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Almost got arrested, grrrr

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posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 08:31 AM
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reply to post by Ex_MislTech
 





They can hold anyone for no reason at all


They have to suspect you've done something wrong or are going to do something wrong to do this




posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 08:33 AM
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reply to post by JohnySeagull
 





TPTB will never get one over on you


It's not about that....it's about keeping my privacy...if they aren't looking for me...why do they need my name or to rummage through my pockets




I bet they loose sleep over that


No I wouldn't of thought so



posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 09:03 AM
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This is the type of situation that escalates into a "police state / police bullying / police brutality" story.

Since the OP has decided not to post or explain the rest of the story, we can only go on assumption. If you were a witness to a crime, I believe the police have a right to ask for your name, as it may come into play should a court case arise from said crime.

You obviously weren't pulled over, otherwise your license would have been given and he would have known your name, so we can put that idea to rest.

But here's the issue: Why? Why would you refuse to give your name or information? Were you trying to be that person who stands up to LEO's and be the tough guy, or were you perhaps generally concerned for your safety due to the nature of the crime you witnessed?

You clearly don't understand law and procedure, and that's absolutely fine. However, my advice is not to be a nuisance to the police when they aren't truly breaking your coconuts. It doesn't seem like you did anything wrong, and to be uncooperative could lead to an obstruction of justice, falsifying information or other charges which you do NOT want to deal with. I'd rather show respect and be cooperative even if it's not required, than spend a few hours or days in jail...be smart...



posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 09:54 AM
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reply to post by Rockstar02
 


You make a good point. Its called common sense. A lot of people seem to be lacking that in here. Most are under the impression that every single person is out to get them.

Boo!



posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by InvisibleObserver
What was the situation? Did you get pulled over? Were you walking down the side walk? Were you in a house or place of business? Why was the officer there and conducting an investigation? Were you suspected of something or a witness to something?

Need to fill in the story to fully understand what was going on.

In short if a police officer asked you to identify yourself and you refuse, then he/she will take you to the station to figure out who you are and why you refused to identify yourself.


My drunk roomate didn't pay for her cab, my mistake was being asked for money I didn't have at 2 am.... she had a voucher for a different cab company, so they guy called the cops, and they wondered why I couldn't pay for her...... well I don't have an ATM machine in my house, and it is TOTALLY HER responsibility, NOT mine.


I hate drunk people, what a pain in the @$$.

I am in canada.



posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 10:15 AM
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reply to post by JohnySeagull
 


I think when it comes to the government, it's best to assume they ARE out to get you.

If that means cooperating on a little point so you can avoid further contact, then that's what you should do.

Avoidance is KEY when it comes to the law. They can legally murder you if they agree to do so.



posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by mellisamouse
 


This is getting hilarious. People often wonder why they can never get a cop when they need one. This is a perfect example. They are out trying to resolve rows started by idiot drunks.

Then we have a thread about a druken incident on here. I suggest you get a new roomate.

This place is really going to the dogs.
(Can this not be moved to hoax. Seriously , a drunken row.)



posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 11:02 AM
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reply to post by JohnySeagull
 


Why hoax, it really happened. I was sober and the drunken cab ditcher was the one looking like the good guy/girl.


I made the second mistake of opening the door when they knocked, hoping it was my new boyfriend, lol...



posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 12:15 PM
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In Canada, the 3 situations where we can DEMAND your information is:

- if you are driving (it's a privilege not a right)
- if you are in a bar (no matter how old you look)
- if you have, are, or will be committing any illegal act/omission

The requirements are that we identify ourselves as police (uniform is ok) and state the reason for the DEMAND. Misleading information will lead to a charge of public mischief (commencing a false investigation) and obstruction. Refusal to identify yourself after a legal DEMAND will have you charged with obstruction. Refusal to ID yourself after a DEMAND will land you in jail until the officer has your information, if not your will be sent to explain to the judge who you are, and why you didn't ID yourself... Further refusal to the judge gets you a little "vacation" until you are properly identified...

As far as REQUESTING your information... We can REQUEST information from anyone, at any time for anything...

Just make sure you understand the difference between DEMAND and REQUEST...

Ask away if you need to know more... About Canadian law of course!

Magnum

[edit on 10/7/22 by Magnum007]



posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 12:30 PM
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reply to post by Magnum007
 


Thank you Magnum007.

A clear answer. Good to know in case it ever happened again.

I think I was just so angry and ashamed at my roommate dragging me into her stupid drunk girl problems.

Annoying as heck.

I just can't stand drunk people, including myself if I drink too much ever.

