Almost got arrested, grrrr, page 1

posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 04:54 AM

link

I almost got arrested for not wanting to give my name to the police.

Don't I have a right to remain silent?

Finally they said they would take me in for abstruction of justice if I wouldn't give them my name to be a witness.

Can they do that?

I feel completely violated.... I am furious.

Reign02

posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 05:00 AM

link

You have the right to remain silent when you are being arrested. And a if a cop wants to he can take you to jail for just about anything. When a cop asks you your name you are required to identify yourself. whether it be by ID or verbally. And yes they can take u in for abstruction of justice. IF you called the cops or told them you witnessed an event you are out of luck.

JohnySeagull

posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 05:21 AM

link

reply to post by mellisamouse

what age are you and where have you been living?

You made this a thread? Huh

catwhoknows

posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 05:25 AM

link

reply to post by mellisamouse

Sorry to say, cops have the right to ask for and get your name.

Be nice to the cops and they will be nice to you (maybe).

Pockets

posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 05:26 AM

link

Don't tell the fuzz anything...if they ask your name or for you to empty your pockets...refuse...and ask what offence they are reporting you for

[edit on 22-7-2010 by Pockets]

ATLien

posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 05:28 AM

link

Idk, I was charged with False Identification to Law Enforcement, spent a month in jail for it, but as far as name refusal I really don't think so..Matter of fact from now on I'm not even lying about my name I'm just not telling them. Then again they could charge you with conspiracy or mischief.

defcon5

posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 05:30 AM

link

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

reply to post by mellisamouse

You do not have the right to withhold your name from the police:

WASHINGTON
US citizens do not enjoy a constitutional right to refuse to reveal their identity when requested by police.
In what may become a major boost to US law enforcement and antiterrorism efforts, the US Supreme Court Monday upheld a Nevada law that makes it a criminal offense for anyone suspected of wrongdoing to refuse to identify himself to police.

And its Obstruction of Justice:

The crime of obstruction of justice includes crimes committed by judges, prosecutors, attorneys general, and elected officials in general. It is misfeasance, malfeasance or nonfeasance in the conduct of the office. Most commonly it is prosecuted as a crime for perjury by a non governmental official primarily because of prosecutorial discretion. Modern obstruction of justice, in United States jurisdictions, refers to the crime of offering interference of any sort to the work of police, investigators, regulatory agencies, prosecutors, or other (usually government) officials. Often, no actual investigation or substantiated suspicion of a specific incident need exist to support a charge of obstruction of justice. Common law jurisdictions other than the United States tend to use the wider offense of Perverting the course of justice.

Generally, obstruction charges are laid when it is discovered that a person questioned in an investigation, who is not a suspect, has lied to the investigating officers. However, in most common law jurisdictions, the right to remain silent allows any person questioned by police merely to refuse to answer questions posed by an investigator without giving any reason for doing so. (In such a case, the investigators may subpoena the witness to give testimony under oath in court) It is not relevant if the person lied to protect a suspect (such as setting up a false alibi, even if the suspect is in fact innocent) or to hide from an investigation of their own activities (such as to hide his involvement in another crime). Obstruction charges can also be laid if a person alters or destroys physical evidence, even if he was under no compulsion at any time to produce such evidence.

The court can subpoena you to be a witness, the same way they can subpoena any other type of evidence. You however did not have to answer any other questions beyond basic information to the police without an attorney present, unless you were under arrest and had your Miranda rights read to you.

A subpoena is a writ issued by a government agency, most often a court, that has authority to compel testimony by a witness or production of evidence under a penalty for failure.

The punishment for refusal to a subpoena is normally going to be a bench warrant for your arrest for being in contempt of court:

What are possible consequences if I refuse to respond to a witness subpoena
It depends on the jurisdiction, but generally, if you are a fact witness, you can be compelled to testify.

WHAT SHOULD I EXPECT IF I'M A WITNESS IN A CASE?

As a witness, whether plaintif, defendent or bystander, you can expect to be "deposed" and later to appear on the witness stand. Deposition happens before a trial and is oral testimony, administered under oath, presented by a witness.

