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Jehova's Witnesses and Suicide

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posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 08:48 PM
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reply to post by tracer7
 


This is the brainwashing sort of stuff that just iritates me to no end. BTW I am agnostic.




posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 08:56 PM
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I was raised a JW; my dad was an elder & mom a regular pioneer. I went into the army never looked back. Later down the road in life when I meet my father again we hit it off great; he no longer is involved in the "truth" as JW's call it.
( He's an Apostate now) My life is good I went threw a lot of learning the real world in my 20's. But with all religions they are there to control the masses. Just like all other aspects you have people who can't handle the transition can't look past there own small egg of an world. And won't try to live without there support. SHTF they would die anyways.

THEY ARE WEAK MINDED & TAUGHT BY RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS. THATS LIFE..



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 09:00 PM
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My whole family used to be JW's, but because of the suicide of my good friend who was a pioneer at the time, it threw everything off balance, and everyone left, except my grandmother, whose been in the religion for over 30 years. The truly sad part is she told my brother recently that she used to cry herself to sleep every night, knowing that all of her family would die and not live in the "new system" with her. I feel bad for her, but she doesn't want help, and trying to convince them otherwise is like talking to a brick wall. Even if i could talk any sense into her, i fear if she knew she wasted 30 years of her life, she would end it all.



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 09:03 PM
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I was debating whether or not I wanted to comment on this thread, and Ive come to the conclusion that whether or not we like them, their message, or even their suits, they are the ones that suffer.

The most identical trait that witness/x-witness have is their sense of not being able to communicate thoroughly with others, except fellow witnesses. When I saw this I spoke to a friend of mine who was a witness all his life, (and is no longer), and though he hasn't been and has been shunned by family, he still hurts inside due to this.

The stories are all to real for those who been there, but for those who haven't, you can never truly know what goes through the mind of someone who has been controlled so thoughtlessly, that they can never truly be themselves again.

Parents have allowed their children to die, because of the doctrine, older parents have lost their children and grandchildren, wives have lost husbands (and vice versa), women and men have been abused, but due to their "you need a 3rd witness for your claim to count", countless people are allowed to abuse without the fear of persecution.

This will go on, and its not just the JW"s, its almost all religions, but this one seems to be the one that comes closest to home. When I am confronted by a JW, I am not rude (I used to be), but I will give them my reason for not wanting to join, and then ask them 3 questions.

1. Do you know about Beth-Sharim?

2. Did you know that WBTS/JW was part of the U.N. for 10 years?

3. What happened in 1914 and 1974-75?

that usually gives them a heads up, that I'm aware, but some will ask for the answer, and with a little information, it can change someones views, not because I said something, but because they will be forced to look for the answers themselves, and confront the Society that they are currently affiliated with.


Peace to you...



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 09:14 PM
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reply to post by NoRegretsEver
 


Thank you for your input. I have just looked up Beth-Sarim.

But could you please go into detail about #'s 2 and 3 please?



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 09:25 PM
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reply to post by impaired
 


Jehovah’s Witnesses must stay neutral in political affairs including not supporting charters/constitutions/wars, or risk excommunication and shunning by the congregation. This is taken so seriously that many thousands of JWs have been brutalized and killed by dictators over their neutrality stance such as in Malawi. The JW leadership has gone so far as to view the United Nations as the Bible's "evil scarlet colored wild beast" (similar to how Catholics view the Antichrist). In fact their literature is filled with pictures of the UN building being completely destroyed in their upcoming Armageddon. The JW leadership has even made a claim to obtain funds for the JW Holocaust victims who survived Hilter in World War 2.

Yet in 2001, the United Nations confirmed that the JW leadership, through its parent Watchtower Corporation, had been in a quiet, 10-year, political partnership with the UN. A partnership that required the Watchtower to voluntarily approach the UN, support the UN’s Charter, disseminate pro UN information and in effect support UN war actions such as the 1991 Gulf War. The JW leaders quickly quit the UN partnership after the public exposure in October 2001.

Many advocates have been trying to get all of the facts out of the United Nations and the Watchtower with respect to this partnership. Neither organization wants to release their files or even a list of public documents that the Watchtower apparently disseminated on behalf of the UN. The UN refuses to budge and there is no UN "Freedom of Information Act" to uncover even redacted file documents. This is especially troubling since the UN makes it a criteria that groups are to be transparent if they want to partner with the UN as an “associated non governmental organization”.

These are they types of things that they allow their members to think, but will not tell the truth about.

www.watchtowernews.org...

Peace to you...



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by NoRegretsEver
reply to post by impaired
 


Jehovah’s Witnesses must stay neutral in political affairs including not supporting charters/constitutions/wars, or risk excommunication and shunning by the congregation. This is taken so seriously that many thousands of JWs have been brutalized and killed by dictators over their neutrality stance such as in Malawi. The JW leadership has gone so far as to view the United Nations as the Bible's "evil scarlet colored wild beast" (similar to how Catholics view the Antichrist). In fact their literature is filled with pictures of the UN building being completely destroyed in their upcoming Armageddon. The JW leadership has even made a claim to obtain funds for the JW Holocaust victims who survived Hilter in World War 2.

