EMT Accused Of Ignoring Dying Woman Is Killed [NYC]

Originally posted by Miraj
Was it Star Trek that had the saying "The needs of the few do not outweigh the needs of many"?

You can help more people by not losing your certification/license. You can help almost no one if you do.

So having the ability to "save someones life and doing nothing" when some spontaneous life threatening emergency arises in their presence makes sense because "they" might lose their "license/certificate" and then couldn't help others that might "called them" for medical attention makes sense?

It's seems more like a fear of losing their "occupation".

You know what, even without a license or certificate that person could STILL help somebody in "medical need" if they ran across them in a store or on the street.

They would still have the ability and knowledge to make a difference, and don't forget about the Good Samaritan law, which protects people from law suits, especially in New York.

There's also other sayings, ...

Down in their hearts, wise men know this truth: the only way to help yourself is to help others.

If you want happiness for an hour, take a nap. If you want happiness for a day, go fishing. If you want happiness for a year, inherit a fortune. If you want happiness for a lifetime, help somebody.

People must help one another; it is nature’s law.

We can’t help everyone, but everyone can help someone.

Being good is commendable, but only when it is combined with doing good is it useful.

And the best 2 of all for this thread, ...

It is the greatest of all mistakes to do nothing because you can only do little - do what you can.

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

[edit on 7/20/2010 by Keyhole]

Originally posted by Boomer1941

Originally posted by Dumbass
That is not Karma...


[edit on 19-7-2010 by Dumbass]

What a profound statement, it's obvious you don't know what Karma is.

And again special post for you:

Originally posted by Dumbass
Realize this about Karma:

According to Indian Yogic system the time of death is governed by the karma of a living entity. When the karma's course is finished then death takes place. It is not clear how to find out what constitutes karma, its duration or how many karmas a person accumulates during his/her lifetime.

So that is why my first post was:

Originally posted by Dumbass
That is not Karma...

[edit on 19-7-2010 by Dumbass]

And also for you:
reply to post by LiQuiD_FuSioN


It is like you all don't get death isn't a punishment if related to Karma

You have learned your lesson now you may go, is it that hard to understand??? If you need to have some lessons from Karma, you will live to endure them, His suffering would be much higher if some jerk decided to not help HIS pregnant wife and he had to live with that for another 30 years or so.

[edit on 20-7-2010 by Dumbass]

reply to post by Keyhole


Yes it does. If you have protocols (As these EMTs likely did.) then you will lose your license for acting against them. Doctors is different.

Good Samaritan laws DO NOT apply to medical professionals.

I don't think you have an understanding to the EMS world.

If you're going to quote the bible, why don't you ask god why he didn't save them?

This talk of karma and punishment is BS. People can't accept coincedences or the complexity of the situation.

[edit on 20-7-2010 by Miraj]

its a shame these emt's ignored a woman in dire need, and its a tragedy she died from there lack of response.

but death is a hard thing to say anyone deserved, maybe they learned from this mistake and never let anything like it happened again, maybe they went way out of there way to help the next person in need.

to say they got what they deserve or "thats karma for ya" seems a little harsh in my opinion, everyone makes mistakes, or horrible decisions. The good ones learn from it.

reply to post by Keyhole


if they did do something and the woman lived
but they made a mistake and the woman sues and they end up losing their jobs, what happens then?


same on good samarten,

if they dont want things like this to happen, they should make it law so you cant sue over the most retarded things

Originally posted by DOADOA

Originally posted by DrChuck

Originally posted by DOADOA
im telling you, these medical people are not in it to help people, they just want that fat paycheck.

If you have such a big problem with these "medical people", why don't you get your smart little ass go to med school and heal yourself?

and become a blood sucking leech like you?

i can heal myself without spending most of my life memorizing and burying my face in a bunch of books. the next time i need a doctor i'll rattle the cage. and stop fornicating nurses in rooms with open wounds.

this is not off topic. we have here a doctor and he must justify why the likes of him let a pregnant women and her unborn baby die.

[edit on 20-7-2010 by DOADOA]

First off, I'm not a doctor, just a lowly med student with $200,000 worth of debt.

Secondly I never justified the "likes of me" letting a pregnant woman and her newborn die. I was illustrating the point that we have a screwed up system that scares the "likes of me" from doing what we have to do.

