Be skeptical of debunkers, Debunk Skeptics & Believe in someone.

reply to post by Esoteric Teacher


Good topic. Skeptics and I don't say debunkers because a believer or a UFO researcher
or any person with initiative may debunk a case, story, photo, video anytime by getting
information to expose a hoax or to clarify a confusion, anyway Skeptics live in denial
all the time and this is a proven fact, but even that let's say they have their right to
deny the existence of UFOs. However Skeptics also like Ratings and if those ratings are
good they enjoy their minutes of fame like everybody in this forum, not a surprise.

There are professional Skeptics that make their living talking, discussing, debunking
UFOs some of these Skeptics are famous and they earn very good $$ in their work.
Of course they claim ufologists are bad persons because they earn money but this
just prove there is a clear hypocrisy, not a surprise. It seems to make a living of the
UFOs is not a sin for Skeptics but it 's a sin for ufologists, a clear contradiction. Here
in this forum some well known skeptics cry $$ all the time when they criticize ufologists
but they conveniently ignore the fact that many professional Skeptics also make their
living and earn good money with the UFO Phenomena, hypocrisy and contradiction.

And there are also the well known ATS Clowns who like to get their minutes of fame by
making silly jokes off topic destroying the seriousness of a thread, The ATS clowns that
like to sabotage threads all the time taking advantage of the moderator's absence,
these parasites are the scumb here in this ATS Forum, these ATS clowns that wonder
from thread to thread, taking control over all of the colaborating members , these
ATS clowns that steal the thread for their own benefits that is to ridiculize the poor
member that posted this or that topic and then sabotage the whole thread by making
silly dumb jokes, posting a lot of dumb messages to monopolize the whole thread in
order to promote himself or themselves like spamming the thread, this or these ATS
clowns are the worst scum in this forum and I think we all know who they are.

There was a time when this forum provided good informations about UFO cases and I
think that age made this forum famous. Those days are over if you review the actual
condition of this forum that looks more like an asylum where sterile discussions are
the menu of the day, ratings are the main objective. For a single good thread of a
legitimate discussion treated with seriousness there are a bunch of lunatic discussions
among who is the best, who is the smarter, who is the immaculate, who has the
authority to rule the cult. And the other ones that took control of this forum to make
their days as clowns by converting this forum in a circus where they can tell their
stupid jokes, make their idiot drawings and to amuse themselves by making fun of
UFOs and ATS members, unfortunately this is the actual condition of this forum and I
have seen the regrettable changes taking place in a short period of time degradating
the seriousness of the forum by the arrival of those parasites and eccentric clowns.

But despite the contamination UFOs continue to be Real, the UFO Phenomena is now
stronger than ever with more and more believers, witnesses, evidences AND as long
as the UFO Phenomena is alive both Skeptics and Ufologists will continue making their
living and this is a definitive and undeniable fact, like it or not.

Originally posted by CASH69
reply to post by Phage

 

I won't deny for one second that optical allusions don't take place with the human eye. But when you have a whole group of people seeing the same thing at the same time,you can't always chalk it up to mass hallucinations,it just doesn't happen. Phage,i hope that you do experience something that will wake you up. I was once the same way,but something went out of its way to show me the truth. I questioned it over and over again,but when i ask for the truth,it just happens again. Whatever it is or they are,they or it is not from here. I feel very lucky somehow that these beings would think enough of me to show themselves to me,even if it is just orange and white orbs flying over the top of my house.

It's not mass hallucinations I'm talking about, but rather mass mis-identifications.

reply to post by Esoteric Teacher

(it's about Esoteric Teacher's star collection) esoteric teacher thanks you 4 your participation. star for you! & star for et? -et

Well all I can say is at least you are very up-front and open that you only did this to collect stars.
What the point of having stars is kind of escapes me, but to each his own.

[edit on 21/7/2010 by Chamberf=6]

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


Of course there is miss identification. But of all the sightings that are out there,can you actually tell me not one of them is real? I think not. Look at all the other mysteries out there,strange structures like Pumapuncu,and the list goes on and on. We don't even have cranes today that can lift those stones,and primitive man made these structures? It looks like people just don't want to believe there is something out there greater than themselves. Its called denial.

reply to post by free_spirit


I agree and disagree with you. Nice post though,but hopefully you don't consider me some kind of clown,lol. I believe forums are just that,forums. They are for discussion for anyone,and i don't understand why a forum has to live up to a particular persons standards,unless it is being vulgar or extremely rude. I have experienced plenty rude here,but i just shrug it off. I'm afraid ATS forums have more news article standards rather them just being forums. Attention to detail is a plus,but not always necessary.