You may have some knowledge, a great deal of knowledge, or no knowledge at all about the subject matter you are being asked about. There are no "right" answers, or "wrong" answers, just truthful ones. But as any lawyer who has ever litigated a case will tell you, sometimes an answer can be given in a way that is more helpful than it is hurtful. Questions will be asked of you by the other side's lawyer and you are required to respond.

A stenographic reporter is usually present to take down the testimony and transcribe it into booklet form for you to review, and then for both sides to utilize.

WHAT TO DO PRIOR TO DEPOSITION

Here's a handy checklist of some obvious things you might want to do prior to a deposition, followed by some helpful pointers as to what you ought to think about doing during the course of the deposition.

1)Be on time

2)Make sure that you have met with the lawyer representing you or your interests before attending the deposition.

3)Meet the lawyer representing you at the deposition site prior to it taking place so that you can receive last minute instructions.

The deposition will eventually be used at a trial, if the case doesn't settle before then, as many do.

At trial, the written version of what you said may be used to impeach your testimony and cast doubt on your credibility.

This is particularly true if you answer a question differently at the trial than you did at the deposition.

At the time of the trial, you may be called again to the witness stand.

Because that is so similar to the deposition itself, these recommendations also apply to those testifying at trial.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

catwhoknows

posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 05:32 AM

link

Here is a bit of common sense.

If a cop stops you and asks your name and you refuse, you are just getting yourself into trouble. They are not going to let you go on your way.

Pockets

posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 05:36 AM

link

reply to post by catwhoknows

They are not going to let you go on your way.

Why not....If you haven't done anything...what are they going to do?

[edit on 22-7-2010 by Pockets]

CREAM

posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 05:39 AM

link

According to the information defcon5 posted, OP is correct unless the cop had a reason to suspect him of "wrongdoing". Cops cant(well obviously they do whatever they want regardless of the law) just ask for ID for no reason. Edit - sure they can make up a reason, but that is messed up, I think OP has the right to be angry.

[edit on 22-7-2010 by CREAM]

[edit on 22-7-2010 by CREAM]

CosmicEgg

posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 05:40 AM

link

That doesn't look correct to me, so I wiki'd it.

"“Stop and identify” statutes are laws in the United States that allow police to detain persons reasonably suspected of involvement in a crime and require persons so detained to identify themselves to the police." full link

You now live in a police state. Martial law is next. Be warned.

Pockets

posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 05:41 AM

link

Click here for more information.

catwhoknows

posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 05:43 AM

link

reply to post by Pockets

If you refuse to give your name, they take you to the station and you spend a few uncomfortable hours.

CosmicEgg

posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 05:44 AM

link

reply to post by Pockets

Hahaha...at 2pm? I need a nap, do I? Some police state. And I don't even live there!

Pockets

posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 05:46 AM

link

reply to post by catwhoknows

Nah I don't agree with that....If they did do that you could get them done for false imprisonment

catwhoknows

posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 05:48 AM

link

reply to post by Pockets

OK, let me know how you get on with that after you have been in prison for a few months.

Pockets

posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 05:52 AM

link

reply to post by catwhoknows

I've used my own advice lots of times...and never been arrested...the only time I did get arrested I did what they told me without knowing there rules

[edit on 22-7-2010 by Pockets]

Muckster

posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 05:53 AM

link

reply to post by mellisamouse

This only applies to Britain (not sure if you live in Britain)....

You do not have to give you name but they can arrest you for not giving your name if they suspect you of a crime...

www.suffolk.police.uk...

If you are stopped the officers will ask you some simple questions such as your name, where you live and where you are going.

Unless they are reporting you for a suspected crime, you don’t have to give them these details, but it makes sense to co-operate. If you are innocent you have nothing to fear.

If you are being reported for an offence, you do have to provide these details and may be arrested if you refuse to give your details.

My advice IS to co-operate... You may not like it but it has (in my experience) always paid to remain polite, calm and co-operative when dealing with the police.

I know there are horror stories regarding the police (i have some myself) but to not co-operate often just makes thing more difficult for you...

and let’s not forget... they have a difficult job to do...

