either. I happened to hear about a really good job overseas, and I took it. Not everyone had that opportunity.

For me, that strength of character you displayed is kind of like the physical and intellectual. Not everyone has the same amount. Its not fair to say, "If I can anyone can." That doesnt diminish your strength and courage, nor does it diminish the price you paid for your honesty. I just dont believe it is fair to say that because we could, everyone can. I just dont see that to be true. Children from the time they are little have differing amounts of "moxy" for lack of a better term. And different amounts of dependence.

I think it is better for all who CAN find it within themselves to be brave and do so, but I just cant judge those who really cant. I believe that there are those, who really cant.

For you, you went beyond brave. I just moved to Tennessee, and I am in the urban parts, and I cant even imagine the courage it must of taken in a small rural environment. I am amazed anyone comes out in Nashville. I grew up in Hawaii, and its a totally different ball game there. Its not that people dont get some crap, but far, far, far, less. And I never met a raging homophobe til I met people from the mainland. Its just not feared there to the same degree, even though not every welcomes it with open arms.



posted on Jul, 23 2010 @ 04:08 PM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 



Are you attracted to everyone of the opposite sex equally? Im not.

Of course not, however it should be completely expected that if your a female, there are going to be guys who may be attracted to you and of they ask you out or comment on your beauty, they shouldn't be put through the ringer and lose their career, freedom or life savings. How else are you supposed to find a mate unless every time you like a girl, you have a chance of ruining your life, simply for the mere act of talking to her or letting her know that you may be interested.


Homosexual advances from other animals is common in many species, and could be construed as "natural" too. Most dogs who dont like it seem to just shake off their "humper" and move on. Maybe straight men should do the same and stop making unwarranted complaints about the trauma they feel when they are propositioned or looked at like a "hot dog." Lol.


I wasn't trying to suggest that homosexual attraction wasn't any less natural. I was merely commenting on sexual harassment, which mostly happens with women against men.

As far as the "starring like a queer in a hotdog factory" comment, lol I was only referring to the look on their faces as they are starring you down. I know this from experience, as I have been in several beautiful parks that have been infested with gay men just trying to hump you leg. When I go to the park, I do so to be alone with nature, breathe in fresh air and clear my mind. I find this imposable to do with men who "nonchalantly" walk by every 2 minutes trying to give me non-verbal ques as to the reason why they keep walking by me with "that look" on their faces.

Now granted, it doesn't bother me so much and in fact, it doesn't even bother me if they want to high-tail (no pun intended) it into the bush for a quickie, however when you have 30 - 40 guys all having quickies in the bushes, what basically amounts to out in the open, I don't really think it's appropriate for a family park. I'm not against them doing it, rather I'm against the no warning that you get before you walk into such an atmosphere.

The same way that I have enough respect to not be having sexual encounters with women where families and children congregate, I would hope others would yield the same respect for others. Now, I can't even bring my children to the park before scouting it out to see if it's a meat market and we simply can't go to some of our favorite parks as they have been completely taken over.

My response to your sexual harassment post, had nothing to do with gay vs. straight, rather the comments had everything to do with most sexual harassment lawsuits and accusations are frivolous and go against human nature, not to mention that they are sexist. Men now have to walk on egg-shells when they are around women and we don't dare ever approach a woman if we are attracted to her as that can be a life changing event.. for the worse. Who would do such a horrible thing, hit on a member of the opposite sex? Just what could have been going through that sexual harasser's mind? /sarcasm.

