Is your name and message on the Wall?

Did you know...that the exhaust coming out of most new hydrocarbon cars is cleaner than the outside air taken in? They are much 'greener' than hybrids.

Hybrids carry toxic batteries and the production of the batteries cause environmental damage. The nickel mined for hybrid batteries are from a Nickel mine in Sudsbury, Ontario famous for the environmental damage and amount of fossil fuel needed to mine and process the Nickel. www.sirbikesalot.com...

The overall lifetime energy cost of a hybrid like a Prius exceeds that of a Crown Victoria. The energy cost per mile for a Prius is $2.91, for the Crown Vic it's $1.13. Ref: cnwmr.com...

If you want something to champion, why not for super low emissions vehicles that are cleaner than hybrids, but can't be sold outside of certain states due to political reasons?

editorial.autos.msn.com...

...
Not only can't you buy one, but the government says it's currently illegal for automakers to sell these green cars outside of the special states. Under terms of the Clean Air Act—in the kind of delicious irony only our government can pull off—anyone (dealer, consumer, automaker) involved in an out-of-bounds PZEV sale could be subject to civil fines of up to $27,500. Volvo sent its dealers a memo alerting them to this fact, noting that its greenest S40 and V50 models were only for the special states.

So, just how green is a PZEV machine? Well, if you just cut your lawn with a gas mower, congratulations, you just put out more pollution in one hour than these cars do in 2,000 miles of driving. Grill a single juicy burger, and you've cooked up the same hydrocarbon emissions as a three-hour drive in a Ford Focus PZEV. As the California Air Resources Board has noted, the tailpipe emissions of these cars can be cleaner than the outside air in smoggy cities.
...

If you want something to champion, why not for super low emissions vehicles that are cleaner than hybrids, but can't be sold outside of certain states due to political reasons?

We can add that to the list as well. Now if you look at what I'm trying to do here maybe you'll understand. I don't give a damn about COST. If it cost more I don't care money is garbage as far as I am concerned. It isn't worth the paper it's printed on anymore. No longer backed by gold, so guess what you work for paper anyhow.
Anyhow, my cause is making steps toward fixing problems. A problem with RESPECT, for the Earth, for each other, and toward other species. Green power is a step toward that. So sign the Wall or don't, it is YOUR Legacy or rather no legacy that you will leave for your children. If you poison it now, there is no future for life as we know it.
I still wish to thank everyone for the input even though 95% has been negative...At least I have gotten feedback...SO thank you all.^_^

Here's some more number crunching about hybrids(Not that it has anything to do with this discussion).

Hybrids: Cheaper to own in the long run

Prius

A little more

[edit on 21/7/10 by Shadowed]

[edit on 21/7/10 by Shadowed]

reply to post by Shadowed


Ah the logic of tree hugging hippies!

1. I've seen zero evidence that certain natural resources are in fact derived from "fossiles" ie, animals and plants.

2. Mining and drilling is generally very clean, aside from accidents like BP, but even still eventually the planet cleans its self.

3. Id love to camp in the woods around a campfire singing songs while the deer, the bunnies and the birdies frollick through the site .. but it can't and simply won't happen.

People like you offer absolutely NO alternative.. except crazy halfass schemes that cost time, money and lost jobs.. and in the end 99.9% of these plans fail. And to scare people into accepting these insane ideas, you scare them with half baked truths, outragious lies, psuedo science and big names.

I have absolutely no respect for people like you.. your belief has been proven false, global warming is false, going to green energy is not viable and its based on lies.

Edit: of course you don't care about cost.. why would an ignorant eco nazi care about money when they aren't paying for it?

Cost of owning a prius would take over 10 years to off set the obscene cost to how much you save in gas money. Let me spend $30k dollars on a car so I can save $500 a year.... ok, that makes perfect sense. Quality and performance wise, its a $12k car, inline with a Yaris.

Also more pollution and cost is generated from the creation of the battery than the manufacturing of any other automobile part.

Just more Green Logic. What cracks me up, is if you put "hybrid" or "organic" on something, the eco fools will pay a premium for it, even if its hardly beneficial.. talk about tools..

