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Evolution says

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posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by hippomchippo
 





Oh, so you're just personally trolling trying to discredit everything?

If that's what that quote says to you. Then pull your head out.
Or keep on with your low brow low standard insults and I'll call attention to them even if I do have to troll to do it.


[edit on 20-7-2010 by randyvs]

No, when all you're doing is trying to falsify valid information using ridicule, that's trolling, sorry.




posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Phlynx
 


Did you catch this Phlynx? It seems you might have missed it. Not any fault of your own if you did.




What you say here is really self evident. I mean you won't catch me putting words in peoples mouth like that. Never.

Myth
On my skin. I did not mean to mock you. The humor was totally innocent.
While I obviously used what you said in my retort. That retort really is directed at no one person. This is a passionate subject that I learn more about every freekon day
. So above all I have only you guys posting to my thread to thank.
Believe me I'm the first guy that can do with out all the mocking, sarcasm,
and straight out insults. (Titen) Isn't that really, what this thread is about?
I'm simply trying to show, how it ALL can be made to sound completely absurd. Not just God. not just the Bible. Look what I did to your writing.
and I went light using the Kinison thing.
That crap dosn't feel very good dose it Myth.
That's why I ignore posts at random. And answer in the same manner. Cause no one is speaking or agreeing to what this thread is about. So who is really being ignored here?

Look at the post by Disappear. Am I wrong in what I said to that?
I wasn't laughing at you Myth.
As for your dodging the use of the word transposons. I transpose lines on to walls in my work everyday, I would have understood you. I like jumpin genes better though.


That's why I ignore posts at random. And answer in the same manner. Cause no one is speaking or agreeing to what this thread is about. So who is really being ignored here?

Just want to make sure as to why you decide to personally ban me.

[edit on 20-7-2010 by randyvs]


Yes, a thread should stay on topic, but it is on topic. You have to notice that things shift and change, you could say a thread "evolves" (You see what I did there?) into something else when the first topic has been discussed to cut up into pieces. Many of us gave you an example of a transitional species, and an example of evolution, but you never gave any scientific reason against these things that where presented to you.

I gave you this, which is a list of a transitional species.

en.wikipedia.org...

I gave you reasons why fossilization is rare, and how it is an uncommon process.

I also gave you an example of human aided evolution.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

You claim it as an adaptation, not evolution. You where partially correct, but evolution is adaptation. It is genetic adaptation. Normal adaptation is changing with your surroundings, humans adapted that they can wear clothes, which isn't genetic at all.

Your original post was torn apart, and your thread has changed to a completely new conversation. Some who where on topic where more polite than others, others where not so polite.


Let us take a look at your OP and conclude what was said.
-Evolution states that humans have a common ancestor with primates, and they have never seen it.

This was proven wrong with the list of transitional human species.

-The double wide standard.

Evolution has been backed up in this thread with many adequate facts. Many evolutionists have considered spirituality, and many are spiritual, you can't assume that all of them hold the same Christian view as you though. There are Buddhists, Muslims, and Hindus too.

-Evolutionists and belittling of creationists.

Evolutionists do this to creationists, creationists do this to evolutionists. Not all of them do it, but many do. There is a difference between discussing and belittling though, and many do not see that difference.

-If evolution were ever to be proven true it still would not come close to explaining this existence.

You are correct, because evolution has never offered to know how life forms where created (Abiogenesis), it merely offers how life forms change.

-Nothing explains existence like The living word of God. The Bible.
The Bible is no diplomat. It commands respect. On every level and on any field.

This is an opinion, and you can't prove someone right or wrong in that kind of matter, although many other religions would like to ask you your credentials for saying you are right, and all of those other beliefs are wrong.



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 04:01 PM
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Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Phlynx
 


Did you catch this Phlynx? It seems you might have missed it. Not any fault of your own if you did. Only the part after Myth applies.




What you say here is really self evident. I mean you won't catch me putting words in peoples mouth like that. Never.

