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"Tax cuts pay for themselves" DEBUNKED (by Bush Sr.)

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posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 12:32 AM
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Originally posted by 12GaugePermissionSlip
reply to post by Doc Velocity
 





People wouldn't FEAR becoming wealthy and would strive to climb the economic ladder to tax-free status.


Here is another lame talking point.

Entrepreneur:"I think I will start a new ______ business. I'll buy my goods at this price and assemble them, then sell it for this and make $10 million. Oh, wait....then I'll have to pay some taxes, so I will only make $7 million. Oh well, I'm scared of that, so screw it."

I am sure that happens everyday.


what happens every day is private business close their doors because taxes are too high.

but don't take my word for it.

here's a fellow ATS subscriber's story:

www.abovetopsecret.com...




posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 12:32 AM
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Originally posted by LOLZebra
reply to post by mnemeth1
 


Aye I just learned about that this semester, it's up in the air in my mind.


economists agree that they disagree.


Your professor is probably a communist.

I'm being serious about that.



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 12:39 AM
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reply to post by mnemeth1
 





Rich people would rather not horde their cash than create jobs.


The top .1% in America now own 49.6% of all the nations income according to a study done by UC Berkley. It has doubled since 2001. From 2002-2007 the top 1% captured two thirds of the economic growth. Think about that. The top 1% captured 66% of economic growth. Leaving the rest of us in the dust. Let's see how they "created jobs" with all the wealth they accumulated. Since "trickle Down Economics was conceived in the early eighties, private sector job growth was at 31%. In 2001 the private sectors were creating only 23% of the jobs, by 2009, it is at 1.1%. But wait, I thought rich people create jobs. No, they don't. They took their tax breaks and kept all the money, all while saving a few more bucks by shipping American jobs overseas. Want me to tell you where the job growth has been? The public sector. That's right, the government. While the private sectors job growth was at 1.1%, the government was at 2.4%. In the last 10 years manufacturing has shed 5.3 million jobs. They are the ones that make things. So, you see, numbers don't lie, and they care what party affiliation you have. They are just plain facts.
images.google.com...://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/economicsunbound/archives/longjobs1.gif&imgrefurl=http://www.businesswee k.com/the_thread/economicsunbound/archives/2009/06/a_lost_decade_f.html&usg=__Sk8cRlTEynGMHhN7WFCyrCdIN3E=&h=455&w=477&sz=9&hl=en&start=3&um=1&tbnid=i fRLCeUApvKADM:&tbnh=123&tbnw=129&prev=/images%3Fq%3D10%2Byear%2Bjob%2Bgrowth%2Bstatistics%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26um%3D1


Corporations Sit On $1.8 Trillion Until They Get Their Way
crooksandliars.com...

[edit on 20-7-2010 by 12GaugePermissionSlip]



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 12:42 AM
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reply to post by 12GaugePermissionSlip
 


Yeah but what you are leaving out is the amount of government that has increased over that same time period.

If socialism provides a more equal distribution of wealth, we should expect to see that ratio decrease over time as government has grown.

In fact, exactly the opposite is true.

As government grows larger, the rich grow richer.

This is because the rich use the power of government to acquire more wealth than they could through the market alone.

Capitalism does not concentrate wealth, socialism/fascism do.


[edit on 20-7-2010 by mnemeth1]



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 12:48 AM
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Originally posted by mnemeth1
Your professor is probably a communist.
I'm being serious about that.


I'm confused about all of my professors.
Most of them try to stay neutral, but you have the occasional right-wing (and the one who said we are on the left side of the laffer curve)...
I just wish more than 2 of them could speak ENGLISH!




posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 12:54 AM
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Originally posted by Doc Velocity
If you progressively stopped taxing the wealthy — the more you earn, the less tax you pay — it would reinvigorate the economy like nothing that has gone before. People wouldn't FEAR becoming wealthy and would strive to climb the economic ladder to tax-free status.


— Doc Velocity


I dont know or have ever heard of anyone that "fears becoming wealthy". In fact, pretty much everyone I have ever met wants to be wealthy. They fear having to give up their wealth.

Way to be intellectually dishonest.



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 12:58 AM
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Originally posted by Xtrozero
If a guy who makes 40k paid 8% flat that would be 3200 dollars in fed taxes and a guy who makes 200k would pay 16k. Both drive on the same roads, but the 40k would be using services that the 200k perosn would never use, but what we have is the 40k pays zero fed taxes and gets all the services and the 200k pays about 60k.