[edit on 7/22/2010 by Rockpuck]

reply to post by Rockpuck


You are truly correct, the earth will CLEAN itself. Just like a dog with fleas scratches and then no more humans. I'm trying to avoid that. We don't have to be parasites.
You see again you are talking of money. Money doesn't exist. Of course those with their eyes closed can't see that. They want their easy happy go buy something lives. Rather than hey let me grow some of my food. Let me put solar panels on the roof to save myself some money. Let me recycle to keep plastics out of the ocean since there are 30-300 million tons of it in the ocean alone(Plastic DOES NOT BREAK DOWN). Scientist have found it in jelly fish and many other sea going animals. Soon that means on the beach it will be ground down enough for plankton to think it's food. Just so it is known that is the bottom of the food chain and in the food chain problems move up. Soon we will be eating the stuff, sounds like a lovely time to me. Oh and in the ocean DDT loves to wrap itself around bits of plastic Yum!!!! There are still countries that use it, did you know that? Did you know that it doesn't easily break down in the environment?
The balance is most important, let us preserve it. You are right I don't necessarily know the answers. I know that I recycle, I know that I use stainless steel bottles where I can. I know that I turn lights off and use CFLs where I can. I intend to put solar panels on my roof as soon as I save enough money up. "I'm poor too." I don't know the answers but I do know that I can help make a difference, and I do.
I work with solar panels to try and transfer the energy to other things(not successful yet) I work with generators trying to figure out how I can make energy for my house(Not Successful). At least I'm trying so crucify my all you want guys. I will keep trying, because like Mother Earth, I keep coming!!!
Thank you for your input.^_^

Good for you shadow. Recycling, using less energy, personal solar arrays: all very good stuff. I think you got the reaction you did to this thread because you linked up to a "green movement" propaganda website and most people at ATS have looked into the green movement and don't like what they see.

I don't think you are going to find many people that want to pollute more. Heavy metals, destroying forests, plastic oceans, extinction, human encroachment; these are all real things. Hybrid cars, heavy metal batteries, global warming, peak oil, carbon tax, carbon credits, carbon ! carbon! carbon!; these are at best naive theories, at worst, money making enslavement tools.

But it does have to do with money. People WILL (I guarantee it 100%) use cleaner energy ONLY when it is

A: Cheaper than what we use now
B: More efficient than what we use now
C: A compromise of a+b

When a-b or c happens, you better believe the market will pony up the dough to place the infrastructure to utilize the energy. And average joes like me will gladly embrace it.

That hasn't happened. So what do we see from the green energy movement? Coercion. Lies. Hypocrisy. Most of these people want to FORCE "clean" energy on people. They want to tax people into it. They want to centrally plan and coerce the market to accept green energy. Obama and his ilk say we should pay the taxes and "check the air pressure on our tires" until we get windmills and solar power, the least reliable, most expensive, least efficient means of generating power.

As of right now, that's the national energy plan. Not meeting the energy requirements of the country while failing to introduce a viable alternative.

I'm convinced that kneecapping the fossil fuel industry while diverting TAX dollars into expensive, politician owned, impractical forms of energy is nothing but bad news.

Just to conclude this rant: The government will most likely nationalize the energy industry, telling everyone that they can make it greener, better. Their green energy plan will still rely on 85% fossil fuels, just a whole lot more expensive. The trillions in federal subsidies for green energy will go into the pockets of the same-old scammers, and they will call it a green revolution, and people will believe it.

The government will showcase how it can build billion dollar solar plants that encompass 13 square miles of land and produce 1/12th the power that a coal plant does. All for 50x the cost! Now that's progress, right?

[edit on 22-7-2010 by METACOMET]

the thing i do not get about going "GREEN" is the cost, and in the case of GREEN light bulbs, mercury and lead, but it is free cfl i have to every time i change one of them bulbs, and how do i dispose of the cant throw them away can not recycle them, and i have two boxes of them ???????? and one last thing about going green, food and buildings seems to me it is just a corporate spin,, spend 2 to 5 times for the same product than one that is "oil" based. Went to the store last night, a bag of organic grown tomatoes $6:00, same type of store bought 5 for a$1:00 what gives, it seems to me that a food grown with no chem. or other "Oil" based products should cost that much to me it should be 10 for a buck, sense it is "free" grown, same with eggs, never have understood the thought of "but it is GREEN, you have to pay that much, and now that i have typed my 02 cents worth, off to put my name on the wall, i might question the price but i am still for it.

reply to post by METACOMET


Primarily, I think that personally the high cost of the new "GREEN" things are similar to the new technology of Beta to VHS to CDs. Soon as "Green" becomes more popular the price will come down as the other technologies have.
It takes more people working towards self sufficiency to make this really work though. The more you do and take responsibility for within your own surroundings the more easily this will work. The best motivating force is peer pressure. Trust me brothers after this oil spill we need to put the pressure on. Consume only what you need the less you buy the less they can take from us. Respect each other and stand strong.
Thank you for your continued information. I do appreciate it. ^_^

reply to post by bekod


I do agree with you on the oddity of increased price, but it is the self sufficiency that offsets the price. Grow your own where you can, do things yourself, teach yourself. Don't give the Government the power to run your life make a stand. Respect others in the process.
Thank you.^_^

reply to post by Shadowed

you are welcome, and i do grow my own food, my plan was and still is to be totally self sufficient, get completely of the grid, this does take time and money, i have been reading a really good book on this, it is by John Seymour, it tells all on how to live of the grid, it is lacking one thing , how to make your own power and or fuel, there are numinous books on this ,it would be nice to have just one.

