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Evolutionist I can prove to you that what you believe (evolution) is based on illogical reasoning, i

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posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 12:53 AM
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How does believing in evolution disprove a creator??

Not that I believe in one or not...just curious.

Oh wait, nevermind. This is just another stereotypical thread guided towards people with incomplete beliefs, made from someone with such a belief themselves.




posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 12:57 AM
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what was this perfect god afraid of here?

22. And the Lord our God said unto us: "Behold, they are one people, and (this) they begin to do, and now nothing will be withholden from them. Go to, let us go down and confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech, 1 and they may be dispersed into cities and nations, and one purpose will no longer abide with them till the day of judgment." 23. And the Lord descended, and we descended with Him to see the city and the tower which the children of men had built. 24. And He confounded their language, and they no longer understood one another's speech, and they ceased then to build the city and the tower. 25. For this reason the whole land of Shinar is called Babel, because the Lord did there confound all the language of the children of men, and from thence they were dispersed 2 into their cities, each according to his language and his nation.

god is an alien otherwise an all loving god would have been astounded that man came together as one...but no god is actually an alien who was afraid to lose power!!!



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 01:07 AM
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reply to post by edmc^2
 


Well you caught a glipse of the light. A god created by a god? It even by your own logic is possible......

the red pill or the blue pill?

*maniacal laughter*

[edit on 18-7-2010 by Wertdagf]



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 01:12 AM
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Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander
reply to post by edmc^2
 


So, let me get this right. Because of the perfection of the human form, (and other things) you believe in an intelligent creator? Basically you are saying that all the working things you see around you, eyes, bodies, etc., show that some intelligence was involved? It could not have just been random?

And if that is your argument, how do you explain these?







Does God just have "unintelligent" days sometimes?


Very sad picture - reminds me of the elephant man - a mutation of the genes. But what i said was the human body is complex not perfect. In fact due to imperfection (sin) man deterioted and still deterioting.

But all of this will gone when God finally fulfill his promises:

(Isa 33:24) “And no resident will say: “I am sick.” The people that are dwelling in [the land] will be those pardoned for their error.”

So no God is not responsible of mans fall - for man made a choice to reject God and substituted him with another god - evolution.

ty,
edmc2



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 01:16 AM
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Originally posted by UmbraSumus

Originally posted by edmc^2




If it takes a team of engineers, scientist and programers to 'create' a robot what would it take to 'create' a human body?



What would it take ? ........time.

If you have Variation

........................ Selection

........................... and Heredity

What would it take ? ........time.

If you have Variation

........................ Selection

........................... and Heredity

................................... you MUST get Evolution


To me it's more like:

................................... you MUST get Adaptation

ty,
edmc2



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 01:17 AM
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I probably shouldn't even get invlolved, but.... it's so hard to resist.

First off, one of the first responses in this thread summed it perfectly ( OnceReturned) . That should have been the end of the thread ( and kudos to OzWeatherman for appropriately identifying the argument of the OP immediately ). My other favorite response(s): yadda333. Zen vs circular reasoning. Love it.

Since the debate rages, here's my 2 cents:

Test: bogus.

Here's a wrench for the whole topic:

What if there wasn't a beginning. God, universe, conscienceness- the whole kitandkaboodle. What if it's all been around, in its everchanging state, for ever, with no end?

Now, I know the creationists wont have a problem with that in reference to God, but I'm suggesting the eternal aspect includes the Creator and the created, in fact, I'm suggesting the two are inseparable.

My view, and I do not claim this to be fact, just my feelings ( I know, logic only! Oh well, sue me! ) is that the physical universe, everything we've discovered and all that has yet to be discovered, is the physical manifestation of an infinite being commonly understood to be spirit. This being wanted to experience itself, in all of its infinite wonder, and thus the physcial universe came into being and developed( through EVOLUTION, the process ). Since there is no end to infinity, why would this process ever end? And since infinity goes both ways on the timeline, why does it need a beginning?

Yeah, I know. I'm going to hell AND I have no proof.



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 01:19 AM
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reply to post by edmc^2
 


So thats why babies get backed over by cars and die months after being born due to genetic deformitys??? Why little girls who pray to god every night are viciously raped by their parents and relatives? Why children drown during baptisms?

....Because of the sin of man? How neatly you wipe your precious prayer awnsering diease curing evil smiting god of all guilt.

It wouldnt be because this god of yours doesnt exist would it?

i can only hope the pain of those who have suffered without relief who you labeled deserving and sinfull is laid upon your back.

[edit on 18-7-2010 by Wertdagf]



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 01:25 AM
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reply to post by Nyrossius Maxim
 


i could agree with u one of my hypothesis is that everything is infinite including size mass and time...our solar system could be an atom being viewed through a microscope..

our universe could be an amoeba amongst other amoebas for a universe so much larger and since we are on this scale we can only percieve what we can see



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 01:26 AM
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Originally posted by hippomchippo
The OP changed gears from evolution is false and I can prove it to, well okay but the universe is so complex it HAD to have had a creator.
More arguments from ignorance.
I don't understand how the universe could have formed naturally, therefore a supernatural being did it.
THAT is the illogical reasoning of this thread.


