Revelation; The Beast-great leader and antichrist

reply to post by DISRAELI


here are some more on same theme-

these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.-2Pet2.12

At that time the son born in the ordinary way persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now-Gal4.29

I know that my Redeemer lives,
and that in the end he will stand upon the earth.
And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet in my flesh I will see God;
I myself will see him
with my own eyes—I, and not another.-Job19.25

For it will come upon all those who live on the face of the whole earth.-Luke21.35

For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh-Phil3.3

For I could wish that I myself were cursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, those of my own race-Rom9.3

Here there is no Greek or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all-Col3.11

The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them.-Is11.6

When he saw Jesus passing by, he said, "Look, the Lamb of God!"-John1.36

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!-2Cor5.17

by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace-Eph2.15

reply to post by SkyLiner


makes me think of this one and like the way NLT say's it -

that question came up only because of some so-called Christians there—false ones, really—who were secretly brought in. They sneaked in to spy on us and take away the freedom we have in Christ Jesus. They wanted to enslave us and force us to follow their Jewish regulations. But we refused to give in to them for a single moment. We wanted to preserve the truth of the gospel message for you.-Gal2.3

or this in Galatians 4-

Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? 22For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.
24These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27For it is written

reply to post by DISRAELI


You mentioned that the second beast causes the world the worship the image of the first beast.

Whenever I read that particular scripture, another possibility comes to mind. On the Bohemian Grove video they are worshipping an owl (molech?) and a voice comes out of it, supposedly Walter Concrites voice in the past. But nonetheless the image is speaking. I think with todays technology it is very possible that a physical image could be made with a literal voice coming from it.

I'm just throwing that out there as a possibility too.

reply to post by mazzroth

As far as the word "Beast" is concerned, I should point out thst it's being borrowed from the vision of Daniel ch7, where Daniel sees four beasts coming up out of the sea. So the first "Beast" here in ch13 comes up out of the sea in the same way. Then the second "Beast" is so-called in imitation of the first.

Having said that, I'm inclined to agree with you about the very real possibility of the revival of "Earth-religion" as part of the world-religion under the Beast. Perhaps part of popular religion, as distinct from official religion. Just as, in the time of the Roman Empire, Christianity faced the hostility of popular religion as well as the hostility of official religion.

Originally posted by No King but Jesus

whoever sacrifices a bull is like one who kills a man, and whoever offers a lamb, like one who breaks a dog's neck;

Yes, I too agree with Mazzroth about the possibilty of "Earth-religion" reviving.
It's not just about the ending of sacrifice, but about the rejection of "nature-worship".

reply to post by DISRAELI


appears it should have ended two Grand ago-

What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions UNTIL the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator.-Gal3.19

The Bull or Taurus was Worshiped by the Judean Horde in the Sianai peninsular when Moses took the commandments and its obvious that Animal Worship was prevalent in the period predating Christianity.

To return to Beast Worship or to Worship the Golden Bull would be seen as a massive step backward to early Judaic Christians so I have no doubt they have warned us of this potential fate in their writings.

Originally posted by nlouise
I think with todays technology it is very possible that a physical image could be made with a literal voice coming from it.

Sorry, I did not realise this post was there until I was checking back.
It was disguised by a bit of simultaneous posting, I think.
Yes, it might well be possible for something like this to be done with modern technology.
It just suits the way my mind works, to suggest how the prediction might be fulfilled in a more "natural" way, without the need for trickery or technology.

Originally posted by mazzroth
its obvious that Animal Worship was prevalent in the period predating Christianity.

Yes, indeed, but here's another angle.
Since one of my interests is the study of history, I like to consider how it would be possible to get to a predicted situation from the present situation.

As you say, animal worship was prevalent. But in those days it seemed perfectly natural to express animal worship by killing animals. If you had a bull deity, you would sacrifice a bull. But we now live in a world which is increasingly dominated by the "animal rights" concept, which is decisively against the killing of animals. How easy would it be to overcome the current distaste for animal killing in order to restore a general practice of animal sacrifice? How would we get from here to there?

All right, how about this as a compromise answer? You can see in the "Beast" a reference to a return to "animal worship". Perhaps you are right. But perhaps it is a kind of animal worship which is expressed in a different way- not by sacrificing them, but by protecting them (even if this might be at the expense of human interests).

But perhaps it is a kind of animal worship which is expressed in a different way- not by sacrificing them, but by protecting them

like you mentioned the first beast is the world state and the second beast is its leader, and you used Hitler as an example

i'd like to add that Cain built the first city called Enoch and Cain was keeper of the fields, offering to God fruits and vegetables.

Hitler also was vegetarian

the mark of the beast undoubtedly is the same mark God put on Cain.

the mark God put on Cain was for his protection, 'lest any man finding him should slay him'. similarily the beasts will kill anyone who refuses the mark of the beast, anyone who refuses to conform to the ways of the world that man created.

Originally posted by iamnot
i'd like to add that Cain built the first city called Enoch and Cain was keeper of the fields, offering to God fruits and vegetables.
Hitler also was vegetarian

the mark of the beast undoubtedly is the same mark God put on Cain.

