Everyday I check the News I SEE THE DEATH OF OCCUPIERS

Originally posted by wcitizen
It also keeps alive the fear of 'fictional' terrorists (ie. people paid by the US government to kill their own civilians).......

Originally posted by wcitizen
Especially when, according to something I read a while ago, each soldier's life is insured by the government for $1million.

Unfortunately, that's not true. The most SGLI insures troops for is $400,000, but that's if you elect to take it all. If you do, you pay higher premiums (like any civilian insurance policy).

What do both sides have in common? They both want to kill the murders so they can be left alone. (Everything's going according to plan)

IF you really want to help start with yourself. Get rid of the us vs them mentality. They are not "my" people they are "our" people, that's your ego talking. You brought up propaganda but at the same time have no problem spreading the division created by that "propaganda". It's only propaganda when it's from the other side, right? When it comes to division between East and West on ATS you always seem to be there spreading understanding and acceptance...

You know what I'm tired of seeing everyday? Pointless threads on the main page of ATS. Don't click it, I know. Just when a thread appears in top four spots I have this crazy notion that it's of some importance. Hopefully lots of people will star/flag your thread and respond that they agree.

I support the troops but i don't support the war, i say bring home all are men and women because we have enough problems with things in our own country to worry about other ones.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by oozyism

 

Nope. I get what you are talking about. However, most oil goes to China from our conquests. My own theory is that we are feeding the dragon for as long as we can until we have a means to not need oil. It's basically debt payment in the form of stealing resources for the one you owe debt to. It's the only logical reason China still buys our debt. All in all, however, those nations end up better a generation from now. Believe me, I do not believe this is the way. Rule by example, not force. For them, the ends justify the means. In the end they will be more civilized and better off. I just cry for the death that is payed to achieve it.

Yeah you are feeding China, but China has the right to be fed by you, because they payed for all your debt.

If you owe in people then go to steal to pay that dept, doesn't make it right. It makes it ever more wrong.

Even if you are feeding China, you are still reaping the rewards of the evil sins committed by the empire, hence you are paying your debt by stealing other people's resources, terrorism, murder etc.

If all of that happened in America, I bet you would revolt also, just like in Afghanistan. Afghans are at the forefront of the evil sins, which you are rewarding from.

At least, you like others don't deny it, and turn a blind eye, as long as you can live a comfortable life.

reply to post by oozyism


I don't exactly turn a blind eye. I just don't see how anyone can do anything. That's why I intend to be very close and part of the US government in due time, so that I may help them learn the error of their ways and fix it. There are those who hasten to battle and run into machine guns, and there are those whom talk one on one with those on the guns, talking them to not shoot them. I am the later. As a Christian I don't exactly favor revolution. I favor integration, and change. Like the mitochondria of eons ago, I will enter the cell and change its chemistry.

Until then, what can I say? Is it better to do what we are doing, or not and have 200 million Chinese soldiers hungry for resources come storming down from the Himalayans?

In the end, when all you have left are two evils, you still have to weigh them against each other and chose the least evil. The current strategy is far less destructive than a Chinese occupation of the middle east for resources.

We all have a place in this world. Mine is of peaceful change, not violent revolution.

Shame to America and the occupiers, a big nation that send troop to another afterwar country because the new country is not "in line", more like a bully than a hero.

If US/allies really sincere helping, then go to North Korea and help the people there from their own goverment, heck the evil goverment actually acknowledge they have nuclear. What else are you waiting for ?

The USA goverment chicken out?

Fine, then go to zimbabwe, they have diamonds, a loaf of bread worth few trillions there. Pretty easy to conquer, Make yourself the diamond robber now.

If north korean become like afghanistan, I think the world dont really mind about it, the people DO need help, but attacking a country trying to stand up after war like Afghanistan doesnt really sound good for world heroism at all.