Myth
On my skin. I did not mean to mock you. The humor was totally innocent.
While I obviously used what you said in my retort. That retort really is directed at no one person. This is a passionate subject that I learn more about every freekon day
. So above all I have only you guys posting to my thread to thank.
Believe me I'm the first guy that can do with out all the mocking, sarcasm,
and straight out insults. (Titen) Isn't that really, what this thread is about?
I'm simply trying to show, how it ALL can be made to sound completely absurd. Not just God. not just the Bible. Look what I did to your writing.
and I went light using the Kinison thing.
That crap dosn't feel very good dose it Myth.
That's why I ignore posts at random. And answer in the same manner. Cause no one is speaking or agreeing to what this thread is about. So who is really being ignored here?

Look at the post by Disappear. Am I wrong in what I said to that?
I wasn't laughing at you Myth.
As for your dodging the use of the word transposons. I transpose lines on to walls in my work everyday, I would have understood you. I like jumpin genes better though.


That's why I ignore posts at random. And answer in the same manner. Cause no one is speaking or agreeing to what this thread is about. So who is really being ignored here?

Just want to make sure as to why, you decide to personally ban me.

[edit on 20-7-2010 by randyvs]


Notice that I am not personally banning you, I never said I wouldn't read your threads, I just said I would refrain from posting in them, because it is getting no where, and it gets you going in circles.



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 04:11 PM
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reply to post by Phlynx
 


Phlynx Thank you you for doing that. That's pretty much what my dumb azz has been trying to bring to the suface for two pages now, the whole reason for the thread was a negative attempt to bring about positive change and I admit I failed miserably. Glad that's over. Now excuse me I have an appointment with my next disaster.


Although not a complete disaster for me. I did get some good links
and the right No. of failures always lead to success.

There is no deodorant like success. Liz Taylor

himppo? What is it I tried to falsify? Or are you just wing'in it, like the winged monkey trolls in the land of OZ?
What's a metaphor you.

[edit on 20-7-2010 by randyvs]



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 08:39 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 



Evolution says humans and primates share a common ancestor.


Um... Humans *are* primates. Evolutionary Theory says that all primates share a common ancestor.


They havn't seen this ancestor, they can't prove his existence and he wouldn't begin to explain existence even if they could find him.


Um... They have, it was discovered just last year. While not *the* common ancestor, it is related to it.


This is what I call," the double wide standard" evolutionist are holding in the belief of their theory, they keep trying to pass off as fact.


I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to suggest there... It appears that you're attempting to purposefully construct a deceitful statement. The process of evolution certainly is a fact and has been observed numerous times, the Theory of Evolution is a theory on the process behind the observation that does indeed occur in nature.


They won't for one second consider God or even any kind of spirituality.


Atheists in general don't accept God or spirituality, nor Zeus, Odin, Osiris, Thor, Horus, Isis, Freya, or the hundreds of other deities that have been worshiped throughout history. There simply is no evidence for any of it. Your statement is like bitching that Atheist refuse to accept that the universe was born from the anal drippings of a cosmic unicorn when not even you believe that to be true yourself.


For if they do they must consider God to be a possibility and treat that possibility with respect.


Let's pretend I did believe in God, I still would not give him any respect. He's a jealous pompous ass who has punished the whole of humanity for the actions brought about by a deceitful being that he himself had created an unleashed upon Adam and Eve, whom he purposefully created without knowledge of good and evil and thus without knowledge of the actions they were doing were indeed sins. He deserves about as much respect as a piece of dog crap does.


Their belittlements and mockings of creationists will always keep threads, atricles, expose's, columns, speeches and sermons coming right back in their face. Why?


I agree with you there. Not until all think and act as you do will you ever be satisfied. Your whole religion is all about intolerance of other beliefs. For it is the job of God's chosen to spread his word so that everyone can be saved by his grace! AMEN!


If evolution were ever to be proven true it still would not come close to explaining this existence.


Evolution has been observed numerous times already. The theory itself is a theory upon the process on how it occurs. Nor does the Theory on that process have anything to say about the origins of life or the universe.


Nothing explains existence like The living word of God. The Bible.
The Bible is no diplomat. It commands respect. On every level and on any field.