Thank you for that contribution.
I'm not a vegetarian, so I can live with the fact that you're linking vegetarians with evil people.
Vegetarianism as part of the religion of the Beast... yes, I think I might want to come back to that thought later.

My thoughts on the Mark itself are being put together at the moment.

Originally posted by DISRAELI

Originally posted by iamnot
i'd like to add that Cain built the first city called Enoch and Cain was keeper of the fields, offering to God fruits and vegetables.
Hitler also was vegetarian

the mark of the beast undoubtedly is the same mark God put on Cain.

Thank you for that contribution.
I'm not a vegetarian, so I can live with the fact that you're linking vegetarians with evil people.
Vegetarianism as part of the religion of the Beast... yes, I think I might want to come back to that thought later.

My thoughts on the Mark itself are being put together at the moment.

Let's not go bashing people who do not eat creatures with families and feelings in defense of Christianity. Just don't go there. We are misreading - or the writings are wrong. You don't have to trust me - but I certainly wish you would. Prioritize your laws people. Start with law one, when you can easily can follow it move on to law two. Love God with all your heart, Love your brother as yourself.
When these first two are expertly executed...move on to your food choices.

Are you Seth or Cain?




[edit on 28-7-2010 by rusethorcain]

Originally posted by rusethorcain
Let's not go bashing people who do not eat creatures with families and feelings in defense of Christianity. Just don't go there.

My comments were partly tongue-in-cheek.
But they were also partly a reaction to the hostile attitude occasionally expressed by vegetarians and other animal-rights people towards us carnivores.
If vegetarians are willing to go with the principle of "not criticising people for their food-choices", then I'm happy to call a truce on that basis.

we are not saying that vegetarians in general are bad.

one of the prophecies is that the antichrist will insist that people refrain from eating meats.

1 Timothy 4:3
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth

we're in the topic of identifying the beast and antichrist and one of his characteristics is that he will command to abstain from meats.

Originally posted by iamnot

we're in the topic of identifying the beast and antichrist and one of his characteristics is that he will command to abstain from meats.

I can also see how that might develop historically.
From where the world is now, I can easily see the possibility that the dominant non-Christian religion would be more "nature" orientated, perhaps developing the tendancy to worship "Gaia". I can imagine the world-religion of the Beast incorporating that. And hence, perhaps, what you mention.

Here is a possibility, hear me out......suppose the 3rd temple of Jerusalem has already been built and its called "The Dome of the Rock" and the Beast System is in reference to Islam and how it is cruel condoning of events such as "Stonings" and limb removal for crimes it deems fit.

This so called religion ( Its really a control grid ) hates Christianity with a passion and it could be easily said they are "against" ( anti ) it. You only have to look what the Muslims did to the Christians in Aceh a few years back and other African nations to see their religion is of violence and the edict of "convert or kill" is not one of compassion or peace.

Therefore I postulate that all this bible talk of a coming Beast is too late because its already here and has been so for 1338 years, after the building of the Mosque on the Temple Mount.

Originally posted by mazzroth
Here is a possibility, hear me out......suppose the 3rd temple of Jerusalem has already been built and its called "The Dome of the Rock" and ...

No, the 3rd temple is given specific measurements/design to be built, so the Dome won't work. However, in those specs part of courtyard for the Temple is "given over to the Gentiles". Acknowledging that it won't be an exact replica of a prior Temple.

I'm thinking the part of "The Rock" is in the way of that missing part of the Temple.

reply to post by hootieowl

I've got a different angle.
I think all the current talk about "building the third temple" is ignoring the significance of 1 Corinthians ch3 v16;
"Do you not know that you are God's temple, and that God's spirit dwells in you?"
That one needs to be pondered.
(Incidentally this is "you" in the plural, the community. The reference to the individual body is later in the letter)






[edit on 1-8-2010 by DISRAELI]

Originally posted by mazzroth
Here is a possibility, hear me out......suppose the 3rd temple of Jerusalem has already been built and its called "The Dome of the Rock" and the Beast System is in reference to Islam [...].

Therefore I postulate that all this bible talk of a coming Beast is too late because its already here and has been so for 1338 years, after the building of the Mosque on the Temple Mount.

Quite So... * for you...

following your line of thought 2007 was the years that represented the 1,335 'days' in scripture...
so therefore, the 'beast'/little horn/ despicable person ~shall be revealed~ in around the 6th lunar month in 2011

====THAT IS TRUE, if the Dome was built in the year you suggest ====

wikipedia says:

The Dome of the Rock was erected between 689 and 691 CE. The names of the two engineers in charge of the project are given as: Yazid Ibn Salam from Jerusalem and Raja Ibn Haywah from Baysan. Umayyad Caliph Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan who initiated construction of the Dome, hoped that it would “house the Muslims from cold and heat”[2] and intended the building to serve as a shrine for pilgrims and not as a mosque for public worship.[3]

ergo 689CE plus 1,335 years = 2024CE either commences the 7 year tribulation
or is the time when the beast-man is Revealed








[edit on 1-8-2010 by St Udio]

reply to post by St Udio

I don't go in for date calculations much myself.
But Daniel does say about the 1335 days;
"Blessed is he who waits and comes to them".
So it sounds to me as though they ought to represent the final end of troubles, not the beginning of more troubles.