Sonny, I lose a limb helping europe from the Germans Nazi
Cool grandpa, its ok you done good things

Son, I lose a limb helping Afghanistan from their government.
Arent they just afterwar, they have goverment already dad ?
Theyre building it son
Why you attack it then. dad ?
................because (varying lame excuse for every soldier follows)

I'm sorry fellow Americans, but our government done something wrong, whats done is done, we should not let it continue.

Conspiracy Sidetrack: Is this the reason the UFO dont land and say "we come in peace" ?



[edit on 18-7-2010 by RainCloud]

reply to post by Gorman91


My point is, that without justice, peace can't be achieve, that is why justice needs to be taken as a priority when trying to achieve peace.

To give you an example, is murder, when you murder someone's son, you can't achieve peace when there is no justice.

reply to post by righteyered


As a famous movie character said
"Owie."
Stop the madness, stop the war.
How many people have written that they will stop driving, ride a bicycle, stop using plastic, to stop the war? I know i am not the only one willing
to make a life change for this. The drive to keep on with war is coming
from the top, IMO, not from us.

the big problem on these wars is that the resistance needs to fight back simply because the foreign guys are killing and raping their families ... so, its all about revenge

it will never end

violence wont solve any problem in this case

reply to post by oozyism


Well to change your question, can the son of the murderer have peace with the victim's family?

My view is that the US is not capable of justice anymore. It has done too far down. So whatever comes out of its ashes, I will be part of and do my very best to make it New Republic, not responsible for the sins of the father.

reply to post by oozyism
You are asking why. I think mobiusmale answered quite accurately.

Originally posted by mobiusmale

1) You started a war that you lost.
. . .
You came and killed our citizens. So, we came and kicked your primitive behinds. Just let us do our (nowadays) liberal thing, and pay to rebuild your country into a 21st century player, and let us go back home.

I was under the impression that you live in New Zealand, I could be mistaken. The simple fact that you ask the question marks you as the perpetrator of 9/11 in some peoples minds. Notice "You came and killed."

The answer is simple then: Americans saw buildings fall with many deaths resulting, enough of them wanted to kill, kill, kill. Who to kill was narrowed down to the simple formula, "Either you're with us, or you're with the terrorists." To ask questions is to attack and kill Americans. Therefore you did it yourself personally.

The logic seems flawed though, for if you flew one of the planes you couldn't have started the thread.

So the Americans and NATO allies will continue to kill until either:

1) People quit questioning their motives
2) They succeed in killing all those not "with them"
or
3) They kill their way into national bankruptcy and complete economic collapse.

Of these choices, 3) seems most likely.

"I support the troops not the war"

What kind of Orwellian mental backflips are you trying to make me do here?

You want to support the troops? Those thousands of doe eyed young boys who get their bits blown off?

GET THEM HOME dammit. By supporting their involvement in the war, IN ANY WAY, you are partaking of their burnt and broken flesh.

There is no middle way here, either you offer the children of your community to their death dances, or you become their enemy too. Don't you get it people?

reply to post by pthena

You came and killed our citizens. So, we came and kicked your primitive behinds. Just let us do our (nowadays) liberal thing, and pay to rebuild your country into a 21st century player, and let us go back home.

That is not an answer, it is pretty obvious, that number1, the Afghan government had nothing to do with the 9/11, no one can deny that.

number 2. non of the hijackers were Afghans, infact they were raised in Western societies, that being said, America should have bombed some Western societies, and some Arab societies.

number 3. The Afghan government agreed to hand over Osama bin Laden if evidence was provided:

The Taleban administration in Afghanistan negotiated with the American embassy in Islamabad in 2001 to hand over Osama bin Laden to a specially appointed court, but suggestions of using a neutral third country to try the suspected terrorist were rejected by the USA, according to a new book by the former Taleban Ambassador to Pakistan.

Detailing the options which were explored, Abdul Salam Zaeef claimed that even using the court at The Hague was unacceptable to the Americans who never handed over any evidence of wrongdoing to the authorities in the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.