Take a number and get in line, there are numerous religious doctrines claiming the same.



posted on Jul, 20 2010 @ 11:50 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 
you're right dude, it was zeus the whole time. are you one of those guys that thinks god "planted" fake fossil evidence too? do you also think the planet is just 3,000 years old?



[edit on 20-7-2010 by abe froman]



posted on Jul, 21 2010 @ 12:37 AM
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reply to post by sirnex
 


Sirnex, why not save yourself some typing and have a stamp made?
2nd.



posted on Jul, 21 2010 @ 01:08 AM
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reply to post by randyvs
 





Sirnex, why not save yourself some typing and have a stamp made? 2nd.


Pot? Meet kettle.




posted on Jul, 21 2010 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by works4dhs
 


Transitional Fossils

List of Transitional Fossils

Those aren't enough for you?

What about the fact we've directly observed speciation on numerous occasions?

Science doesn't know everything and of course we will never have all the gaps in the fossil record filled entirely, we'd need to find a specimen of every species that ever lived to do that and fossilization isn't common enough to ever find all of them. The fossil evidence we do have all points toward evolution anyway and none of it points toward Creation.

But yeah some people will never be satisfied, even with mountains of evidence Kirk Cameron will still be left waiting for his Crocoduck.


[edit on 19-7-2010 by Titen-Sxull]


www.rae.org...

my experts interpret different from your experts. so what else is new?

I don't see any difference between speciation and intraspecial variation. if you had an island of purebred french poodles you'd have defacto speciation, but allowed to freely breed they'd lose their identity and become ordinary dogs after a few generations. sounds to me like minor variants isolated.



posted on Jul, 21 2010 @ 02:48 PM
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I don't see any difference between speciation and intraspecial variation. if you had an island of purebred french poodles you'd have defacto speciation, but allowed to freely breed they'd lose their identity and become ordinary dogs after a few generations. sounds to me like minor variants isolated.
reply to post by works4dhs
 


Now I ask you. How am I supposed to view this, what you call evidence that lives up to your" scientific law"? You point to some highly inadequate fossil record. A record That definetly uses monkey bones in
what looks like a desperate attempt at filling the gapeing holes in that record. So who knows what other fossils are involved? Don't even pretend that you can tell me either. That's proof to you? As I said all along you are showing me adaptations or slight variations.

Titen you have no evidence of evolution. As per your own scientific law.
God wants to say something to you right now.


Romans 1:20 – For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse.

God says the evidence for his handiwork is irrefutable.
Yet you find a way to refute. You need to use your noggin and realise
who you are up against my man. You seem not to realise God has provided pitfalls for people who do not want to believe. He makes that possible for them. I truly believe you and people like you, are being set up.

Don't just read the above passage analyse it, do your scientific thing with the introduced evidence. See what you come up with then? Just the one passage put to a petri dish. You may be surprised.
I 'm sorry, no . I'm not even sorry. Evolution and the Bible can not live
in the same universe together.
I have always said this and I always will.
Put my screen name to it.

Randyvs
Your evidence is inconclusive at best. Not just to me either.

[edit on 21-7-2010 by randyvs]



posted on Jul, 21 2010 @ 06:16 PM
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There is no god
It's all a bunch of people who are uncomfortable not knowing everything, so they fill the gaps of knowledge with fairy tales. They then repeat those fairy tales (the church obv helps because they get $$$) until they believe it so much, that some people imagine hearing voices and God talking to them...when in reality, it's just their subconscious wanting a personal relationship with that super-being to cope with the difficulties of life.

If those fairy tales make you happy, by all means. But coming here, and attacking evolution for which we have a TON of supporting evidence while believing in a fictional god for whom we have NO (nada, zip, not a drop of) evidence is beyond hypocritical.

If you can't cope with reality and making things up makes you happy, but all means, live your life around that fairy tales. You have the RIGHT to be happy. But personally, I prefer realism and I'm humble enough to admit I don't have all the answers...that doesn't mean I'll make stuff up though like all the religions.



posted on Jul, 21 2010 @ 08:14 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 




You point to some highly inadequate fossil record


You point to a book that says human beings were created fully formed via a divine beings incantation over a pile of dirt he had lumped together.