"I don't understand how the universe could have formed naturally, therefore a supernatural being did it."

But we do have a concept of how the universe had a beginning based on true science.
And we can observe the awesomeness and the majesty of the universe. Only someone who will not admit that it had a beginning is not able to see the intelligence behind it.

btw,
don't forget "complex" but in total harmony - like a symphony or a valley.

Highly organized - proof of someone who has total control of his creations.

Not choatic like the theory of evolution - where chance or accident are the guiding force of exixtence.



ty,



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 01:29 AM
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Originally posted by edmc^2
To me it's more like:

................................... you MUST get Adaptation



Evolution is the change in the gene frequency of a population.

Adaptation is when a population becomes better suited to it's habitat.

[edit on 18-7-2010 by PieKeeper]

[edit on 18-7-2010 by PieKeeper]



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 01:31 AM
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Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by edmc^2
 


So thats why babies get backed over by cars and die months after being born due to genetic deformitys??? Why little girls who pray to god every night are viciously raped by their parents and relatives? Why children drown during baptisms?

....Because of the sin of man? How neatly you wipe your precious prayer awnsering diease curing evil smiting god of all guilt.

It wouldnt be because this god of yours doesnt exist would it?

i can only hope the pain of those who have suffered without relief who you labeled deserving and sinfull is laid upon your back.

[edit on 18-7-2010 by Wertdagf]


I'd like to explain this in detail sometime since the subject at hand is evolution based illogic thinking. But if you want me to expain now then let me know.

Fair warning.

ty,



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 01:37 AM
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reply to post by edmc^2
 


What id like you do is remove the pitifull dependance you and your ilk have on a magical wish granting genie. So i dont have to watch them drop like flies. As if feeling the way i do will matter.......

i need to take a break, pardon me while i burst.....



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 01:46 AM
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Originally posted by Nyrossius Maxim
I probably shouldn't even get invlolved, but.... it's so hard to resist.

First off, one of the first responses in this thread summed it perfectly ( OnceReturned) . That should have been the end of the thread ( and kudos to OzWeatherman for appropriately identifying the argument of the OP immediately ). My other favorite response(s): yadda333. Zen vs circular reasoning. Love it.

Since the debate rages, here's my 2 cents:

Test: bogus.

Here's a wrench for the whole topic:

What if there wasn't a beginning. God, universe, conscienceness- the whole kitandkaboodle. What if it's all been around, in its everchanging state, for ever, with no end?

Now, I know the creationists wont have a problem with that in reference to God, but I'm suggesting the eternal aspect includes the Creator and the created, in fact, I'm suggesting the two are inseparable.

My view, and I do not claim this to be fact, just my feelings ( I know, logic only! Oh well, sue me! ) is that the physical universe, everything we've discovered and all that has yet to be discovered, is the physical manifestation of an infinite being commonly understood to be spirit. This being wanted to experience itself, in all of its infinite wonder, and thus the physcial universe came into being and developed( through EVOLUTION, the process ). Since there is no end to infinity, why would this process ever end? And since infinity goes both ways on the timeline, why does it need a beginning?

Yeah, I know. I'm going to hell AND I have no proof.


Thanks for the post.

First off, who told you are going to "hell"? If this is the "fieryhell you're talking about, don't worry - it does not exist.
Hell or sheol in the Bible is just the pit - the grave.

As for your fellow evolutionist - how many are you here? I lost count, but I'm glad that you are all here.

you sadi: "This being wanted to experience itself, in all of its infinite wonder, and thus the physcial universe came into being".

More accurately, it was Love that motivated him to bring things into existence so that we too can experience what it is to be alive. Sadly, majority of mankind rejected their Creator.

You said: "And since infinity goes both ways on the timeline, why does it need a beginning?" I agree with that statement. In fact this was God's original plan (still is).

Notice this:
“[God] will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more.”—REV. 21:4.

The Scriptures show that the Creator planted the desire for everlasting life deep within the human consciousness right from the very start, from the time he created the first human couple. “Time indefinite [God] has put in their heart,” says the Bible.—Ecclesiastes 3:11.

To fulfill that desire to live forever, however, the first human pair had to accept God’s authority to decide what is right and what is wrong. Had they done so, Jehovah would have judged them to be worthy of life “to time indefinite” in the home that he had prepared for them, the garden of Eden.—Genesis 2:8; 3:22.

Makes sense?

As for evolution - there's no future - only evolving until life ends - bitterly.

ty,



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 01:49 AM
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reply to post by edmc^2
 


I have read every post in this thread so far and I just have one question for the OP.