You forget about the services the guy making 200k uses, such as personal and business tax credits for new cars and homes, something the guy making 20k a year at his crap job (so that he is not on unemployment can being called lazy) will never know the feeling of.



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 01:01 AM
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Cant we all agree that it just boils down to greed?

"I want to keep my money, and just F**K everyone else!"

Im sick of hearing about freedom, facism, God, government, the moon, whatever else when it comes to this arguement. What it boils down to is greed - "this is my toy, and you cant play with it."



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 01:37 AM
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Originally posted by 12GaugePermissionSlip

I'll let Rachel Maddow work her journalistic magic (without a chalkboard)



LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, I just can't get past THAT line of Bravo Sierra. Wow.

That's like looking to Rosie O'Donnell for dieting advice.



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 01:41 AM
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Originally posted by 12GaugePermissionSlip
Here is another lame talking point.

No, you missed my point. You're running on parrot-power, you're not thinking. The statement to which you were replying was a sarcastic scenario, which was followed by my actual point.

The fact is, the "greedy rich" sign your paychecks. And they're actually not "greedy" — avarice is more a trait of the covetous lower class. The wealthy are more thoughtful than that, they do not waste their resources on cheap and fleeting consumerism; the wealthy invest in long-term ventures, they don't buy the goodie-garbage that you buy, the disposable junk that devalues instantly.

The wealthy are our nation's greatest resource, because they're carrying the rest of us, signing our paychecks, feeding us, paying us for defrauding the welfare system. Without the wealthy, America's malcontents would get a real taste of poverty on a scale that would probably frighten them to death.


Great. Somebody has fried the display parameters.



— Doc Velocity





[edit on 7/20/2010 by Doc Velocity]



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 03:17 AM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 





The fact is, the "greedy rich" sign your paychecks.


They don't sign mine. I work for myself.




The wealthy are our nation's greatest resource, because they're carrying the rest of us, signing our paychecks, feeding us, paying us for defrauding the welfare system.


Sounds like you and the wealthy need to get a room already, sheesh. Where would the wealthy be, if not for the labor of the working class? They are our nation's greatest resource.




Without the wealthy, America's malcontents would get a real taste of poverty on a scale that would probably frighten them to death.


The wealthy aren't gods just because they own the money. You give all that money to another group and I am sure it would be handled the same way. Or better yet, trickle that $h!t down and let's all get a taste of comfort that would enlighten us to life.

[edit on 20-7-2010 by 12GaugePermissionSlip]



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 05:52 AM
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reply to post by 12GaugePermissionSlip
 


As another member has decided to call it quits in business, so to do corporations get to decide on where they put their money.

What was this comment anyway, your statement that people and companies should not decide where their own money or asset go?

I am sure you must agree this is what you are saying, right?

So you are all for the elimination of personal property rights, correct?

Frelling tyrant is what you are. PERIOD.



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 06:51 AM
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reply to post by 12GaugePermissionSlip
 


well, agree with them or not...when tax cuts go into effect...my paychecks are slightly bigger

business owners spend more
I spend more

I give more to business owners for crap i don't need

they turn around and buy crap they normall don't need as well

The same $1.00 bill gets taxed every time it changes hands, and since it's changing hands more often, it's generating more revenue.

It's no different than simple retail philosophy

Lower your prices, you sell more

You make less per transaction, but you generate a lot more transactions, making more money than you would have if you had only sold a few at the full price.

Tax cuts work as much as we allow them to.

They're a window of opportunity. If our government squanders it (*cough* Regan *cough*) Then, no, it's not going to work.



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 07:38 AM
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Originally posted by 12GaugePermissionSlip
Sounds like you and the wealthy need to get a room already, sheesh. Where would the wealthy be, if not for the labor of the working class? They are our nation's greatest resource.

Here we go, the old make it all nice and cushy for the proletariat.

Yeah, let's beat down those bourgeois capitalists and chop they little .s off in the alley, shall we?

It's the bourgeoisie that keeps the nation alive, for godsake... Of themselves, the proletariat aspire to nothing. They just "bust they ass" workin' like poor ol' workin' men and, shucks, they don't know no differnt. They don't care who's in charge, they just live in this existential fog of "bustin' mah ass" and "where's mah beer?" and "as long as yer livin' under mah roof" mumbo jumbo. The proletariat would stumble and bumble and wander in circles if the bourgeoisie weren't there to dangle a carrot in front of the worker's noses.