Even IF the fossil record were inadequate to prove evolution, and it is MORE than adequate, your myth would be no more valid than the Roman, Greek, Aboriginal, Norse, Native American, Aztec, Hindu (etc) accounts of creation. They are all baseless myths written by ancients who could not have known any better. But YOU Randy could know better if you opened your eyes.



God says the evidence for his handiwork is irrefutable.


When? In the Bible? You are aware the Bible was penned entirely by human beings right?

I'm afraid the person putting words in the mouth of God in the verse you posted is wrong but he couldn't have known that all those years ago before the bulk of evidence for Evolution and things like the Big Bang were found.

Sorry but ancient religious texts do not trump objectively verifiable evidence that is continuously being updated.



Evolution and the Bible can not live in the same universe together.


It is percisely this view that makes Creationists the lowest possible common demoninator of theists everywhere. The fact that they worship a book instead of looking at the evidence of what is evidently true in "God's" Universe. A book of ancient myth and superstition has historical value and its fun to read but that hardly translates into truth.

By the way there are millions of theists around the world who accept Evolution and incorporate it into their belief system, replacing myth with objectively verified evidence.



Not just to me either.


Oh I know, there tons of little indoctrinated Creationists running around spreading ignorance. Guess what Randy - I used to be one. Years ago, when I was still in my teens, I defended Creationism and I got pwned HARD every time. At least I had the intellectual honesty to come to my senses when presented with the evidence.



Titen you have no evidence of evolution


Type Evolution into the wikipedia search bar and read on.

A few other search terms for Google or Wikipedia:

Gene Duplication
Genetic Drift
Frame Shift Mutation
Observed Speciation
Transitional Fossils
Tibetans Genes High Altitude
Beneficial Mutations

And on
And on
And on

But it doesn't matter because you won't accept any of them, you haven't accepted the mountains of evidence already linked to you in this thread.

Here's a recent scientific paper I was reading: Link



posted on Jul, 21 2010 @ 08:43 PM
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reply to post by MrXYZ
 





If you can't cope with reality and making things up makes you happy, but all means, live your life around that fairy tales. You have the RIGHT to be happy. But personally, I prefer realism and I'm humble enough to admit I don't have all the answers...that doesn't mean I'll make stuff up though like all the religions.


Your very childish and negative comments, against creationism, cast you in that very same darkness. While I am understanding, to your complete confusion, as to the very nature of OUR reality. While also, over looking your understatement, as to having all the answers.

You still, have the wrong idea, about what is really under attack here friend.
Which I promise you, is the very darkness, you have just demonstrated.
Not so much evolution itself.
You display a willingness to embrace ignorance, every time you say," God does not exist". You lead with comments like that and want to be taken seriously?
It really dosn't work that way at all pard. Try again.

[edit on 21-7-2010 by randyvs]



posted on Jul, 21 2010 @ 09:01 PM
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reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 


Hey, if you do not mind, I will add to your post a bit. As Randy stated before with the bible being infallible. I have done a lot of research into many different religious and even experienced first hand other religious ceremonies and what have you. But the bulk of my knowledge is in the Bible. The bible has so many different interpretations in it. That it is difficult to find which ones are true. Which is why so many people are creating there own interpretations from the actual texts themselves; rather then receiving interpretations of some insane people/preachers. Because in actuality the bible supports reincarnation, incarnation, alternate realities and a plethora of other things. When you view the book out of the context that it was written for, that is indoctrination. The bible is in essence a metaphysical book of wonders. Not a physical book of the earthly realm. So many people get lost in this interpretation, because the book focuses on the earthly plane. But it states in the book itself that God is writing through the hands of humans. That should tell you that the earthly laws do not apply to the book. The book is a metaphysical book of wonders that is great for helping people to peace and a better understanding of the fight between good and evil with in. But it is not a book that should be taken literally. It is impossible to take it literally, because we would have people casting themselves into the sea with boulders around there necks. If you take the metaphysical aspect of the bible and apply it to today's science there are many surprising parallels.