--airspoon



posted on Jul, 23 2010 @ 04:47 PM
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The real question, what to get back to it?
Do people of any orientation have to be forced to be a party to behavior that can take place in private but is done in public as a kink where there is minimal desire on the part of the audience to be a party to it in any way?
Why do some that feel dissed at not being liked for their private kinks think its ok to fling their greasy richards at the general public whether they like it or not.
THe point is that govt taking sides in the public f^&king and s^king debate have a duty to prescribe the least offensive path not look at it as a free speech issue. It's just as illegal for breeders to get publicly blown in a park as it is for gays. Screw what you want, but keep it to yourself.
One doent get into trouble when they dont put themselves into a position to get mixed up in it.
Maybe the dead dude was just taking in a new city's sites and was unaware of it being a f^&k park, in that case those making it such that it needed to be busted by dumb flatfoots, take some responsibility in creating the situation, not just one person in the wrong here. Nothing wrong with a little al fresco fluffage but jeeze people be aware that there are others that can be significantly affected, and if you are not smart enough to take other peoples feelings into consideration, well, youre just a selfish little pig looking to f^&k with people you care nothing about.
And on a similar note I could tell you about being off the coast of the Ras mohammed off sharm el sheik with my then g/f on a rental hobiecat, thinking that nobody could see anything, until the hotels motor boat came to get us because unknown to us there was an egyptian army base on ras mohommed which I assume had made some complaints. So you see boys n gurls, one has to be really careful. And then just north of ensenada along the beach we were sure we were all alone and then over the dune comes the whole family on a fishing outing in spite of all the noise. SO best thing, keep it at home and be guilt free.



posted on Jul, 23 2010 @ 05:15 PM
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reply to post by airspoon
 


It's a shame that someone with children has to scope out a public park as if it's cable television. I myself have been made uncomfortable while walking the dogs and I know what's going down, pardon the pun. Though I understand Illusions point about the distribution of bravery, imagine the lack of fear necessary to cruise a public park for sex with strangers. I hold firm to my belief that "downlow" is more attributable to selfishness than fear.
Concerning sexual harassment at work, as a sort of "non-player" in that game, I've seen a few guys who needed those laws. On the other hand, I've seen a few more women weild those laws like a club.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 02:36 PM
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Couldn't it also be a case where the CEO didn't believe the off duty cop was really who he said he was? This could be why he allegedly resisted him and tried to dis arm him, especially being in a seedy location.

Either way, killing the unarmed guy sounds like the easy way out.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by airspoon
they shouldn't be put through the ringer and lose their career, freedom or life savings.


How many times have you, personally, been put through the ringer, lost your career, freedom, or life savings because you asked a woman out and showed interest?



Originally posted by airspoon
I wasn't trying to suggest that homosexual attraction wasn't any less natural. I was merely commenting on sexual harassment, which mostly happens with women against men.


Oh? Then perhaps you should direct your speech to Mordant whom I was commenting to in the first place. In this post, he is railing against "coughs, flushes, and tap" in public restrooms, and how violated it makes him feel. Perhaps rather than lecture me on the number of times women have ruined your life for innocently asking them out, you should lecture him on how he may be ruining their innocent lives, when all they are doing is respectfully signaling their interest.

post by mordant1
 



Originally posted by airspoon
As far as the "starring like a queer in a hotdog factory" comment, lol I was only referring to the look on their faces as they are starring you down. I know this from experience, as I have been in several beautiful parks that have been infested with gay men just trying to hump you leg.


News flash homes, an attractive female who walks past a bunch of nasty semi retarded rednecks leering like they want to hump her feels just as creeped out. The fact that the nasty rednecks have an outie and the female has an innie does not make the feeling of revulsion any less. If you are arguing that women should deal with it because it is natural, (and most of us do, btw) then men should too. You arent more delicate and vulnerable, suck it up.


Originally posted by airspoon
I'm not against them doing it, rather I'm against the no warning that you get before you walk into such an atmosphere.


Well perhaps men and women alike could petition the government for warning signs. "*WARNING* Horny humans you will find repulsive ahead," and perhaps they could just be placed in all public areas. Or, (and this might save tax dollars) perhaps we can just accept that when you are in public, you expose yourself to the possibility of unwanted attention. And, as long as that attention does not cross a certain threshold, there isnt anything to be done about it.


Originally posted by airspoon
My response to your sexual harassment post, had nothing to do with gay vs. straight, rather the comments had everything to do with most sexual harassment lawsuits and accusations are frivolous and go against human nature, not to mention that they are sexist.