Your angry because some doctors would dare to think about their well being over another? Are you kidding me? Lets see you put up your house to save someone else and risk losing it along with your job that you worked 8 years to attain. Thats the risk our system puts health workers in.

Doctors aren't some superbenevolant uber-altruistic angels from La-La-Land that came to Earth solely to help you at the expense of themselves. Call Superman if you need that. Doctors are human, have families to feed, have personal desires, and want financial stability just like you.

Let me reiterate; the decision whether to save a life on the street or risk losing ones job, house, livelihood, and jailtime shouldn't even exist!! But it does and some people do lose everything by taking the noble route, resulting in others taking a step back.

Please don't get personal on me, I would like it if we can have a intelligent debate. Whether my primary goal is to make money or to help others is none of your concern. I stated that motivation for entering the medical field was to help others, and I'm standing by that.

Obviously you have had a bad experience with the healthcare system. And I'm sorry for whatever happened, but I'm not the bad guy. There are good doctors and nurses out there. Don't antagonize me for telling how the world turns.




[edit on 20-7-2010 by DrChuck]

[edit on 21-7-2010 by DrChuck]

[edit on 21-7-2010 by DrChuck]

reply to post by Alaskan Man


They never killed her by in action, that's just a faulted perception made by quite a few people who lack medical training. Beyond a rescue inhaler (which she likely didn't have; she would have known to use it) there's no treatment that they could have given her.

There were some things they could have done, but it's not McGuyver medicine that you see on Royal Pains where they turn a simple everyday chemical into a rescue inhaler..

She needed a Paramedic unit to treat her and get her to the hospital for definite care.

They should have acted, but they didn't kill her by not acting.
And just to add, they probably didn't act because then they would have acted as EMTs, which they were probably told not to do.

Thank the bureaucracy for that, 30 years ago they would have been able to do a lot more.

Originally posted by Miraj
Good Samaritan laws DO NOT apply to medical professionals.

I don't think you have an understanding to the EMS world.

Apparently they do in New York, ...

New York's Good Samaratin Law

Section 3013. Immunity From Liability.
******SKIP******
4. A certified first responder, emergency medical technician or advanced emergency medical technician, whether or not he or she is acting on behalf of an ambulance service, or advanced life support first response service, who voluntarily and without the expectation of monetary compensation renders medical assistance in an emergency to a person who is unconscious, ill or injured shall not be liable for damages alleged to have been sustained by such person or for damages for the death of such person alleged to have occurred by reason of an act or omission in the rendering of such medical assistance in an emergency unless it is established that such injuries were or such death was caused by gross negligence on the part of such certified first responder, emergency medical technician or advanced emergency medical technician.

So, unless an off duty trained medical technician makes a huge mistake and actually causes the death of somebody, at least in New York, you ARE covered by New York's Good Samaratin Law and can't be sued.

[edit on 7/21/2010 by Keyhole]

reply to post by Keyhole


I see.. Forgive my ignorance. But that's NOT the way thing are in my state. We're only covered here if we are doing basic first aid, and CPR/AED.. anything else that is considered an EMS treatment or skill will not get us sued, necessarily but it will get us to lose our jobs and our certifications, and possibly any hope of working in a medical field where patient contact is required

The reason behind this is it opens Medical Directors (Who EMTs practice under their license.) up to a malpractice.

It's not just about law suits, as stated. Certain things will get us fired, but not sued.
Not many sue EMTs anyways, because we don't have any money. They go for medical direction.

I love how everyone still has emotional knee jerk reactions without knowing the facts.

1) any media reporting something could have it wrong

2) you don't know all sides of the story and circumstances


If these two were off duty, they may not have had any equipment on them. There is nothing to be done for an athsma attack. The woman could of died anyways. As the lawyer stated, they were prohibited from regulation to help.

Everyone assumes that just because they were paramedics, they could of automatically saved this woman's life. you know what they say when you "assume" things.

Originally posted by Miraj
Certain things will get us fired, but not sued.

If an off duty EMT helps somebody in New York, they should have NO fear of being fired, ...

EMTs suspended after refusing to help pregnant woman

New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg called the workers behavior inexcusable. "I don't know what kind of burn out you could have," Bloomberg said. "Try just not being a decent human being."

