A REAL bi-partisan issue: The Assassination of American Citizens

reply to post by projectvxn
Alright,. You win,.. we are all doomed to die at the hands of the 1% by the flick of a pen,.. or whisper.
with respects ,.. you can post all the articles you wish,.. But I just don't see this becoming a exterminating concern,..
incidentally one of my favorite CD's is operation mindcrime,. BY QR

[edit on 20-7-2010 by Lil Drummerboy]

reply to post by Lil Drummerboy


I didn't say that and you are over simplifying a serious issue.

The unchecked power of the presidency to KILL Americans isn't a joke man. And no one is saying this is going to be an extermination. What I am saying, and many others in the media, politics, and policy circles, is that this kind of power, unchecked, can lead to arbitrary killings. This includes dissidents.

I refer to articles because it is history. Proven history that sheds light on the governments track record of abuse of power.

You're not doing yourself a favor by deriding my effort to provide history and context here.

reply to post by projectvxn
Curb the hostility,..
For starters,.. where is this gonna go,. Probably no further than this site
I commend you on your search for this info,.. great job
No the prez should not have such liberties nor the people loose them.
BUT,.on the serious side this,. as I stated earlier,. this is not mass media,.
And the general population of this country will not get this message You are sending.
MSM would not hear of it.
and when a anchor does speak poorly of the prez,.. they are relieved of their position,..
it is what it is,..
Still,.. people would not stand for it if it was to begin affecting them personally,..

It wasn't long ago that Obama said,"'We are God's partners in matters of life and death' "....I never liked the sounds of that!

Nice job presenting this issue from both sides. It doesn't get any worse than this as far as unchecked powers. I hope people will wake up and see just what has happened in this country.

reply to post by Lil Drummerboy


This is why I encourage you to do more research on the matter. IT'S ALL OVER THE MEDIA. And the fact that you seem to be downplaying this issue is not garnering hostility from me. It's garnering frustration that you refuse to see what is being plainly put before your eyes and everyone's eyes to see.

My sources are MSNBC, Fox Business Network, Salon.com, Glenn Beck.com and the New York Times.

That IS the MSM. Not an ATS original. There's no outrage because we have people like you who downplay this as no big deal. Saying that it will never fly, when the damned spruce goose is flying right NOW.

reply to post by On the Edge
Oh I do believe we are in for an interesting ride,.
Something that I have always said to my friends is ,.
The president is just a puppet, and if you believe you are free your a fool..

reply to post by projectvxn
Well Friend( if I may call you that)
we will see,
I watch the same news you do apparently,.
I am not blind nor do I not see
Just don't believe the play before me

reply to post by Lil Drummerboy


Fair enough

And yes you may. My frustration doesn't mean I don't like you. I like debate, especially when heated. Please don't take anything too personally.

Edit to add~

I don't actually watch any of them intently. But I don't mind using them to prove a point.

[edit on 21-7-2010 by projectvxn]

reply to post by projectvxn
None taken,..
have you watched the new "wake up call" by john nada series yet on You tube?
Some old stuff fused in but a good watch.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by Lil Drummerboy

 

It's happening man. Read the post above.

I know you didn't bother to read the thread or watch any of the videos, but maybe the article above wouldn't be too much of an effort would it?

I believe the poster child for blind allegiance has arrived, or
perhaps apathetic disdain ?

I totally agree with your assessment that the MSM uses
NLP techniques to brainwash the masses.

The problem is even if you talk to most of the masses about
the situation you end up feeling like "not sure" in Idiocracy.

It is pretty damn hopeless.

Good Luck to you all !

Aside from the obvious further Constitutional destruction, no doubt enabled by the Patriot Act, they're going to assassinate this American citizen, but they couldn't have simply assassinated, say, Saddam Hussein and saved the country a few trillion dollars and kept us from teetering on the edge of bankruptcy?

Betcha this guy was CIA too. There's more to this than we're hearing. And more to the reason it was announced as well.