Mediocre minds have driven the thinking man crazy since time immemorial! PS im on a warning because of Mediocre minds, come on own up you know who you are!

Originally posted by DCDAVECLARKE
Mediocre minds have driven the thinking man crazy since time immemorial! PS im on a warning because of Mediocre minds, come on own up you know who you are!

Errmmmm, so people who may question what you believe are in some way mediocre, but for some reason you have risen above that and any claims (didn't someone not far away recently post one about Eric Clapton and Layla?) should be taken verbatim and no critical thought applied?

Hmmm, this thread, like so many others seems to be more about 'don't stop me believing even though I have no proof in my belief'. I have no issue with that in one sense as long as people do not get hostile when that is challenged.

What does make me laugh is how many people criticise religions which at their basic foundation hold that faith rather than proof defines their choice when they themselves have an unshakeable belief in something that they cannot prove (notice the word prove, not random out of context quotes, or 30 second youtube clips).

Better stop there, irony police will chase me down.

Originally posted by Come Clean
Some debunker's on here debunk just for the sake of debunking. They are never skeptical first. They debunk first. Not all, but a few notables on here debunk even in their sleep.

So what? Even if someone debunks for the sake of debunking, that does not automatically make them wrong. Instead of considering an argument based on it's merits, you want to dismiss people with no thought.

Originally posted by Come Clean
Debunker's claim to know everything in the universe but can't cure cancer right here on Earth. I am very skeptical of debunker's.

Not a single "debunker" or "skeptic" will ever claim to know everything in the universe. Far from it; you are rehearsing prejudices.

Look at it this way

In the dark ages, religion guided people, specially sceptics.
But not all questions could be answered. Those fringe lunatics (scientists) were burnt on the stake. Lightning strikes were the might of God.

Then science came with its answers and became the 'truth', then again we see today that not everything can be answered. Now the fanatic religious is burnt on the stake too (metaphorically speaking)

So what is the next logical step in knowledge? Certainly everything metaphysics and alien intelligence.

There is only so much mankind can learn. An logical mind has to accept the possibility of illogicality. There is no such thing as a closed logical mind.
And all those fanatics (religious and scientific) and the closed minded folks will both take their place 'at the stake'.

And of course we will always come back to Religion and Science, we need every data possible to see the truth for what it really is.

Interesting thread.

Is a television a magic picture box, or is there science behind how it works?

If you simply don't care about the science, or are ignorant of it, then its a magic picture box.

If you are interested in the science, then you understand how it works, and its not magic picture box anymore.

Calling a television a magic picture box is ignorance.

Skepticism isn't something that is wrong.

Denying ignorance by explaining the science behind a subject isn't debunking - Its education.

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


The guilty dog always barks first.

Originally posted by Dean Goldberry
The terminology of this thread title is all wrong. What is a "debunker" supposed to be actually debunking when he or she is sufficiently full of bunk to begin with? Or at best, the "debunker" offers only a theory or opinion, far from proven fact. Where's the debunking? To quote the famous Wendy's commercial in the '80s, "Where's the beef?" No debunking applies.

Is your name Webster? Because I'd rather take Websters definition of debunk over Dean Goldberry's definition of debunk.

DEBUNK: to expose the sham or falseness of

— de·bunk·er noun

Originally posted by something wicked

Originally posted by DCDAVECLARKE
Mediocre minds have driven the thinking man crazy since time immemorial! PS im on a warning because of Mediocre minds, come on own up you know who you are!

Errmmmm, so people who may question what you believe are in some way mediocre, but for some reason you have risen above that and any claims (didn't someone not far away recently post one about Eric Clapton and Layla?) should be taken verbatim and no critical thought applied?

Hmmm, this thread, like so many others seems to be more about 'don't stop me believing even though I have no proof in my belief'. I have no issue with that in one sense as long as people do not get hostile when that is challenged.