It's the bourgeoisie who provide incentive. It's Capitalism that gives men a reason to climb out of the regimented routines of a nanny-state.

Son, if you want to see the USA devolve by about 120 years, just watch what happens when the Constitution is finally discarded by the spineless socialist ass holes in Washington and we officially become a Socialist Regime. The WHOLE USA will look like fekking DETROIT.

Disgusting.

I'm sick of people tip-toeing around this subject.

NO, GODDAMMIT

we do not have to stand by like a bunch of -SNIP- and just be assimilated. The night is fast approaching when all your Marxist dreams are really, really gonna come true — talkin' about full-blown, hardon, lock & load, slingblade insurrection. That's the flip-side of Karl Marx, kids.

And it's going to be pretty, pretty, pretty nasty. A lot nastier than the Globalists anticipated.

— Doc Velocity

Mod Edit -



1b.) Profanity: You will not use profanity in our forums, and will neither post with language or content that is obscene, sexually oriented, or sexually suggestive nor link to sites that contain such content. You will also not use common alternative spellings or net-speak alternative for profane words.

Link

[edit on Tue, 20 Jul 2010 09:39:23 -0500 by MemoryShock]



[edit on 7/20/2010 by Doc Velocity]



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 08:33 AM
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Let's not bash the wealthy for a moment. That's what Obama wants!!!!

The wealthy actually spend money when they aren't penalized for doing so. They build large homes and estates, they buy luxury cars and yachts and planes, they join country clubs and yacht clubs, they dine in restaurants and stay in hotels and resorts, they patronize retail establishments etc etc etc. Guess what, that spending yields jobs. More real jobs than overspending by the govt. will ever provide.

Remember the failed Luxury Excise Tax of the early 90's?? It affected every purchase from fur coats to luxury yachts. People lost jobs because of it. The wealthy simply stopped spending!!! 7,600 jobs in the yacht industry alone were lost and in 1991 the federal government paid out over $7 million more in unemployment benefits to those workers than it collected in luxury tax revenues.

When taxes are raised on the rich it reduces what they can or will spend on goods and services provided by others.

Flat tax for all and no penalties for being successful or for inheriting money, land and physical property.



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 10:04 AM
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reply to post by endisnighe
 


Good morning. Where were you last night when we had some real stimulating intellectual banter? Now you came here and messed up a perfectly good thread.




What was this comment anyway, your statement that people and companies should not decide where their own money or asset go?


Never said that.




I am sure you must agree this is what you are saying, right?


No, I don't agree. What are you babbling about?




So you are all for the elimination of personal property rights, correct?


Absolutely not correct. No more so than you being for eliminating chocolate covered goat cheese.




Frelling tyrant is what you are. PERIOD.


Labels, labels, and more fracking labels. You are a labeler, exclamation point!

I find I have to dumb down my comments for you.



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 10:31 AM
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reply to post by Doc Velocity
 




Here we go, the old make it all nice and cushy for the proletariat.


Here you go, describing the rich as though they were Greek gods waving their money wands around for the poor stupid peasants.




The proletariat would stumble and bumble and wander in circles if the bourgeoisie weren't there to dangle a carrot in front of the worker's noses.


and who couldn't even crap their own pants if not shown how by the awesome rich gods of the universe. Your affection for the rich is disturbing. Yall need to get a room.




It's the bourgeoisie who provide incentive. It's Capitalism that gives men a reason to climb out of the regimented routines of a nanny-state.


So it's not the free will of men, the desire for a better life, it's not anything that can be found inside of a poor person. It's an incentive that comes from a wealthy person. Dream on, Deny delusions!

If you're so scared of the socialism, then why don't you say something about your precious bourgeoisie boogieman that created exotic financial instruments that created nothing tangible, just wealth for themselves until the whole thing came crumbling down faster than the twin towers, destroying the middle class' pensions, old people's retirements, millions of jobs, and the world's economy? Sorry, but i don't worship the bourgeoisie. I find their existence disgusting.



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 09:29 PM
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reply to post by 12GaugePermissionSlip
 


I was tired from mowing several lawns. Being college edumacated with 20 some years in construction and business, one that DOES NOT need the government handouts, I will go back to being part of the labor pool as the socialists/corporatists whore destroy the economy to implement even further destructive policies.