Coat-tail libertarian spot on.

reply to post by Ex_MislTech


Actually I believe it is difficult to see a few month or a few years in the future when this may become a regular occurrence in American life. The idea that the government would go after it's people with sniper rifles is hard to deal with. But I say look to the past. Look to the transgressions already committed by this government and it becomes easier and easier to understand.

Some of us are at different stages of this.

reply to post by ~Lucidity


I thought about this. And then I realized that the war on terror is actually a war on the American people. They'd like to get rid of anyone who stands up for themselves and the Constitution.

Make no mistake folks. We are at war.

reply to post by projectvxn


Forgive me for bringing these quotes of yours from a different thread. But they relate to this thread, so i wanted to bring the discussion here. Here, you speak of issues of assassination programs against American citizens, the Patriot Act, warrantless wiretapping, and 2 useless and costly wars:

Originally posted by projectvxn
Yes those issues are scary. But they won't go away if we avoid them, they'll just get more frightening.

My point is that they won't go away if we talk about them, either. They won't go away, no matter what we do. That was part of my point as to why I avoid these heavy, life and death issues on ATS. I read this OP and I agree with you completely, although I doubt this will become a common occurrence. But writing and reading about it isn't going to change anything. It will get the information out there, but as you have pointed out with the MSM sourcing, it's already out there. You can lead a horse to water...

This same question comes up on ATS every week. What are we to DO??? The powers in the US have been unchecked for many years now. It's just gotten so blatant now that even the people farthest from the government are realizing it and it's being advertised in the MSM and NOTHING is being done. Is there something to do? Or will we just talk about it? Argue about it? Get upset, frustrated and afraid about it? Worry about it?

What is the difference in outcome if we talk about assassinations or birth certificates? I don't see one.

And about the birth certificate issue, you said:

Originally posted by projectvxn
This issue will go round and round and round and no one will be smarter, nothing will be better, nothing will be gained.

Whether we talk about American Citizen Assassination or Obama's birth conspiracy theory, we'll probably do some research and learn something. I ALWAYS do. So, as I see it, the outcome will be the same in either case. We will talk about it, we MAY learn something and nothing will be better and nothing will be gained, either way.

I'm sorry to be such a defeatist, but at this point, I honestly don't see how we can turn this around, not by revolution or restoration, because people don't have the guts to do a thing, except maybe leave the country.

Good thread.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

I'm sorry to be such a defeatist, but at this point, I honestly don't see how we can turn this around, not by revolution or restoration, because people don't have the guts to do a thing, except maybe leave the country.

Well, maybe you should join the vilified darkside there BH.

I and others are working on it. Maybe just maybe we can convince enough Democrats and Republicans to come over to the wingy side.

One of our efforts-Nullify Now

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


What to do, what to do...

Well, for one, when it comes to these issues we must try as hard as humanly possible not to make them partisan. We must keep the issue alive in the minds of our fellow citizens. Neighbors, friends, family. We must make those annoying phone calls and e-mails to congress, we must direct whatever media resources we have to bring light to these issues. It's not hard to do something, but it is hard to watch the consequences of doing nothing.

Ordinarily I would say, great more reactionary fear mongering by the Libertarian lunatics, but you know, I actually agree with you.

They have gone too far out of control, instead of just big government they have become big brother. How could you honestly freely express yourself in a nation where if you say the wrong thing or talk to the wrong people or visit the wrong site they can stalk you without a warrant. Where if you talk about any form of dissent they can arrest you. Where they are not obligated to abide by national and international law, the suspension of habeas corpus, the suffocation of Geneva Convention, the death of Liberty. And now if they, some bureaucrat, consider you a threat to our national security they can order you shot.

I would like to know which court they went to obtain a legal right to assassinate someone. When someone is found shot dead in cold blood they run the police force, they can cover the evidence because they are the superiors. When a government is given the right to kill its' own people it has officially stepped over a line that just cannot be crossed without reaction. They have officially declared their subversion of the Constitution and if they do not abide by the Constitution then we have no reason to abide by ANY of their laws. We have 100% right to deny them anything and everything, their laws are now void.