Yet in 2001, the United Nations confirmed that the JW leadership, through its parent Watchtower Corporation, had been in a quiet, 10-year, political partnership with the UN. A partnership that required the Watchtower to voluntarily approach the UN, support the UN’s Charter, disseminate pro UN information and in effect support UN war actions such as the 1991 Gulf War. The JW leaders quickly quit the UN partnership after the public exposure in October 2001.

Many advocates have been trying to get all of the facts out of the United Nations and the Watchtower with respect to this partnership. Neither organization wants to release their files or even a list of public documents that the Watchtower apparently disseminated on behalf of the UN. The UN refuses to budge and there is no UN "Freedom of Information Act" to uncover even redacted file documents. This is especially troubling since the UN makes it a criteria that groups are to be transparent if they want to partner with the UN as an “associated non governmental organization”.

These are they types of things that they allow their members to think, but will not tell the truth about.

www.watchtowernews.org...

Peace to you...


Thank you again. It seems the plot just keeps thickening. It's really sad, and I can't believe how evil and lost people really are.

What has to be done for us to all work together, instead of being divided? The culprit is always religion in my eyes...

(A) God is fine, but religion (imho)...



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 09:37 PM
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As far as 1914 and 1975.

The WTS tried to cover its past up by changing history. Example: Current WTS publications, such as the Revelation book, page 105, claims that the Bible Students (aka JWs) looked forward to 1914 as the Beginning of the time of the end, when in fact even a minimal effort to check its history shows this to be a lie.

The Bible Students were looking forward to 1914 as the end of this system, as the upper most limit when Armageddon will happen. The Bible Students often felt that this old system could not even last until 1914. Thus a totally opposite picture is presented in their own history from what the WTS claims in its more recent literature.

www.jehovahs-witness.net...


Alot of people were looking forward to the "End Times", but when nothing happened in 1914, which mind you came and gone, they posted that the dates were wrong and it would be 1974. Where thousands upon thousands of people began to sell their homes, leave school, quit their jobs. Still nothing happened.

People were also advised to make spare rooms for their loved ones that would return from the dead to live amongst them.


Peace to you...



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 09:44 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 



I agree. I am not a JW, but I love studying religion, and they love teaching it, so I have done bible study twice before they decided I was intractable.


I think a lot of the ways they practice Christianity are more in keeping with what Jesus wanted than the way most Christians practice. I am sure they have some weird stuff going on once you are in. Religions are "cliques" and these cliques benefits from membership. (Financially) So you have to bring in new money, errrr.... members. But this is true with most religions. And many of them try to make the church such a big part of your life (your friends, your family) that it is very difficult for you to leave. And they use expulsion or shunning as a way to keep you in line, and the threat of what could happen to your soul for even more leverage.

Its how the business of religion works.

Mind you I am not opposed to God, or spirituality at all. I have my own belief system, and I think Jesus did pretty darn good. As did Buddha, and a few others. But religion is a business. You dont need a middle man to have a relationship with the divine.

(And some of the New Ages stuff isnt any better than the mainstream stuff. Same techniques, different terminology.)

For the OP,

Remember when you read those posts that most of the people who read the whole thing had an ax to grind. The comments are not a representative sample, you would expect to have a much higher percentage of people who agreed with the article posting to it, because a much higher percentage of disgruntled JW would be drawn to read it in the first place.

Not saying they aint got some weirdness going on, but just that the comments arent a good sample of real opinions from JWs.



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 09:48 PM
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It gets more twisted. Here are some pictures of the founder Charles T.Russell's grave.

freeminds.org...


freeminds.org...

freeminds.org...



freeminds.org...

Im sure people here would wonder about the symbolism of these pics, and possibly the true agenda.


Peace to you..



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 10:02 PM
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To the OP, I think a majority of people who kill themselves have serious mental health issues.

As for the ax grinders.

People make mistakes.

Organizations make mistakes.

Sometimes people can't own up to their mistakes, and they have to blame others for their problems.

Remember, almost everyone, is the hero of their own story.



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 10:06 PM
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I remember hearing about a JW doctrine that is kept hidden, but is still in use today. The doctrine deals with how the governing body obtain information from the Pleiades. After i heard this i tried to research it and i could not find anything. If this doctrine is true...I would love to show see it.



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 10:18 PM
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Originally posted by dusty1
To the OP, I think a majority of people who kill themselves have serious mental health issues.

As for the ax grinders.

People make mistakes.

Organizations make mistakes.

Sometimes people can't own up to their mistakes, and they have to blame others for their problems.

Remember, almost everyone, is the hero of their own story.