Since the bible supports reincarnation and incarnation we can see that once we die. Our atoms/subatomic particles will not be destroyed. They will be in a state of shock and search for stability, once again, that they will essentially form into another being. Matter can not be created nor destroyed. So where does it go? It does not leave, rather it reforms itself. We can see this time and time again in the study of sub atomic particles. They will rearrange themselves to be stable with ever present conditions and they can choose random choices as to how they will seek this stability. I could go on and on, but that will defeat the point. The point is that the bible is not a literal book and should NOT be looked at as such, because logically it does not make sense. As with all books they have many interpretations and many facts in the bible. But the facts are more on the metaphysical side; rather than the natural world.

Another thing the bible is not infallible and this is explained in the contexts of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John who all have some of the same stories, but MANY different interpretations and many different recounts of what happened. This is a problem. Did Judas fall off a cliff? Or Was it suicide? Did the crow bark twice or once?. For instance, before we go into Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, let us look at destiny and free will. This should be the first clue that the bible is a metaphysical book, because in the first book of Moses, Genesis: God allowed Adam and Eve to make a choice. But was that choice really a choice? If Adam did not sin Jesus would not have walked the earth and if God is omnipotent then he knew the route that Adam and Eve would take. So therefore there was NO possibility of change. Also in many places it says that God led his people through the land of the Philistines, when the land of Philistines was not even around at that time. And the foundations of the earth so the earth does not move. We obvious know that the earth moves, so I am not sure what foundation it is on. The earth moves everyday.

Again I could keep going, but I think the point would be missed. With everything that we know and how everything works. I believe that the bible, in my interpretation, is a book of metaphysical wonders that have points valid today with my interpretation that the bible supports Reincarnation, incarnation, destiny, evolution, and much much more. The evidence is there for me, but unfortunately with creationism. Taking the bible literally really puts a cap on what you can believe, when it is meant to interpreted in very different aspects with the same underlying message: Treat you neighbor as yourself, have faith in humanity and live. Because why would God give us life if we could not use it to live?

Personally I follow this mantra: Seldom affirm, always question and always imagine.



posted on Jul, 21 2010 @ 09:03 PM
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reply to post by TITEN
 

You are right about the fact, that I don't check out all the links provided.
Some, I don't even have to click on, because it is obvious where they all lead. Absolutly nowhere. I simply refuse, to follow anyone, who is going
nowhere.




Oh I know, there tons of little indoctrinated Creationists running around spreading ignorance. Guess what Randy - I used to be one. Years ago, when I was still in my teens, I defended Creationism and I got pwned HARD every time. At least I had the intellectual honesty to come to my senses when presented with the evidence.


You gave up your relationship, with the life giving supreme being, Father in heaven, and his bright shinning redeemer son, because you were pwned by your peers hard? Wow.

You certainly have opened my eyes.

Myth
Hi Hey, I hope you arn't still peaved with me. I don't know that you saw my post that fell short of an apology. I did however give you respect. I might
add at the risk of sounding akin to a tailwagger. It is well earned indeed.
I would never intentionally direspect anyone who has never stooped so low.
You have provided much to ponder here. Thank you Myth, as I set about doing that now.


Myth
I would appreciate hearing more of this, what I surmise to be your thoughts as they evolve or have evolved. Please continue or provide a link if you will? I find this relative in a big way. Thanks

I wonder if you know some of my beliefs about the Bible and why it is such a passionate subject for me? I know I have said it a number of times on this site and to Titen most definetly. If he recalls?
It should be obvious I don't subscribe to any organised religion.

At the same time would never deny Christiandom.


[edit on 21-7-2010 by randyvs]

[edit on 21-7-2010 by randyvs]



posted on Jul, 21 2010 @ 10:18 PM
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reply to post by randyvs
 


You just admitted you aren't even open to looking at the evidence and considering it. You just admitted to being closed minded to the actual empirical evidence for Evolution. Why would you even post this thread? Unless you think people are gullible enough to accept your word for it that Evolution isn't worthwhile. Either that or you have some sort of fetish for having the evidence brought out and paraded before you and then rejecting it. Does that strengthen your faith Randy, to reject reality?