The problems caused.....



posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 12:53 PM
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reply to post by mellisamouse
 


Just remember that polite requests as to why or what is happening makes situations much more smooth...

Ex 1: Officer doesn't explain why they demand ID. Citizen flips and tells the officer that he has the right to know why and that they know lawyers and that this and that etc...

Officer gets suspicious and situation can go sour...

EX 2: Same situation, citizen politely asks what he is being stopped/questioned for. Officer explains the situation and all goes well...

Then there are the other situations where the officers are not exactly professional... I work with some. When dealing with those officers, just remain polite, DON'T LOSE YOUR COOL, YOU WILL LOSE THE FIGHT!!!! Record their name and report them to the Sgt/Cpl on another rotation...

If that doesn't work, you can call your local ethics/discipline government body (in Quebec it's the Commissaire a la déontologie du Québec)... I support people who are all for reporting bad officers.

We all just have to remember that sometimes, officers may seemingly act wrongfully, but the law and jurisprudence is on their side and citizens are not always informed of the procedures/regulations permitting the actions...

I encourage people to read about our work, not only from sources that denounce officers, learn about what we can do not only what we can't. Talk to the police, dont' be afraid of us! We have bad press, but we are not bad people.

If anyone needs more information or have questions about this u2u me!

Magnum



[edit on 10/7/22 by Magnum007]



posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 01:16 PM
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I actually am usually one of those cop lovers.

I think it was just the principle, that my roommate had me dragged into something so stupidly and irresponsibly.

I love my clean rep, and don't want it tarnished by another persons actions.

I think they got that as people by the time they left.

I just talk to them as fellow people.

I actually feel more violated by the roommate than anything now that I have digested all of this.



posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 02:18 PM
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Originally posted by mellisamouse
I almost got arrested for not wanting to give my name to the police.

Don't I have a right to remain silent?

Finally they said they would take me in for abstruction of justice

I feel completely violated.... I am furious.


The above i8s exactly what I went through as well. I was walking home, stopped to sit in the grass for a rest then they drove up.

They asked my name. I asked "What's yours? Am I doing something wrong?"
So they said "What is your name?"

Then I said I didn't feel it necessary unless I had done something wrong.

They then asked for my purse, which I told them I did not consent to a search. He said the obstruction of justice thing, then played tug of war with me for my purse. I gave up, not wanting to get arrested. But while the one cop took my purse, the other read me my Miranda Rights and cuffed and put me in the car.

Needless to say, they checked my record. Nothing. They searched my purse, nothing. They were very disappointed. They called my mother on my cell phone, to come and get me.

wtf. There is no curfew. I am an adult. I did nothing wrong.

I was not drunk.


Sorry to de-track your thread. But I have felt the need to get that rant out since it happened. I feel so violated. So humiliated. What is going on lately?



posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 02:22 PM
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reply to post by mellisamouse
 


Watch yourself friend...
You only have the right to remain silent if you have already been arrested!

Cops can do what ever the hell they want to do!
If they are having a bad day.. You will pay the price if you get in their way.

I yes, sir, no sir them.. Give them my name, I have done nothing wrong.

Now if you have a warrent out then I can see why you dont want to give your name.. lol

And yes, if they send you a letter to be a wittness for court you HAVE to go!
But they HAVE to serve you papers first!!



posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 03:47 PM
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Originally posted by LostNemesis

Originally posted by mellisamouse
I almost got arrested for not wanting to give my name to the police.

Don't I have a right to remain silent?

Finally they said they would take me in for abstruction of justice

I feel completely violated.... I am furious.


The above i8s exactly what I went through as well. I was walking home, stopped to sit in the grass for a rest then they drove up.

They asked my name. I asked "What's yours? Am I doing something wrong?"
So they said "What is your name?"

Then I said I didn't feel it necessary unless I had done something wrong.

They then asked for my purse, which I told them I did not consent to a search. He said the obstruction of justice thing, then played tug of war with me for my purse. I gave up, not wanting to get arrested. But while the one cop took my purse, the other read me my Miranda Rights and cuffed and put me in the car.

Needless to say, they checked my record. Nothing. They searched my purse, nothing. They were very disappointed. They called my mother on my cell phone, to come and get me.

wtf. There is no curfew. I am an adult. I did nothing wrong.

I was not drunk.


Sorry to de-track your thread. But I have felt the need to get that rant out since it happened. I feel so violated. So humiliated. What is going on lately?


if you were read your rights you were arrested and to the sound of it falsely. You could sue them and get some cash.