As of the day that this legislation passed, dissent is not just Patriotic now it is legal. They have officially handed over their right to governance. When you ignore the Constitution we have every right to destroy you and it would be Un-American to stand idly by.

They have declared war on the people they are supposed to protect, so why shouldn’t we on them?

I would prefer they just repeal this law immediately without partisan debate, but if they were overthrown I wouldn't be sad in the least. I would say good riddance. Tell your Congressman/Senator to repeal it immediately.

reply to post by projectvxn


I thought I would give you an update on this OP.

White House invokes state secrets privilege to block targeted killings suit

The White House on Saturday invoked the state secrets privilege to toss a lawsuit brought by civil liberties groups against an assassination plan against terrorists that would also target a U.S. citizen.

Anwar al-Awlaki, an alleged al-Qaeda regional commander born in New Mexico and reportedly hiding in Yemen, has been linked to the Fort Hood shootings and the attempt by a Nigerian man to blow up an airliner over Detroit on Christmas Day. The cleric, author of "44 Ways to Support Jihad," also reportedly inspired the Times Square car bombing attempt in May, and placed a fatwa on Seattle Weekly cartoonist Molly Norris for suggesting a controversial “Everybody Draw Muhammad Day”.

He's said to be on a U.S. list that approves death or capture of key terrorist suspects. The 39-year-old's placement on the list in April made him the first U.S. citizen to land on the CIA targeted kill list.

Al-Awlaki's father enlisted the American Civil Liberties Union and the Center for Constitutional Rights to challenge the program in court and declare the targeted killings unconstitutional.

This could make a good thread alone.

Anyway, state secrets as the excuse. Oh well, Obama looks more and more like a GW on steroids everyday.

i lean right so what i'm about to say will be obvious.

targeting "some" citizens or others is the duty and responsibility of this country

and while it sounds like it is taking away the rights of that individual in all reality it is protecting yours and yes its a constitutional right but when someone tries to kill you they are taking your right away its a lousy dichotomy.

theres noway you can look and say "yeah its a moral thing to do " however its not moral when you know someone will do everything in their power to kill you and you do nothing

the fort hood shooter if he was taken out those people would'nt have died
bin laden was actually taken out 9-11,afghanistan,iraq,gitmo would'nt have happened.( i know most people dont believe this but hey gore won 2000 there would'nt be any conspiracy theorys i belive)

should that cleric be taken out no should any american citizen be taken out no

but when its this country's duty and responsibility to protect its own citizens there are things that have to be done that you will never ever like and in all reality you should never like it and when you start to like it that's evil


when it comes to the government turning on its own citizens the right has a slim chance because they own lots of guns and ammo but im telling you the left has no chance simply because the left does'nt believe in having guns and they are too dependent on others to "save" them.

please don't take that as an insult its the way i see it and there is nothing saying that you have to agree with it.

Originally posted by ZuluChaka
reply to post by projectvxn

 

I agree. That is why I said the right decision for me is to conclude that Obama is wrong in doing so.

What worries me about your post is that you said the man was guilty of aiding terrorists. Have you abandoned the legal process? Oh, this one's said to be guilty, so it's ok if he's killed without the government respecting the legal process.

This mindset worries me terribly. It tells me people have bought into the whole knee-jerk 'terrorist' fear/murder tactic. It is sufficient for someone to call someone a 'terrorist' for them to be immediately believed guilty and worthy of being killed without any further ado.

This is exactly how criminal mafia gangs operate - outside of the law and the legal process, and I find it terrifying that so many people seem to have adopted the attitude that it's perfectly ok for the government to act in this way in relation to ANY citizen.

Your hesitation was not about this man being murdered, it was about setting precedent.

The fact that anyone even hesitates on this issue is, IMO, the cause for the most serious concern.

It seems to me that too many people have been brainwashed by too much hollywood who dunnits and are left with only a tenuous grip of real life.