Funny how the Federal Reserve being at the center of it all has Acquired even more power from their socialist lap dogs in government.

Oh, and do not deflect that you do not support the removal of private property rights. YOU are directly quoting from the HuffPo and DailyKos talking points of blaming the corporations of sitting on $1.8 Trillion dollars and not reinvesting into the economy.

As I said, you want to force these companies to dump their money into the economy, CORRECT?

Just as another said in this thread, people running businesses are crunching the numbers and are seeing the writing on the wall. Business cannot survive in the crap coming down from Socialist DC. Sorry, hear about the MILLIONS it is costing Caterpillar in the already instituted HCB? Oh, missed that info did you?

Do you know ANYTHING about the USSR black market situation in the end of there empire? The black market was the only thing keeping their society running. I called it over a year ago now.

Black markets, here we come. Load up on silver and gold folks. This will be the new exchange medium. The dollar will be worthless very soon. The government will begin seizing assets from these companies and then the individuals will be DIRECTLY in their sights next.

That is what happens in falls of empires that are snakes. They always eat themselves as they fall.

History would be a GREAT thing for you to look into OP. Seems you need to read a little about the founders of the US. They WARNED YOU exactly what has happened since Dec 23 1913!

A Day that will live in INFAMY!



Amazingly enough, others should have used that to speak about him.



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 09:59 PM
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reply to post by endisnighe
 





Oh, and do not deflect that you do not support the removal of private property rights. YOU are directly quoting from the HuffPo and DailyKos talking points of blaming the corporations of sitting on $1.8 Trillion dollars and not reinvesting into the economy.
As I said, you want to force these companies to dump their money into the economy, CORRECT?


I didn't deflect. and NO, you are incorrect. I never said they should be forced. It would be nice, though, if they felt a sense of patriotism for the state of America, or at least a sense of humanity for the unemployed, instead of just a sense of greed. I challenge you, or anyone reading this, to find where i said anyone should be forced anything or advocated for removal of property rights. You need to get a grip.




Sorry, hear about the MILLIONS it is costing Caterpillar in the already instituted HCB? Oh, missed that info did you?


Nope. I read where they made a net profit in 2009 of $895 million out of $32.4 billion in sales, according to its Web site, and they estimate the HCB will cost $100 million, so Boo f'ing Hoo! They lose 1/9 of profit so their employees and families won't lose everything in the event of a sickness. Sounds like a win for the workers for a change.
www.cnn.com...




History would be a GREAT thing for you to look into OP. Seems you need to read a little about the founders of the US. They WARNED YOU exactly what has happened since Dec 23 1913!


History? You mean Woodrow Wilson's quote. Perhaps it's you who should read more history:

""I am a most unhappy man. I have unwittingly ruined my country. A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men. We have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated Governments in the civilized world no longer a Government by free opinion, no longer a Government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a Government by the opinion and duress of a small group of dominant men." -Woodrow Wilson, after signing the Federal Reserve into existence

It seems to be all over the internet so it must be true... but seriously: many of the "Federal Reserve controlling the world" conspiracy buffs seem to cite it, but I haven't seen any that actually cite a date or a specific document, and with conspiracy buffs even many quotes that do have specified citations turn out to be bogus. Until it can be found in some fairly reliable source, I'd treat it with extreme skepticism.
"I have unwittingly ruined my country" seems a bit too extreme of a statement for any politician to ever say. I wouldn't put much trust in too many of the "conspiracy" quotes that are used by all kinds of people— even the legitimate ones are often taken out of context in extreme ways. ~ Achilles 14:16, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

en.wikiquote.org...:Woodrow_Wilson

[edit on 20-7-2010 by 12GaugePermissionSlip]



posted on Jul, 21 2010 @ 12:41 AM
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Originally posted by aching_knuckles


You forget about the services the guy making 200k uses, such as personal and business tax credits for new cars and homes, something the guy making 20k a year at his crap job (so that he is not on unemployment can being called lazy) will never know the feeling of.


So what kind of credit? I guess you need to pay taxes in the first place to actually get a credit. Buying is a one time deal.

With your examples the people who make more money get breaks on their taxes that they pay in the range of 28 to 43% so they might pay a little less where the services I'm talking about cost tax money to support. After doing everything I still pay 50 to 70k in fed taxes and I'm far from anything remotly rich.

I like to think of people as assets or liabilities to society.



[edit on 21-7-2010 by Xtrozero]



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