With all do respect, I don't think you've read everything presented in the OP.
And you seem to have a biased approach - if you don't mind me saying.
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but if I may - do you belong to The Watch Tower or any other Abrahamic Religion? Just asking. I'll have no problem putting my foot in my mouth.

And I don't mean to come off as a jerk here.



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 10:21 PM
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Originally posted by siak91188
I remember hearing about a JW doctrine that is kept hidden, but is still in use today. The doctrine deals with how the governing body obtain information from the Pleiades. After i heard this i tried to research it and i could not find anything. If this doctrine is true...I would love to show see it.


Great. Let me find out that the supposed Pleadians are malevolent. Billy Meier never told us that!



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 10:25 PM
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Heres some more interesting reading about the Pleiades and the Watch Tower.

Also a great site for LOTS of info.

Three article in the Awake! magazine (1994 July 8) deride astrology and star worship. What is missing in these articles is what the Watchtower Society (WTS) used to teach.

For 62 years, 1891 to 1953, the WTS taught that God resided on the star Alcyone in the Pleiades constellation and that from this star he governed the universe!

This belief was taught in 1891 in Volume 3 of Studies in the Scriptures and was based on passages in the Bible.

The WTS also taught that the Great Pyramid of Egypt provided additional proof of God's throne in the Pleiades! (The Golden Age 1924 September 10 pp. 793-794)

The International Bible Students Souvenir Convention Report (1914) says:

The Pleiades, the centre of the universe, are located in Taurus, and as though to emphasize the foundation, the original meaning of Alcyone, one of the chief stars of the Pleiades, is "foundation". How significant that the whole universe should throughout the ages swing about that constellation and that star which alone picture so clearly the Ransom! The bullock offered on the brazen altar in the court was indeed the foundation: it represented the sacrifice of the Lord. The bullock in the sky represented the very same thing. (pp. 252-253)

The book Reconciliation (1928) says:

But the greatness in size of other stars or planets is small when compared with the Pleiades in importance, because the Pleiades is the place of the eternal throne of God. (p. 14)

In 1953 the doctrine about Alcyone and Pleiades was discarded.

www.theforbiddenknowledge.com...

Peace to you...



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 10:27 PM
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Originally posted by impaired
With all do respect, I don't think you've read everything presented in the OP.
And you seem to have a biased approach


And you don't. You're not really good at this debate stuff are you?


Originally posted by impaired

Great. Let me find out that the supposed Pleadians are malevolent. Billy Meier never told us that!




I'll have no problem putting my foot in my mouth.



Thank god there will be no discomfort then.



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by impaired
With all do respect, I don't think you've read everything presented in the OP.
And you seem to have a biased approach


And you don't. You're not really good at this debate stuff are you?


Originally posted by impaired

Great. Let me find out that the supposed Pleadians are malevolent. Billy Meier never told us that!




I'll have no problem putting my foot in my mouth.



Thank god there will be no discomfort then.


Well, being that your a mod and that I have to watch myself, I'll just put my foot in my mouth anyway.

With that I humbly ask - what am I missing here?



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by impaired
Well, being that your a mod and that I have to watch myself, I'll just put my foot in my mouth anyway.


Weak dude. This isn't GLP. We don't ban members for disagreeing with staff.


With that I humbly ask - what am I missing here?


Damned if I know. You seem to have all the answers, no matter how off topic they are. You want to know something? Ask. I'll give you the straight poop. In the right thread.



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid

Originally posted by impaired
Well, being that your a mod and that I have to watch myself, I'll just put my foot in my mouth anyway.


Weak dude. This isn't GLP. We don't ban members for disagreeing with staff.






With that I humbly ask - what am I missing here?


Damned if I know. You seem to have all the answers, no matter how off topic they are. You want to know something? Ask. I'll give you the straight poop. In the right thread.


I always TRY to be a humble person. If I seem to come off as a know-it-all, I sincerely apologize. For my own sake (and ATS's), I will review my previous posts to see where I went wrong...

I also have a grudge towards organized religion (truth be told), so that might be it.

So where should I start with the questions? You said "In the right thread". Can this be it or should I start another.



Edit: And what's up with the Ad Hominems? You say I need to ask. You say I might not like the answers...

Why not just let it loose here?

[edit on 7/19/2010 by impaired]



posted on Jul, 19 2010 @ 11:35 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


And biased or not biased - I am trying to stick to people's own testimonies. Whatever bias I may have is moot - I don't see how I am distorting facts here. I have that angry edge, but that's all I'm seeing here. P

We have an article. We have people giving heartfelt stories in the comments section - stories that are incredibly deep. I'm honestly struggling to see where I'm going wrong.

The comments speak for themselves, and that's what this thread is about: How some JW's are suicidal.

That's the objective approach, and it seems (to me, at least) that you're taking it from a subjective side - your own personal experiences which I have yet to hear about.

Those comments (yeah, I know - comments, comments, comments) are from people from around the country (or globe even).



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