Support your assertion that most are based on nothing.

I have had my butt grabbed 5 separate times in my life. Not once did I file a sexual harassment suit. Mostly, because I punched four of them, and donkey kicked the 5th. (I was on a ladder) I am big enough that that is an option for me. The kicking incident even happened at work, with witnesses, and the grabber was someone in a position of authority over me. I could have easily filed a charge. I didnt. I kicked him dead in the chest as hard as I could, (I was aiming for his head, with my steel toes) and knocked him down and knocked the wind out of him.

I am physically big enough to fight physically for myself. And I do. But most women dont really have that as an option, and in MY experience, most women put up with waaaaaaay more than they should have to before appealing to the law. Yes, some people (male and female, ironically) abuse those laws. But provide proof that MOST reports or claims are unfounded.



Originally posted by airspoon
Who would do such a horrible thing, hit on a member of the opposite sex? Just what could have been going through that sexual harasser's mind? /sarcasm.


Yeah whatever. Like I said, I have never filed a harassment charge. But 5 separate times in my life, some idiot has felt they had the right to grab a handful of my butt. Not to mention the untold numbers of just flat out nasty sexual comments from a guy or pack of guys, when I am just walking. (Either when they are standing in a herd somewhere on a city street, or driving by in a car) And dont blame my clothes either. I am always covered. I never wear heels and skirts, I am jeans and T shirt kinda girl, and I dont pack on the makeup either.

Dont tell me jack anything about how all these poor guys are just expressing their genuine interest and asking me for a date in the most respectful way.

You know you generally arent a complete idiot. But right now, you are just talking out of your butt. I dont hate all men for what a few idiots do, I get along with men great. But that doesnt mean some men arent just flat out nasty idiots. That wanker boss I kicked in the chest? He also loved to go to Thailand and screw 9-12 year olds and bring back naked pictures of them to show at work. Yeah. Nice guy. He finally DID get fired because while he never laid a hand on me again, he eventually did some stupid crap to a woman who happened to be married to a big wig in the company. And she DID turn him in.

So really, get off your soap box. Real genuine cases of sexual harassment do occur. And MOST women do not go through the process of turning the guy in. MOST of them handle it on their own, or even leave the job because they dont want to deal with the harassment AND people like you who often treat the female is if she is a pariah for defending herself using the law. Interestingly enough, I have never had anyone (male or female) suggest that the people I hit didnt deserve it completely. So I guess justice should only be available to those big enough to deal it out themselves, is that what you are saying?








posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 05:19 PM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


ASqqaueeze me?
I wasnt railing, simply making an observation that mst men if they think about it can relate to, the "Hiway rest stop cogh and flush code"
and my attempt is to point out how pathetic and dehumanizing cruizing for anon sex in tearooms is and how degraded and pathetic and selfish and unevolved one must be to do that instead of investing in an emotionally close mutual and productive adult relationship. Men, especially are mostly selfish pigs, in my opinion, if you must know, and american women rate a very very close second.
Me? I've never ruined any lives just cause someone was flirty, all flirtation is based on a desire for sex at some level, so get over it and take it as a compliment, on the other hand I was a victim of a gay mans fairly forceful advances as a young hitchiking adult, which was pretty wierd, though thankfully no cherries got bruised, and I lost no heteropoints.
I got one rule: only play with people that are into your game and keep those not definately into it, definately OUT of it. Do that and everyone gets along. THese are easy and apply to all in any occasion. THose that chose not to do so choose for purely selfish reasons, be they boobiegrabbers or butsniffers

[edit on 24-7-2010 by mordant1]



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 05:33 PM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 
Tip of the hat, madam. That post sounded as if it were written by any of the far-from-frail women in my own family, who , oddly enough, are descended from "rednecks". The coal field unionization type as opposed to the Urban dictionary definition, not that the two are , by any means, exclusive.