The New York Fire Department apparently agreed with Bloomberg. NYFD officials told the Associated Press that all of its workers take an oath to assist people in need whenever they need emergency medical care.

I would take that to mean that on or off duty they (FDNY employees) have sworn they would assist somebody that might "need emergency medical care" at anytime and anywhere, it is expected of them, on or off duty with no fear of being fired since the FDNY made them take the oath to help people "whenever" the need may arise.

I wonder how many posters here screaming for justice, are on other threads screaming that we shouldn't have to provide healthcare to all citizens, or immigrants?

I wonder?

Originally posted by nixie_nox
I wonder how many posters here screaming for justice, are on other threads screaming that we shouldn't have to provide healthcare to all citizens, or immigrants?

I wonder?

I am one of those screaming something similar, but it is more like this.

Everyone should have "access" to coverage, and the system needed revamped. As for Illegal Aliens, if they go to an ER, they SHOULD be treated and patched up, but they should also be DEPORTED shortly thereafter.

So I don't feel my stance is contradictory. Everyone deserves to be helped, treated, saved, assisted, etc. AND everyone should be doing their part to help others, while also enforcing our laws, such as immigration laws.

reply to post by Keyhole


But they still would have been. If you want to see what I mean, go to an Intro to EMS Class, or take the full thing and step into an EMT Basic Class.

Absolutes don't work in a profession that is heavily legislated, watched and where the simplest things will get you fired,certification removed, ect.

I really don't think I could explain it, as a good portion of beginning education in basic EMT classes is on these topics.

But if they had protocols (which they did) that stated against this, these guys could have been fired.

I posted this thread just before leaving town for the week and was not around computer to follow up. Just finished reading through it and was glad to see that an update was posted. Thanks for following up with this information.

Originally posted by airspoon

 

 

 

UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!! UPDATE!!!

Disgraced EMT Fought Off 3 Assailants in NYC Brawl Before Being Killed

The disgraced medic who was fatally shot in a nightclub brawl had been standing over one of his assailants and punching him when a friend of the man he was pummeling opened fire, officials said yesterday.

The news came as The Post learned early this morning that three suspects were being questioned and the battle had been captured on video.

EMT Jason Green -- who was under investigation for allegedly refusing to help a dying woman -- had tried repeatedly to walk away before he was drawn into the fight, according to cops.

But his assailants would not let it drop, and, although outnumbered, Green gained the upper hand.

The melee started shortly after the 32-year-old medic and a friend had tried to get into Greenhouse, a popular nightclub in Manhattan's SoHo neighborhood, at about 5 a.m. Sunday. Bouncers turned them away because the pal was wearing shorts, officials said.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

Apparently, it had nothing to do with the accusations against him. What goes around, comes around.

--airspoon

see what being a dumb jerk gets u

Originally posted by mf_luder
I for one am glad he's dead. It's only fair that he got his just desserts, whether or not directly related to the pregnant woman dying.

I don't think the killing is justified at all. Sure, he made a dick move but taking his life isn't bringing back the life of the woman who died.

That's primitive in my eyes. Justice, it isn't.

I find it quite ironic in a thread made to expose the actions of an EMT deemed selfish or negligent to the life of another and the expectations that are placed on EMT's as all medical professionals share these expectations upon them. What makes the life of the woman more important of the life of the EMT. i guess its true when they say we are only equal in death, as most see it a fitting "punishment". let me say this, Wishing for the death of an individual or reveling in it is a harmful act on yourself, regardless of the events leading to the death.

Do not read into my statement that I am ignoring this woman's death, far from it. I m simply trying to show how hypocritical our value for life is, when we seek the punishment of death for those who have wronged us or others we only show how truly weak we are. when we begin to value one life over another we are no better then those we condemn. It's true this responder could have performed some action, that action may have saved the woman's life, but what if it didn't?

If she still died would you feel the same about the responder. Why do you condemn the responder simply because he had training, were there not others there who could have helped but did nothing. It seems there must have been others if the EMT's were reported for not assisting. Do not judge the actions of others unless you wish to first judge yourself to standards equal to which you condemn by.

In the end we have an imbalance three lost lives with no positive effect, all we have is loss and those who cannot see the situation for what it is, a sad circumstance which no one is willing to find a solution for.