4th amendment to the united states consultation. “ the right of the people to be secure in their persons, house, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated and no warrants shall be issue, but upon probable cause”

For them to search you, you would need probable cause to a crime and at that point they would have to arrest you. Falsely being arrested is a crime and you could sue!!!



posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 03:50 PM
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Originally posted by Muckster


My advice IS to co-operate... You may not like it but it has (in my experience) always paid to remain polite, calm and co-operative when dealing with the police.



Therein lies the problem. It shouldn't be a hassle with the police to practice my constitutional rights. If I am not required to give my name, there shouldn't be any kind of a problem. The cop should simply move on with whatever business he or she might have with you because THEY SHOULD KNOW that you are not required to give them your name.

Yeah, it might be a whole lot easier to cooperate, but what kind of country would we be living in if everyone did everything the police ever told them to do just to avoid the trouble of asserting your rights?

If a cop stopped me for an unknown reason and asked my name, I would first ask what his or her business is with me. If they won't tell me, I don't have to tell them anything. If the cop wants to give me trouble about it, then I simply educated them about not only my rights, but the cops rights and any one else's rights they might try to trample on. If I still get hassled then it is definitely worth the trouble to assert my rights.



posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by camaro68ss
 


I don't know about in the US but in Canada we read rights even if there is no arrest; it's called temporary detention...

Ex: Robbery happens down the street and we have partial description and witnesses wh can ID the suspect... Find some person with similar description, but have nothing else. They are not arrested, but temporarily detained. Because the person is not free to leave, we need to make sure that the person understands their right to remain silent (even if they've been told 4 times in the same week) in this case because what they say will definitely be used against them later in court.

I'm sure that there are the same provisions in the US. Being told your rights do not automatically mean arrest...

Magnum



posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 06:43 PM
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None of these laws count anymore though technically.

The government broke the Social Contract with the people.

Therefore all laws are null and void.

I don't know why they want a world of lawlessness, but thats what they are creating for us!!!



posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 10:36 PM
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Okay next time if you are in a common law country.

'Officer, just before you question me I wish to ascertain a few things first, have you witnessed me causing harm, loss, injury, breach of the peace or defraudment in contract?'
(most likely no unless you're a silly billy and in which case you're screwed, tbh usually rightly so)

'Are you here on your oath today?'
(Yes - if not they are commiting fraud, impersonating peace officer etc)
Your oath is to uphold the common law without ill will frivolity or vexation, everyone is equal under the law. You have sworn to uphold the queens peace. You have sworn an oath to the office of constabulary, which is a common law jurisdiction. As you have not witnessed me commiting a common law offense I am a free man on the land with all inaelienable rights intact. I claim common law jurisdiction, I do not consent to contract and the benefit is waived (this means any trustee/beneficiary relationship is not applicable e.g. living in the country assumes you to be a citizen..). I do not consent to contract with any statutory law as all require consent by law. I have no rights unless I claim them as I have just done. You have no lawful authority over me and you are now hindering my right to freedom of movement, do you understand?


If they don't understand or 'stand under' that statement it's time to call in the higher ranked officers as they have knowingly commited fraud under common law if they proceed against you. Call 111/911 whatever on the police if you need to.
You can also ask them (IIRC) for up three pieces of identification as it is your lawful right to ascertain they are peace officers. They will have a warrant card, badge and likely a business card or other ID (officer number is not really an ID as it can be faked however....).

So if they have not witnessed you causing a common law offense they cannot take your details. If they insist you look like someone who has and use that trick, then provide them a first name and state that you do so under protest and duress and without contract for fear of physical violence. You have provided a name... and it cannot be used in contract as it is under protest and duress. EVERYTHING you do from that point onwards is under protest and duress.

If they ask you for a date of birth - it's hearsay - do you remember being born? And the time? Only a doctor has written it down however what proof of claim do they have? You must state that the law deals with facts, not hearsay and therefore you are unable to supply a date of birth as it is hearsay.

The trick is to not challenge their jurisdiction, merely pull it out from underneath them by holding them to their oaths and to not break common law yourself... same goes for courts. However don't use the magic words unless you comprehend what they mean, the implications behind it and how it all works! Hope this helps though
Try and make them laugh don't be too stuck up about it too
have spoken to two peace officers recently and confirmed this with them independently, one guy had a good laugh about it too!!! Other guy was cool with it and really nice natured. I think they are suprised when another non peace officer has such an understanding of law it must be refreshing for them.



posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 11:24 PM
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Originally posted by muzzleflash
None of these laws count anymore though technically.

The government broke the Social Contract with the people.

Therefore all laws are null and void.

I don't know why they want a world of lawlessness, but thats what they are creating for us!!!


The Police are on Steroids.




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