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by mordant1

Me? I've never ruined any lives just cause someone was flirty, all flirtation is based on a desire for sex at some level, so get over it and take it as a compliment, on the other hand I was a victim of a gay mans fairly forceful advances as a young hitchiking adult, which was pretty wierd, though thankfully no cherries got bruised, and I lost no heteropoints.


The again, you should have some empathy for those who are sexually harassed, and please, spare me the rant on how all women are ruining mens lives with divorce settlements and frivolous lawsuits.

I was able to fight on my own. Not all women, (or men, for that matter) have that as an option. I recognize this. Apparently despite your own feelings and experiences, you do not. That is why we have laws, to prevent those with more physical force from abusing those with less. We decided against "the law of the jungle" when we formed societies, and created rules, with consequences.


Originally posted by mordant1
I got one rule: only play with people that are into your game and keep those not definately into it, definately OUT of it.


That I dont disagree with. Although I take it further than "people who play your own game." No one has the right to try to force even someone of their own sexual orientation to tolerate sexual advances they find unwelcome. Its called basic respect for one another.

Airspoon can take his "its how its done" "thats how we reproduce" argument and stick it. It doesnt matter if it is homosexual on hetero, or hetero on hetero, or homosexual on homosexual. People have a right not to be harassed sexually. And only someone utterly unreasonable feels that harassment might mean "asking someone out," or "expressing respectful interest." REPEATEDLY doing those things are, but just once? No, virtually no one would agree asking just once was harassment.

If he feels that way, that he has the right to do whatever he wants to someone God or nature has made reproductively viable to him, that may be why he has such confusion over why some women might get offended by his innocent "shows of interest." If these are NOT his own personal experiences, then he is just talking smack.

If he isnt a witness to an event, he doesnt know how it went down, he only has the word of the people that were, and of COURSE the guilty party is going to claim innocence. The one persons word against the other aspect is why so many of these cases dont produce action, but that lack of action doesnt mean they are baseless, only that the nature of the crime makes them hard to prove in court many times. And what people say about their sexual behaviors to others, and what they actually DO when no one else is around, is very different sometimes. Just ask this guy.




posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 05:56 PM
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reply to post by Illusionsaregrander
 


Hey, I have all the empathy in the world, since most gals I know well were victims of rape or incest and I had to live with the results of somewhat broken or damaged lives . So what are you on about?
THe legal system is about raping those with money for profit, nothing more, be they mens or beyatches, I see it with women of means as well as the more commonly more affluent dudes. But men dont forget to take their pills and get knocked up on purpose, so while men are inconsiderate asses in many cases, it takes a woman to choose to hurt not only the man, but the resultant child that has no father to hopefully learn how to be a better man from. Marriage is a fraud and desperate fiction for most that I see, and those that dont HAVE to buy into it, are FAR better off untll they learn enough to become evolved enough to be a decent person, AT WHICH POINT THE PAPER MEANS NOTHING



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by 23refugee
 


True, and I was grabbing for some word I could say without violating the T&C to picture up the appropriate image. I have met plenty of people who could be called "rednecks" who are not nasty slobs.

And I will say I have met plenty of white collar jerks in my time too. I didnt mean to imply that all rednecks or all blue collar workers were jerks. Far from it. My father and grandfather were both blue collar. My earliest memory of quality time with my dad was him teaching me to fight and fish.

My grandfather always talked to me as if I were an intelligent human being, and never stressed my gender. He often spoke highly of the women who worked in the same factory he did.

Edit to add;

I am glad to hear the women in your family would do the same. I always feel bad for women raised in environments that "gimp" them, by telling them to "be nice, dont fight, always be a lady, you're too delicate," etc.

[edit on 24-7-2010 by Illusionsaregrander]



posted on Jul, 24 2010 @ 06:04 PM
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reply to post by mordant1
 


And how does pregnancy have anything to do with this?

One word for you or any man who is worried about women getting deliberately pregnant to trap you into financial support.

Condom.




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