What does make me laugh is how many people criticize religions which at their basic foundation hold that faith rather than proof defines their choice when they themselves have an unshakeable belief in something that they cannot prove (notice the word prove, not random out of context quotes, or 30 second youtube clips).

Better stop there, irony police will chase me down.

You make a pretty good point but here in lies the problem.

What makes my belief in God, aliens or whatever less credible than someone's belief in the Big Bang? Can they prove the big bang even happened? Oh wait, they can re-create it right? Well people have claimed to see God. They recreated him in their mind. And there is no way they will ever be able to re-create the big bang in that collider. What they are doing is making a copy of the real thing. How much does a copy of the Mona Lisa sale for these days?

The Big Bang is just another theory in many theories. Just like God is and just like Aliens are. But the debunker's just claim they don't exist and never did because that's what NASA and Einstein said.

Point is this. No one is going to admit they debunk just to debunk. Which is different than argue just to argue. But the OP is frustrated with certain elements of this site that debunk just to debunk. Those people should be called out to the carpet.

Originally posted by Come Clean
The guilty dog always barks first.

Cliches do not make for cogent arguments. We can see you rehearsing your prejudices in your signature.

reply to post by Esoteric Teacher


The believer in me says: Well, I guess they believe they have something to say which is worth sharing, even it I find it irritating that they intentionally make it obscure. Well, perhaps they enjoy playing games.


The skeptic in me asks:
What is the reason behind the intentionally obscure language?
Is it the only way they can communicate what they are trying to say?
Might they be trying to prove that they have superior linguistic skills?
Is this just an ego trip?
Looking at the name they have chosen, does this person perhaps really see themselves as some kind of teacher with a special message, which they are sharing with the 'plebs'?


The debunker in me concludes:

If you want me to take the trouble to try to understand you, say what you have to say in a language which is accessible to everyone.

The real skill in communication is finding the way to communicate even the most complex of concepts in the simplest of language. That is art. That is beauty. That is harmony.

Using language to make the most simple complex and obscure is pretentious, egotistical, ugly and disharmonious.

Quit trying to use 'obscurantism' as a means of promoting 'elitism' and 'self grandeur'

Not going to waste my time. My time is too precious to waste on the game which I suspect you are playing. FAIL.

reply to post by something wicked

Were did i say i believed anything on the story about Clapton?

Some people require very little evidence to believe in certain ideas...which is fine.

However,

When they try to convince others, they need to realize the burden of proof increases exponentially.

reply to post by Esoteric Teacher


You have to factor in those with multiple personalities, fence sitters and those who keep changing their mind.

Originally posted by DoomsdayRex

Originally posted by Esoteric Teacher
this is less a "us verses them" thread & more a "who are us and what do them know" sorta thread, i think.

That is an interesting spin, though not one in keeping with reality. Instead of attempting to prove your beliefs through evidence or cogent, logical argument, you seem to want to bash skeptics for being skeptical, attempting to validate your beliefs by proxy.

i think when i was authoring this thread i was trying to share with fellow ATSers that there are more than just the following catagories:

believers. skeptics. debunkers.

sometimes some ATSers are not permitted to "believe" as belief is somewhat a faith based. lacking evidence and proof, yet "believing".

if someone's senses have proven to them beyond doubt then that specific someone is not a "believer".

so when ATSers view a thread as "us verses them" then they are not taking into account all sides of the debate, but rather focussing on black and white, while ignoring the greys.

some ATSers are not believers.
some ATSers are not skeptics.
some ATSers are not debunkers.

some ATSers cannot be believers.
some ATSers cannot be skeptics.
some ATSers cannot be debunkers.

some ATSers fall into a catagory other than the options listed above.
(aka someone)

this thread is about depolarization of a non-linear multi-dimensional massive puzzle. if i had all the answers i would give them to you. if you had all the answers would you give them to me?

i'm not sure someone's senses even knows all the correct questions. Maybe it is for skeptics and debunkers to decide? i may or may not have the senses for it.

is success measured on how ignorant others are in comparison to someone? not according to E.T.

thanks for playing,
E.T.

reply to post by Esoteric Teacher


At any given moment, on any given day, I can be:

A believer

or

A skeptic

or

A "debunker"

or

A Idontgknowstic

we are one. eggs and baccy.