…If every country were to hand over any person deemed a criminal by America, then America would de facto control the world. This would in turn threaten the independence and sovereignty of all countries.

reply to post by oozyism
I think you mis-read my response, there could be some sarcasm.
I am aware of Afghanistan's offer to try Osama in Afghan court, if Americans produced any evidence. "You Americans aren't the only country with courts."



[edit on 19-7-2010 by pthena]

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by oozyism

 

Well to change your question, can the son of the murderer have peace with the victim's family?

Yes, he can. justice doesn't mean revenge. Revenge doesn't mean justice.

Think about it, some people kill the family member of the murderer, that is not justice, that is revenge.

There are more to it than that. Why do justice departments work for so long to find a killer? Sometimes it take years and years and years to find one killer, what is the point of that you suppose?

My view is that the US is not capable of justice anymore. It has done too far down. So whatever comes out of its ashes, I will be part of and do my very best to make it New Republic, not responsible for the sins of the father.

If you suppress justice, and remove accountability, how can the future generations change>? The point is, if we don't hold anyone accountable, it will become a culture, and it seems it has already turned in to culture, this isn't something new, it didn't start from 9/11, it has been this way for a long time now, and since no one has been held accountable, I suspect it has turned in to a culture. Think> you are likely to follow the footsteps of your forefathers, unless you are disciplined, or shown the truth.

Don't you think it will continue, and nothing will change, because no one has been punished for their crimes?

Heck why do we have punishments for crimes? It is not for revenge, it is for justice, and we set up stricter punishments for more inhumane crimes, why? Not because of revenge, but because we don't want others alike to not even think of doing that crime, and to know that this will happen to them if they do.



[edit on 19-7-2010 by oozyism]

Latest life, lost:

KABUL, Afghanistan—A U.S. service member was killed Monday by a bomb blast in southern Afghanistan, NATO said.

Who will justify this for me?

reply to post by oozyism


I'm utterly disgusted by our occupation of two sovereign nations.
I just can't get my head around how the 'public' can't see it.
It a sad loss of life for all concerned, but we are the invaders, we are the occupiers wouldn't you defend your land, your country if was being invaded - by any means necessary?
Bring them all home....even after they couldn't find the madeup WMDs TPTB still tried to pin '9/11 - the inside job' on Bin-Laden etc to justif an invasion...and INVASION.

reply to post by oozyism


warnewstoday.blogspot.com...

I wouldn't recommend it, really. Makes for a rather bleak outlook to your day. But these guys been recording and classifying deaths both occupier and freedom fighter in mostly iraq, but afganistan and the whole region for several years now.

reply to post by oozyism


What can I say? I was in the army for three years, honorable discharge, out for five, then I came back in because I realized that soldiering is what im good at.

You see, we the soldiers....We are not the head, nor the heart, nor the hand that wields the sword. We are the sword set to purpose. First and foremost my allegiance is to the constitution. However, when the hand that wields me (the government) sets me to a purpose that is not just; it is up to the PEOPLE (the head) to revoke this action...

Sadly, when you acquiesce your power, you agree with these actions by remaining silent.
The head must control the hand, the dog must wag the tail; not let the tail "wag the dog".

one issue i dont see being addressed is the fact that the countries us americans are being accused of invading have the worst civil liberties and well blatant disregard for ethics.

unfortunatly in this situation some derangment occured and for some reason a society that spawns hate and disgusting acts on woman and children decided that this was on us remember america is still the number one place that people come to to find a better life for themselves and family.

we dont stone people for judicial purposes we dont mutilate little girls for some customary social concept?

our people can walk our streets with rights such as life liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

theres no taliban suni nightmare waiting in a dark corner to destroy familys and instill fear.??

im just not sure what if anything is positive from afganistan or iraq these are societys with barbaric human policys at best and have now entered the world theatre and will have to play with the big boys.

Americans are not the small percent our government represents rather WE are a society of people who have all nationalitys and customs wich are legal and can be practiced freely unlike in some cases more then their countries of origin...