When exactly do you plan on revealing your proof that evolution is based on illogical reasoning?



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 01:52 AM
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Originally posted by FritosBBQTwist
How does believing in evolution disprove a creator??

Not that I believe in one or not...just curious.

Oh wait, nevermind. This is just another stereotypical thread guided towards people with incomplete beliefs, made from someone with such a belief themselves.


Because evolution is not compatible with creation for many claim that creation is not scientific.

Consider this: as soon as you say you believe in Creation, evolution will break down. vise versa.

ty,

signing off...

[edit on 18-7-2010 by edmc^2]



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 02:04 AM
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I believe in the Creator....

But did you know that the Creator was Created?

In fact the Creator's Creator was Created.

And also the Creator's Creator's Creator was Created.

And in fact this continues thru a lineage of exactly eleven Created Creators.

The twelve Creator...the original old-school Creator...he wasn't created.

....He evolved

I know...go figure?



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 02:15 AM
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reply to post by edmc^2
 


I am assuming you're talking about the Judeo-Christian God. That being said, I highly recommend checking out the Books of Enoch. Even if you don't, your God resembles a being with an ego, not much different than us, only immensley (infinitely
) greater. Your God is a jealous god who once commanded His chosen people to commit genocide on more than one occasion. It is this perception of God that makes the whole Nephilim/Sitchin/Enoch thing so interesting.

Just to clarify: I do believe in the Infinite- everythingthateverwasisandeverwillbe on Spiritual level. The Source. All that exists, the physical manifestation- all of creation in all the possible dimensions is a reflection of this spiritual/energetic idea. The Judeo-Christian God, while claiming to be the real deal and infinite, still possesses an ego, which would be silly for the Infinite. I believe the deity described in the Bible was most likely a different being, no noubt very powerfull being, usurping the title of God.

To further clarify: evolution, it's existence, is not up for debate. It has been observed and proven to exist and occurr. Your argument has been correctly identified as the Watchmaker argument, and I recommend reading Christopher Dawkins book The God Delusion. He does a much better job of dissecting the argument than I could ever do. Even as a believer, you should read it so that you know what the "logical" argument behind evolution actually is.

The question really is metaphysical, not scientifiic. edmc^2, I do believe that "Love" helped shape creation. But, the Infinite God, which I don't even like having a label ( because labels somwhat limit, and "God" has no limit ), is far too complex to summarize by any single religion or faith. Those of us who seek answers, will never find them all. And really, that topic is for a completely different thread.



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 02:19 AM
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Originally posted by edmc^2
How does believing in evolution disprove a creator??

...

Because evolution is not compatible with creation for many claim that creation is not scientific.

Consider this: as soon as you say you believe in Creation, evolution will break down. vise versa.

[edit on 18-7-2010 by edmc^2]



Not even at all.

It just puts it in a different perspective. Evolutionists say that the universe started with a Big Bang. Why can't the Creator have created the Big Bang? Just because one believes in a Creator doesn't mean they can't believe in Science and Reason too. personally, I think they go hand in hand. I think we're too perfect to not have been created, but, that the Creator is not some interventionist - as the Deists said, the Creator is merely a Clockmaker, who creates the clock, sets it, then lets it do it's own thing... we were designed, then left to our own devices.

Just a theory, but, I think it makes the most sense. Too much supernatural for there not to be something weird going on, but, there is too much scientific evidence proving evolution (or something like it.)

[edit on 7/18/2010 by spacekc929]

[edit on 7/18/2010 by spacekc929]



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 03:48 AM
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Any Creationists care to explain where this Creator came from? Isn't that the heart of the problem: neither knowing how the Source of all Creation came to be?



posted on Jul, 18 2010 @ 03:54 AM
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Originally posted by edmc^2

Originally posted by SinsMayburn
I don't have enough time to read all of the replies, but Im sure there are a few intelligent ATS'ers here saying the right thing. Reasoning is something that you learn, whether through experience or teaching. If your teaching deals with a biased towards creation, your reasoning will be damaged. This is very faulty reasoning. You ask us to answer a question with a set of predetermined answers... that you made. And then you interrupt answering for US. An answer that is quite strange really.

The fact that you say it is impossible for complex designs to happen by chance is irrational. For that specific statement, you cannot prove. But for your following theory, creation, is in place for being proven. So your job is to prove creation. This silly antic did nothing but bring your input of creation without any proof.

[edit on 17-7-2010 by SinsMayburn]


Then by all means answer the question the way you see fit. Don't use the
"predetermined answers... that I (you) made.

So my question - let's pick one: Microprocessor.

We both agree that a microprossesor was made by someone which is a fact. But on the same token, a brain does not require a maker?

Why is that?

I await your answer.

ty,
edmc2

I don't have the time to read everything else, but the brain is biological, therefore it CAN and does evolve. A microprocessor is not, and therefore does not evolve (by itself)- we do make in evolve however.




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