You gave up your relationship, with the life giving supreme being, Father in heaven, and his bright shinning redeemer son, because you were pwned by your peers hard? Wow.


The reason I lost my faith is far more complex than that, if you want a full story send me a U2U. After I stopped being a Creationist I remained a believer in Christ and God for a while. So no it wasn't Evolution that made me become an Atheist (that had a lot more to do with reading the Bible a lot) if that's what you are implying.

Don't worry Randy, I still have hope that you will one day be more open minded to the evidence. I was pretty stubborn in my days as a Creationist. That's how indoctrination and blind faith work though, they close your mind completely to the world around you and use myth and superstition as a replacement for actual investigation and evidence.



posted on Jul, 21 2010 @ 10:27 PM
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reply to post by TheMythLives
 





That should tell you that the earthly laws do not apply to the book.


I'm not sure what you mean Myth.

I don't think the Bible claims that it doesn't mean what it's saying literally, aside from, perhaps, the parables of Jesus. There are parts that are obviously metaphor/allegory but parts that are not meant to be taken as such. It becomes hard to tell which parts are metaphor and which are not which leads to varying interpretations and shades of gray.

But to claim that Earthly laws do not apply, I'm not sure what you mean. The God of the Bible would be the creator of Earthly laws, so why would he have Earthly men write an earthly book that violates them? And what laws do you mean? I assume you do not mean the laws of logic. To suggest that the Bible is allowed to violate the laws of logic AND still remain true is fallacious.



If you take the metaphysical aspect of the bible and apply it to today's science there are many surprising parallels.


That could be done with almost any set of myths if we use our imaginations enough.

I'd rather not get into a debate about the Bible in this thread, come and see my thread about the Bible: Man's book or God's Word (its up to 1000 posts I think) if you'd like to discuss it further or shoot me a U2U.



Personally I follow this mantra: Seldom affirm, always question and always imagine.


I can't really argue with that. Healthy skepticism with an open mind toward evidence always is the best way to go about things



posted on Jul, 21 2010 @ 10:39 PM
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reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 


I think I may have been dozing off there..lol.. Anyway, what I meant was that the bible and earthly laws do no mix. It is not a book about how the earth works or why it is here, but rather it is a book about spiritualism. I can see how you were confused, because I just read my post again and did a Homer Simpson DOH!.. And the same still holds today, or at least it should. It is logically and rationally impossible. However, it is an interesting metaphysical book in the sense that it is interesting FRINGE science. With it supporting reincarnation, incarnation, evolution and the likes. And I will shoot you a u2u and head over to your thread where we can discuss this further.

I hope I explained myself better here. It is late and I am not firing on all my neurons and my synapses are shot.... So if I did not explain it well enough again just kick me.



posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 12:58 PM
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reply to post by TheMythLives
 


Hey! (nudge the shoulder) No reply to me?



Titen
I'll make you a proposition Titen, now that I understand you a little better.
I take you more serious from now on. You try to get a few more laughs
at of life. Maybe you should head me off right now with that idea. I just had the thought for a new thread.
How can evolution
explain laughter?




[edit on 22-7-2010 by randyvs]

[edit on 22-7-2010 by randyvs]



posted on Jul, 22 2010 @ 01:45 PM
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I'd like to contribute my beliefs on evolution. I am an evolutionist I think we all evolved from a common ancestor, Amino acids which began to mutate and become DNA which became a cell which mutated and a tone of other really complicated things happened. Billions of years later life was born.

Being an evolutionist doesn't mean I think I'm related to a cat or a monkey.. Evolution took millions of years its like saying oh I can't marry that man his mother's father's cousin is related to my father's side of the family from 1650's. The genetic variance is no where near being closely related.

Also what god has to do with evolution is absurd. Maybe there is a higher power that helped but if we can't agree on a god/goddess/gods, how can we assume which god created or if one did? So I think you can rule out any evidence from the Bible seeing as not everyone believes in your little book of "god".

Xiamara



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