reply to post by bekod


You could always use alcohol for fuel. If you are drinking the alcohol you are distilling it makes it much safer. If your not careful you can end up with methanol mixed with you ethanol and then if you drink it you can go blind and/or die. If you're going to drink it you can play around with the flame method for detecting methanol, but that's not for this thread. LMAO. anyways...^_^

No way in hell am I putting my name on this "wall". Why, so I can join the "green" trend? I prefer to remain mostly anonymous than to blindly put my name on some internet site.

reply to post by State of Mind


I don't understand since the gov't knows everything about you anyways, but thanks for stopping by and giving us your opinion. ^_^

reply to post by State of Mind
not to get side tracked but you must know, any time you post, log on or view something on the net/ web they TPTB know and yes corn oats potatoes, and pig poo, or even compost can be made in to fuel, there was a site a few years ago that had them listed i think the PTB pulled it or some oil company, just like the carb that ran on h2o, it was on the site as well, and that would have changed the would, the next one just might be could fusion, just my o2 worth, after all it is free.

reply to post by bekod


I definitely have to say that I do agree with them knowing everything about you.
I guess I never really put much thought into burning poo or compost....I know you can use old frying grease to make fuel...wonder why the petroleum leaders don't just get into that. Lord knows we consume enough fried foods. lol

Originally posted by Dbriefed


Another green effort that backfired was the California MTBE fiasco. MTBE was a waste product that environmentalists promoted as an fuel oxidizer and was added to gasoline. This required retrofitting refineries and the cost was passed on to consumers. MTBE is a carcinogen, and the molecules were smaller than water molecules, so it found it's way out the exhaust, with the rain through the ground and into groundwater poisoning thousands of wells. MTBE had to be removed from gasoline and the refineries had to be retrofitted, and the cost was passed on to consumers. The damage to U.S. groundwater was estimated to be $30 Billion. en.wikipedia.org...


[edit on 21-7-2010 by Dbriefed]

Sorry I didn't catch this the first time through, all I have to say is that you are looking at something first by wikipedia...LMAO...not a reliable source, but also if you look more closely at what is written MTBE has been used for a very long time well before the "Green Hype".
Just on a quick skim over I found a date of 1980 and the rest suggested further back. It was also leaked into the environment primarily from gasoline tanks that leaked. This was from your article. Please reread.
When I get the oppurtunity I will research this further and add to this thanks again for your input.^_^

Originally posted by Shadowed
reply to post by Stewie

 

Sometimes you have to try to do the right thing even if it may actually be just bogus. If you do nothing then certainly nothing good willl come from it.

[edit on 20/7/10 by Shadowed]

This statement is all wrong. I am afraid I have to agree with Stewie.

Your sentiment of trying to do the right thing even if it might actually be just bogus, is exactly why we are in the mess we are in today.

I have followed this attitude all my life becuase it is what everbody has done. I knew in my heart it was all bogus. I didn't listen to myself and buried the truth inside myself like everybody else. Not anymore.

Stop been fooled. Its not about jumping on the bandwagon of the latest trend. You can be sure coperate america is behind this if you look hard enough.

I also don't think anybody needs to bulid anymore walls. Haven't we had enough trouble with walls in the past?

All walls need to be brought down.

Originally posted by JohnySeagull


This statement is all wrong. I am afraid I have to agree with Stewie.

Your sentiment of trying to do the right thing even if it might actually be just bogus, is exactly why we are in the mess we are in today.

I have followed this attitude all my life becuase it is what everbody has done. I knew in my heart it was all bogus. I didn't listen to myself and buried the truth inside myself like everybody else. Not anymore.

Stop been fooled. Its not about jumping on the bandwagon of the latest trend. You can be sure coperate america is behind this if you look hard enough.

I also don't think anybody needs to bulid anymore walls. Haven't we had enough trouble with walls in the past?

All walls need to be brought down.

So lead by example means nothing to you? I understand. No one here is jumping on the band wagon for the latest trend. I just know that in my heart that doing the respectful thing to all life on this planet is the "right" thing to do. I fight for what I do to try and liberate people from the system not to try and get them to follow along.
If you are giving up on doing the "Right" thing then you have fully become part of the system. You have let them win because you don't do the "right" thing. All we need right now is another I'm not going to do anything for anyone or anything other than myself, SHEEPLE.
Walls, If you are talking about the Berlin wall I think you are far off the topic here. On that one. This one can do nothing more than work kind of like a petition, and not even a sound one at that.
Thank you for your input though.^_^

[edit on 25/7/10 by Shadowed]