After all, who you gonna call when you hear someone creeping around in your house at 3am?

Peace

Jean Paul Zodeaux

posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 05:56 AM

link

Obstruction of justice works both ways. It all depends upon the circumstances. If the police officers were operating in jurisdictional bounds then they either suspected you were committing a crime, had committed a crime, or fit the description of someone who had recently committed a crime. Under these circumstances they have jurisdiction, and every right to ask you your name. You have not shared much information about why the police have asked for your name.

If you were walking along, or even driving along minding your own business, and were pulled over by the police, the first thing you want to do is politely ask the police if you are being detained. If the answer is yes, then politely ask if they suspect you of committing a crime, or if you fit the description of someone who has recently committed a crime. If the answer is yes, now you know why you are being detained, and co-operating in the most cautious way possible is prudent. Giving them your name is probably a good idea, if they ask for it at that point, and then remaining silent is best. Except it is not a bad idea to inform them that you want to co-operate with them as best you can because you are in fear for your life, since they are armed.

If, on the other hand, when you ask the police if you are being detained, and they answer that they just want to ask you a few questions, which is probably how they will answer, indirectly to your direct question, ask the question again. "Am I being detained". If the police answer that question directly with a no, then clarify if you are free to go. If they answer yes, then leave. If they answer no, then clarify again if you are being detained. If they get defensive, and begin using your valid questions as an excuse to intimidate you, respectfully inform them that you wish to fully co-operate to the best of your ability because you are in fear for your life, since they are armed.

If they continue to intimidate you, ask respectfully that they call the duly elected Sheriff to the scene. If they ask why, inform them that you are skeptical of the jurisdiction in the matter, and would like a duly elected Sheriff or Deputy Sheriff present so that due process of law may be afforded you. If they begin threatening you with obstruction of justice charges at this point, respectfully inform them that you believe that there is an obstruction of justice taking place, but that it is not you obstructing justice, and very well could be them, and if that is the case, then those police officers might be guilty of acting under color of law, impersonating a police officer, malicious prosecution, illegal detainment, and simulation of legal process, to name just a few other crimes.

If, after informing them of this, they ask you if you are threatening them, make clear that as a law abiding citizen you are doing your due diligence in informing citizens of the law. If they persist in your detainment at this point, politely make clear that you are challenging the jurisdiction and that they have a sworn duty to prove on record jurisdiction in order to move forward with whatever actions they intend to take against you. Also, keep requesting that a duly elected law enforcement officer, such as the Sheriff, or Deputy Sheriff be present.

These are not magic words that will magically prevent rogue police officers from abusing their authority, but many times police officers know the law well enough to know that if they have no jurisdiction that now is the time to respectfully let you go on your way. Either way, always be respectful. If they do arrest you for obstruction of justice, continue making it clear, each step of the way, that you are challenging jurisdiction. If you wind up getting booked, and then go before a judge, do not plead to any charges, and continue to challenge the jurisdiction. Make clear that jurisdiction must be shown. A judge is far more likely to understand what it is you are saying, and at this point will most likely begin questioning the police officers. If the judge determines that you are right, he will most certainly dismiss the case for want of subject matter jurisdiction.

If this happens, you now have evidence of a crime being committed, and that crime, or crimes, was the illegal detainment by those police officers, simulation of legal process, impersonating a police officer, (without proper jurisdiction police are not acting in an official manner and instead acting as private citizens without immunity of their profession), and of course, obstruction of justice. You can, if you chose, swear a verified oath to a Sheriff that these crimes have been committed and have those police officers arrested, or you can begin the process of filing a Title 42 law suit.

Because this is true, and if you are being illegally detained, police officers generally will not arrest you, and take you to jail, as they are usually aware of the damage this can cause them. It is important to make clear, as politely as possible, and as soon as possible, that jurisdiction is being challenged, so there is no confusion, and they can not legally construe any co-operation on your part as a waiver of your right to due process of law.

catwhoknows

posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 05:56 AM

link

reply to post by Pockets

Well, I think life is tough enough without inviting attention from the police.